Let me make it clear; the Treeza Rant thread

AndrasAndras Shipmate
Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

I know it's a fine judgement, as there have been a few right idiots - and some frankly nasty ones - holding down the job in the past, but I've now got to the stage that I turn off the news rather than listen to her obfuscations.

Though in fairness to her, the rest of her party seem even worse, which perhaps is why she's still there. God save us all!
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Comments

  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    Yes. There's the nincompoop who landed us in this mess to begin with, for starters. (Yes Mr Cameron, I am looking at YOU).
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    I have no remit to support Mrs. May. Yet I agree that whoever took on the role of Conservative Party leader/PM was doomed to failure and criticism. Had she been me I would have given up and resigned long ago. To me the overarching tragedy in this whole sordid Brexit affair is the way in which an attempt by Cameron to "see off" the Eurosceptic wing of his own party has led to a situation in which the whole country is likely to suffer. My personal view is (and always has been) that, once the vote had gone through, an All-party Group should have been set up to oversee Brexit, rather than allow the tensions of Government and pretensions of certain individuals to govern its progress.
  • I agree, it's just a horrible pig's ear. I fear for the future. The sooner she goes the better - so we can have an election and not to get that other idiot with the hair or the idiot with the double-barrelled name.
    But, hang on, isn't Treeza a Christian?! (That's not a thinly-veiled have-a-go at Christians, just a full-on-go at one Christian.)
    Unfortunately, as I see it, our good friend Corbyn should be having a real field day but he's not, not really. I can only think he's holding his fire. But he's also a Brexit person, so, as you say, 'GOD save us all'.
    Any chance of an all-party group when this lot fails?
    Apologies that this is not a post in the style of Hell.
  • Andras wrote: »
    Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

    Yes. Blair, for instance, was a sanctimonious, two-faced lying toerag that destroyed Iraq and destabilised the entire Middle East, leading to millions of deaths. Struggling to cope with leading the country through the insoluble problems of Brexit while also trying to hold together a party that's at war with itself is hardly in the same league.
  • I agree, it's just a horrible pig's ear. I fear for the future. The sooner she goes the better - so we can have an election

    What difference would an election make, other than to get a different set of fingerprints on the pig's ear?
  • Probably naively, hoping that Labour will come out to stay in, having done their research to discover a change in the country. As someone said 'the only good Brexit is a no Brexit'.
  • As was said (by a Tory, about a Tory PM back in the fifties) "S/He is the best prime minister we've got". It says all that needed to be said about the Conservative Party that having won the referendum the Leave campaign could conjure up a PM to lead the country out of the EU. Then again, Mrs May's not there to lead Britain out nor keep Britain in: Fuck Britain, just so long as the Tory Party remains united, that's all that matters.
  • I think Mrs May is mediocre, but probably that is why she is PM. She has the unfortunate habit of lying, but that is normal for politicians. And obviously, the civil war in the Tories is peaking, so they are ungovernable. The tragedy is that the whole country has been sucked into their psychodrama.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    I agree that Cameron takes the award for getting us into the mess in the first place and May is in an impossible position. But she keeps maintaining that it's not impossible, and every opportunity for an unforced error that has come her way she has grasped with both hands.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    I agree that Cameron takes the award for getting us into the mess in the first place and May is in an impossible position. But she keeps maintaining that it's not impossible, and every opportunity for an unforced error that has come her way she has grasped with both hands.

    True.

    Much of the current mess is as a result of her bad calls. She invoked Article 50 before deciding what she wanted ... Drew a load of red lines before negotiations kicked off ... Had terrible advisers ... Played to the Brexiteer gallery instead of reaching out to moderates ... Appointed that thing as foreign secretary ... Called a snap election when there was no need then allied herself with the DUP ...

    Ironically, if they'd gone for EEA / EFTA like Vote Leave implied they would during the Ref we'd have left the EU by now and be getting on with our lives.

    I'll see you all on the March tomorrow. :wink:
  • I blame my wife for all this - it's her birthday on March 29th.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    O! I hope you haven't told her that!
    :fearful:

    But, despite Mrs. May's faults and failings, I do have a teensy-weensy drop of sympathy for her, and her impossible-to-solve-sensibly predicament.

    That prat Cameron - the one with a face like a bare buttock with two glass eyes stuck on it - really needs to be sent post-haste to Siberia, or somewhere equally unpleasant.

    My dear sister, bless her, is currently assembling documents for herself, myself, and our brother, to submit to the Government of the Republic of Ireland - we are entitled (via our mother and maternal grandfather) to Irish nationality.

    At least we will still be able to call ourselves Europeans, as this abandoned off-shore island sinks beneath the waves it once thought it ruled. Alas, it'll be a long ferry crossing from Dublin to Calais with nowt in between....or maybe we'll be able to stop off in Kernow, Cymru, or Alba....
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    (Here's a fey and whimsical thought - if 'England' were to be Sunk Without Trace And Done Away With, there'd be an interesting archipelago off the west coast of Europe - I wonder what it might be called, and whether the islands would have separate governments, or perhaps be linked with the EU in some sort of Federation?

    Alba and Ireland would be big enough to cope, but Kernow and Cymru might need some back-up.)
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus

    My dear sister, bless her, is currently assembling documents for herself, myself, and our brother, to submit to the Government of the Republic of Ireland - we are entitled (via our mother and maternal grandfather) to Irish nationality.

    If there is one growth industry, it’s Irish citizenship....

    I already have the shamrock lifebelt. Friends of mine (born in Ireland) are busy getting theirs, and their children (born in England) have or will apply. And these are the senior doctors, teachers, experts and creatives that any sensible country would be trying to retain. Others I know are already working abroad, and hope to use their employment and residency to gain citizenship of other European countries.

    Mind you, Lord North lost us the American colonies, and look at the hell of a mess that’s ended up in.


  • :lol:

    My sister tells me that the Irish Republic's Department of Foreign Affairs website has recently become much more user-friendly than before, presumably because of the number clamouring for the Shamrock Lifebelt....
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    Dafyd wrote: »
    I agree that Cameron takes the award for getting us into the mess in the first place and May is in an impossible position. But she keeps maintaining that it's not impossible, and every opportunity for an unforced error that has come her way she has grasped with both hands.

    True.

    Much of the current mess is as a result of her bad calls. She invoked Article 50 before deciding what she wanted ... Drew a load of red lines before negotiations kicked off ... Had terrible advisers ... Played to the Brexiteer gallery instead of reaching out to moderates ... Appointed that thing as foreign secretary ... Called a snap election when there was no need then allied herself with the DUP ...

    Ironically, if they'd gone for EEA / EFTA like Vote Leave implied they would during the Ref we'd have left the EU by now and be getting on with our lives.

    Pretty much this. Also, in answer to the “she’s in an impossible situation” defence - yes she is, but she put herself there. She must have known the tensions in the party over the EU and that Brexit was only likely to make them worse. And she chose to put herself right in the middle of them, either out of hubris (“I can solve these!”) or blindness to them.

    And so many of her decisions, not least the triggering of Article 50 when she, the government and the country were nowhere near ready for it, and the stupid, stupid decision to call an entirely unnecessary general election, have made things worse for her, her party and the country.

    I do try to be sympathetic to people, even people who’ve got themselves in a right mess, but I’m struggling here.

  • Well, yes. She's made her bed, but the rest of us have to lie on it with her. What a horrid thought.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    I already have the shamrock lifebelt.
    I qualify, but have reluctantly decided that maintaining two passports is complicated (and expensive) enough, let alone three.

  • I'm heading for the same second passport as Euty. (I'm waiting until I become eligible to apply on the basis of marriage to a French citizen or I would have done it already.)

    Treeza's government is a fiasco. Trouble is that I'm not sure if there's anyone else on the horizon who could do a better job.
  • I blame my wife for all this - it's her birthday on March 29th.

    You can blame me down in the Antipodes as well.

    :wink:
  • Got my Netherlands nationality 18 months ago. Filled in some boxes on two sides of A4, paid my €184 and hey presto! Brexit insurance.
  • Forgot to say...

    I can't imagine what it feels like needing to get Brexit Insurance in the form of EU passports. So sorry for you.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    I'm stuffed. Born of Brits, and married a Brit born of Brits. I could possibly swing an Israeli passport, but in the circumstances, that's a bit of a frying pan and fire scenario.

    I shall just have to qualify for citizenship of elsewhere in the usual fashion (clinging to the underside of an outbound lorry).
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    I agree, it's just a horrible pig's ear. I fear for the future. The sooner she goes the better - so we can have an election and not to get that other idiot with the hair or the idiot with the double-barrelled name.
    But, hang on, isn't Treeza a Christian?! (That's not a thinly-veiled have-a-go at Christians, just a full-on-go at one Christian.)
    Unfortunately, as I see it, our good friend Corbyn should be having a real field day but he's not, not really. I can only think he's holding his fire. But he's also a Brexit person, so, as you say, 'GOD save us all'.
    Any chance of an all-party group when this lot fails?
    Apologies that this is not a post in the style of Hell.

    Well, she goes to church every week, and she chose When I survey as her final Desert Island disc.

    But both Mrs. Andras and I wonder how she can get through the General Confession week after week without her brain running out through her ears. Presumably it's all just words that 'don't apply to her,' like some Mafia boss who attends Mass religiously every week.
  • We cannot know what is going on in any church-goer's mind. There certainly is the possibility that she - and countless others - considers religion to be very "personal" and "private", with little connection to the wider world. But that's mere conjecture.
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host
    It is really difficult to know how you would define "worst PM". What we need at this time is someone strong and sensible. Against what is needed, she fails absymaly. I think, given that her predecessors second worst activity was fucking a pig, to actually be worse than that is quite an achievement.

    Yes she is worse. Because she is weak. And yes, there is no-one else in the party who wants to do the job (there are plenty who want it, for the kudos, they just don't want to actually do it. They are bone-idle to a man).

    I think John Major was probably the most moral PM we have had since I started to vote. And he was fucking one of his collegues. But all of the others have fucked the country.
  • I think, given that her predecessors second worst activity was fucking a pig, to actually be worse than that is quite an achievement.
    But, she considers the worst thing she has done is running through a field of wheat.

    Clearly far worse than presiding over a policy of hostility towards immigrants that has resulted in large numbers of people being illegally expelled from the country or prevented from returning home after short trips abroad, given encouragement to the even farther right neo-nazi thugs physically and verbally attacking those they don't like. Or, being senior member of a government that introduced a disastrous revision of the welfare state that has left people in the greatest need in this country without money to pay rent, buy food or heat their homes, and quite literally killed some of those people. Or, being a senior member of a government that starved the nation of the investment needed to maintain essential infrastructure and expand our economy leaving the nations post 2008 recovery lagging significantly behind our European partners and other nations that didn't apply such a stupidly strict austerity policy.

    On top of which her inept handling of a policy to leave the EU that hasn't received democratic support, either through Parliament or a proper referendum, relatively minor.
  • I doubt if her obituary in The Times will read quite like that....
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host
    Alan - I would agree - her lack of understanding of how badly she is doing (and has done) is part of how bad she is. She appears to think she is doing a good job. In the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

    She is even fialing at the one real job she has - to stop the Tory party falling apart.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Since when has the Tory party ever been together ?

    Banal, treacly-mouthed, self-seeking gobshites that they are....

    O, sorry - TIACW.
  • She is even fialing at the one real job she has - to stop the Tory party falling apart.
    The official policy of the Tory Party has moved from a commitment to full membership of the single market and customs union, and slightly uneasy membership of the EU, to not only leaving the EU but also the customs union and single market. The speed with which the Tory Party has shifted position has created significant fractures within the party that it will take someone of quite considerable political skill to repair, and simply pandering to the most vocal voices of one extreme of the party isn't the action of someone with the necessary political skill set. The only fact on her side is the considerable desire within the Tories to avoid a split, it's held the party together for a long time despite considerable differences of opinion within the party over Europe. Of course, that unity had been maintained in part by a tacit agreement to avoid any major discussion of Europe - papering over the cracks and brushing things under the carpet. An approach to maintaining unity that was destroyed as soon as Cameron decided that a referendum was a good idea.
  • I doubt if her obituary in The Times will read quite like that....
    I doubt I'll be asked to write her obituary, anywhere.
  • Well, quite - but it would at least be accurate.....
  • Neville Chamberlain is the worst British PM ever. Not only did he fail to re-arm in the face of Nazi aggression, but he completely failed to do anything about British possessions in SE Asia. By the time Churchill took over, it was too late for Malaya and the Japanese just waltzed on in. At the end of 1941, there were no British capital ships left in the Indian or Pacific Oceans, and the only American ones were steaming towards San Francisco. It was woeful neglect, born in part from the racist belief that the yellow man couldn't stand up to real soldiers.
  • Though, if that's correct then in 1939 the British military wouldn't have managed to do such things as develop a range of modern aircraft and built significant numbers (plus trained pilots); those Spitfires and Hurricanes wouldn't have been there to defeat the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain. Nor would the Royal Navy have had five brand new battleships or Illustrious class aircraft carriers, with substantial modernisation of older ships, nor a brand new naval base in Singapore (which was unassailable from the seaward side - the oversight being it was considered impossible to move significant forces rapidly through the jungle, and hence that side of the base was lacking in defensive infrastructure). And, the British army had been equipped with modern tanks and artillery. On top of which there had been considerable investment in building munitions factories to supply these new weapons.

    Chamberlain was undoubtedly wrong in expecting appeasement to maintain peace in Europe (if indeed he did, rather than simply seeing it as an opportunity to buy more time to prepare for the inevitable coming European war - because Britain certainly made good use of that time), and British military commanders made significant errors - both in anticipating German tactics in the Battle for France, and Japanese tactics and capabilities in SE Asia (for which racism would certainly have been a factor). But, it's very harsh to dismiss what Chamberlain achieved in preparing Britain and empire for the coming war.
  • Well, yes. She's made her bed, but the rest of us have to lie on it with her. What a horrid thought.

    You watched The Bodyguard yet?
  • Though, if that's correct then in 1939 the British military wouldn't have managed to do such things as develop a range of modern aircraft and built significant numbers (plus trained pilots); those Spitfires and Hurricanes wouldn't have been there to defeat the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain. Nor would the Royal Navy have had five brand new battleships or Illustrious class aircraft carriers, with substantial modernisation of older ships, nor a brand new naval base in Singapore (which was unassailable from the seaward side - the oversight being it was considered impossible to move significant forces rapidly through the jungle, and hence that side of the base was lacking in defensive infrastructure). And, the British army had been equipped with modern tanks and artillery. On top of which there had been considerable investment in building munitions factories to supply these new weapons.

    Chamberlain was undoubtedly wrong in expecting appeasement to maintain peace in Europe (if indeed he did, rather than simply seeing it as an opportunity to buy more time to prepare for the inevitable coming European war - because Britain certainly made good use of that time), and British military commanders made significant errors - both in anticipating German tactics in the Battle for France, and Japanese tactics and capabilities in SE Asia (for which racism would certainly have been a factor). But, it's very harsh to dismiss what Chamberlain achieved in preparing Britain and empire for the coming war.

    It's important to remember that Chamberlain wasn't alone in seeking appeasement. The ennobled members of his party were, if they could be, even worse. Many of them, like the Royal family would have been entirely happy with a Nazi Government. It's a very good job that Edward VIII chucked it in when he did.
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host
    So weeza today "95% of the agreement is there".

    It is like my India team: "We have done 90% of the coding" - that would be the easy bit, the bit that should have taken 10% of the time it did. And the last 10% will take 90% of the time.

    We have been arguing about the Irish problem for a year and are no nearer sorting it. She is putting paint on the Titanic.
  • The fundamental problem is that she gives every single possible impression of believing her own bullshit, making her incapable of detecting the same quality in the utterances of those around and to the right of her. This is dragging the rest of us into that particular substance with her.

    The leader of the opposition appears, meanwhile, to have forgotten what his job is and why he is in parliament. The dance they are doing deserves some scrutiny too.
  • Just saw 5 minutes of the Commons, a very depressing picture. The lack of clarity on all sides makes it look like some arcane lunatic asylum, where everyone speaks in backwards English. Brexit seems to grind people down into very fine particles, which are indecipherable.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    Meanwhile, we seem remarkably sanguine about throwing Gibraltar under the bus.
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host
    The fundamental problem is that she gives every single possible impression of believing her own bullshit, making her incapable of detecting the same quality in the utterances of those around and to the right of her. This is dragging the rest of us into that particular substance with her.

    Yep. Actually, my India team suffers the same problem.
    The leader of the opposition appears, meanwhile, to have forgotten what his job is and why he is in parliament. The dance they are doing deserves some scrutiny too.

    He wants Brexit too. So cannot oppose it. Which is his job. He is so frustrating.

    Gibralter seems to be irrelevant, but will also cause problems. As will a whole raft of other problems. It is like some of the software I have seen produced. Utterly unfit for purpose, and yet with Brexit we are still hurling headlong for the shit-pit.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    According to a survey reported in the Guardian some ten days ago, there is a high correlation between membership of the CoE and support for Brexit.

    Mind you, I've also read that a lot of CoE members also believe that Treeza is a model of what a good Christian should be like.
  • Pardon the ignorance from down here, but are there issues unique to Gibraltar? I am guessing border issues...but are there others? Just curious as it was mentioned above.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    Gibraltar (99% remain) is entirely dependent on its Spanish border for everything.

    The Spanish would quite like Gib back, thank you very much, and the only thing that allows the UK to hold into the territory is that Spain can't blockade another EU country.

    After March, that's not going to be the case, and I absolutely guarantee Spain will gradually ratchet up the border checks until they strangle Gibraltar into submission.
  • Thank you. Very interesting.
  • CallanCallan Shipmate
    Andras wrote: »
    Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

    Yes. Blair, for instance, was a sanctimonious, two-faced lying toerag that destroyed Iraq and destabilised the entire Middle East, leading to millions of deaths. Struggling to cope with leading the country through the insoluble problems of Brexit while also trying to hold together a party that's at war with itself is hardly in the same league.

    Because of course, without Tony Blair, the Americans would never have dreamed of invading Iraq and the various factions in Iraq would not have dreamed of going after one another.

    The correct action for the UK in 2003 would have been what Harold Wilson did in the sixties when he regretfully explained to LBJ that he would have loved to commit troops to Vietnam, but unfortunately the British Armed Forces were washing their hair that evening. He deserves considerable blame for not doing that.

    But the idea that Blair is personally responsible for the state of the Middle East is facile nonsense.

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    No, he - and those who supported him - share responsibility with the US for the ratcheting up of hostilities, for no gain.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    edited October 2018
    Nobody has mentioned Margaret Thatcher. Treeza may be anything but strong and stable but Thatcher was the other way round. Brought the country to its knees because she wanted to. There has never been a worse PM.
    Trying to work out a Cameron/pigs ear joke but failing.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    Nobody has mentioned Margaret Thatcher. Treeza may be anything but strong and stable but Thatcher was the other way round. Brought the country to its knees because she wanted to. There has never been a worse PM.

    Agreed. But Cameron’s actions in calling for a referendum may be even more damaging long term.

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