The whole lot of them are like bloody King Canute, ordering back the tide of no deal Brexit.
Back to gibbering. Going back to BF’s suggestion, I’m not a big fan of whisky, but there is a nice bottle of ARMAGNAC in our alcohol stash that might ease the pain a bit…
She is a serious danger to this country in a way that no other PM has been in my lifetime - or, perhaps, ever before.
More than Cameron, whose brilliant idea to hold a non-binding referendum that turns out to somehow be binding got y'all into this mess in the first place?
IMO yes. Cameron was stupid, misguided, assumed he would win anything he wanted. Dangerous in any position of power, and yes, responsible for the chaos we are in.
May has no regard for the democratic process. She is racist and determined to achieve her aims - stopping immigration - at any cost to anyone and anything. She has a saviour complex (like Corbyn, but more psychotic). Cameron was just arrogant and entitled.
If she quits now and triggers a leadership election in the Tory Party then we will pass the end of March and leave the EU without a deal, and without a government in place to do anything to prepare or react to the new situation. Though, being without a government in that situation may be preferable to the shower we have at the moment. So ... if she can hold off until we've passed the point where quitting won't be the final shove off the cliff edge that would be fine as far as I'm concerned.
It looks like the blasted deal will come back next week and will fail again next week.
Meanwhile the only way that A50 could be rescinded would be for the government to propose a change in legislation.
So even though there is a clear majority against hard brexit, when push comes to shove and all other options have been exhausted, the PM can just say "nope", allow No Deal, call a GE and piss off to her shed to write her memoirs.
We are held ransom by a small group of people in single figures, and there is feck all that anyone can do about it.
Riots won't change the minds of the politicians. They will just be all heartbroken about it, from the safety and security of their police protected houses.
And all sorts will just argue that they warned about this.
And nothing will change. Untill the career politicians with no clue are thrown out.
But personally - I think we are in the cess pit very deep and we are going to drown.
It is all a Circus with Jacob Rees-Mogg as ring master. Essentially the vote last night only puts a moral duty on the PM. It is none binding. Looking at how they have run the country as a whole they don’t appear to have bothered to much about morals so far.
A while back there was an article in the Graduian making this very point. If the French had been pushed into this situation by their political leaders, they would have been in the streets months ago clamouring and building barricades (behold the gilets jaunes, some of whose grievances are legitimate, but who have taken to the streets for considerably less than the Brexit sh*tshow, IMO). That the British haven’t taken to the streets in a spirit of vociferous, furious protest says a lot about our national character. That and what many (most?) British people see as the grim, crushing inevitability of the whole thing.
Yes - I said the same last night to Mr Boogs. How very British for leavers and remainders to have a flag waving party outside the HoC. It gives me a wry smile.
Yes - I said the same last night to Mr Boogs. How very British for leavers and remainders to have a flag waving party outside the HoC. It gives me a wry smile.
Your post sets out very well why I think that the UK should not have joined the EEC in the first place - and why de Gaulle's "Non" a decade before correctly judged the position. I'd still say though that having joined, the UK should now remain.
Some suggested that in the absence of a deal the supply chain frrom the Continent may be broken come March 30th so they are stocking up on essentials like canned foods, flour, marge and convenience foods.
I shall be stocking up on hard cash. March 29th is a Friday. It is the last working day of the month and the last day of the financial year for a lot of businesses. Many businesses, including banks, will have a shedload of processing to do in any event, plus a whole lot more that can't be done in advance of leaving the EU, nor for very long after. It will be a very busy weekend for financial IT systems. I'm not expecting ATMs and debit/credit cards to work for about a week.
Some suggested that in the absence of a deal the supply chain frrom the Continent may be broken come March 30th so they are stocking up on essentials like canned foods, flour, marge and convenience foods.
I shall be stocking up on hard cash. March 29th is a Friday. It is the last working day of the month and the last day of the financial year for a lot of businesses. Many businesses, including banks, will have a shedload of processing to do in any event, plus a whole lot more that can't be done in advance of leaving the EU, nor for very long after. It will be a very busy weekend for financial IT systems. I'm not expecting ATMs and debit/credit cards to work for about a week.
I don't know what to think now. Emotionally it feels like No Deal is nearly inevitable and that it would now be a monumental task for any other result.
It's Wales v Ireland, there are 10 minutes left and Wales are 9 points down, encamped on their 22.
It's Pelennor Fields, the outer wall has been breached, and Aragorn is nowhere to be seen. Denethor has set fire to himself and thrown himself off the White Tower, and the Nazgul are in full flight.
I'm looking hopefully out for Theoden-King and his Rohirrim, but we're down to the wire.
It's the same planet (not this one) where her deal is the "will of the people" when the people have not been asked directly, either through a referendum or a general election.
"She is mean. She is rude. She is cruel. She is stupid. I have heard that from almost everyone who has dealt with her,"
"On Monday afternoon, Commonwealth Day, Theresa May read a Bible passage in Westminster Abbey. "The eye cannot say to the hand, 'I have no need of you.' Nor again the head to the feet, 'I have no need of you.'" It was Paul's letter to the Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 21.
I suppose it is fairly obvious, but it appears that Mrs May's primary focus is on the UKIP element in the Tory party, which in general is totally obsessed with immigration.
To the extent that it makes zero sense. The current plans appear to be to reduce the numbers of Eastern European workers but to make it easier for people to come to work from other parts of the world.
Are they then going to complain about these groups of migrants "taking over" the country and using social security?
As I said some months back, a big part of the Brexit strategy is just get it over the line... They know that rejoining the EU is much more difficult than stopping Brexit and hence it's that desperate stage that we're down to. And to Hell with the consequences.
Theresa May for all her failings - and she has many - is not in that camp. No, she's just pandered to and tried to appease them. She is a Vichy-Brexiteer.
Vichy? What have carrots got to do with it?
Seriously she does seem to be chained to the ERG. She is also under the thumb of the Unioists. Either she is stupid or enjoys punishment.
I think it is just about party political power. It is more important to retain the keys to Downing Street than anything else.
Certainly it’s about keeping the keys to No. 10 - but I think that even the Tory Party is just another one of those things Treeza is willing to trash in the interests of her personal power. Sod the Union, sod Gibraltar, sod UK citizens living in Europe, sod the devolved administrations, sod everything just as long as she’s still PM. We’re in thrall to an antidemocratic, racist idiot.
He's making sure his position is well-founded on precedent: Treeza cannot bring back the same proposal again in this session - ie until the new Parliamentary Session begins in May.
A while back there was an article in the Graduian making this very point. If the French had been pushed into this situation by their political leaders, they would have been in the streets months ago clamouring and building barricades (behold the gilets jaunes, some of whose grievances are legitimate, but who have taken to the streets for considerably less than the Brexit sh*tshow, IMO). That the British haven’t taken to the streets in a spirit of vociferous, furious protest says a lot about our national character. That and what many (most?) British people see as the grim, crushing inevitability of the whole thing.
I was thinking the same thing about France vs the UK in this situation. May and her minions* are just very lucky that the British are so very...British.
* I haven't seen pictures of her MPs. Are they as yellow and dorky as I imagine?
Spot on analysis there on the basis of having just started to watch.
He is a windbag but he's right. Parliament's rules mean the government can't keep bringing exactly the same proposition to MPs in an attempt to bully them into voting for it in the same session.
Although it might have been helpful if he'd pointed that out explictly last week, there is an argument that if May's government was even vaguely competent, they wouldn't have adopted "keep trying our luck" as a strategy.
There are workarounds. If the next version of the deal is different, then it should be allowed. (This depends on the EU though). Or they can end this session of Parliament and start again. This would enable them to bring forward MV3. The same amendment can be submitted again provided the original motion is different. So there further chances for votes another Ref, indicative votes, a customs union etc.
All we need now is for the EU to tell us where to stick our extension request ... We are so screwed ... Thank you MPs everywhere.
Spot on analysis there on the basis of having just started to watch.
He is a windbag but he's right. Parliament's rules mean the government can't keep bringing exactly the same proposition to MPs in an attempt to bully them into voting for it in the same session.
Although it might have been helpful if he'd pointed that out explictly last week, there is an argument that if May's government was even vaguely competent, they wouldn't have adopted "keep trying our luck" as a strategy.
There are workarounds. If the next version of the deal is different, then it should be allowed. (This depends on the EU though). Or they can end this session of Parliament and start again. This would enable them to bring forward MV3. The same amendment can be submitted again provided the original motion is different. So there further chances for votes another Ref, indicative votes, a customs union etc.
All we need now is for the EU to tell us where to stick our extension request ... We are so screwed ... Thank you MPs everywhere.
I think it is going to be very difficult for him to allow amendments which call for referenda etc now as well.
Ancient Rome would, in these circumstances, appoint a Dictator for a 6 month term.
I would suggest the Lord Vetinari. With special advisors, Sir Humphrey Appleby and Niccolo Machiavelli.
Ancient Rome would, in these circumstances, appoint a Dictator for a 6 month term.
I would suggest the Lord Vetinari. With special advisors, Sir Humphrey Appleby
I suspect Sir Humphrey would have been a Flexciter (though he has since fallen out with the Norths).
He may be verbose but Bercow as at least stopped us going round in circles. Treeza is being pushed into a corner. Beware though a cornered wolf will attack.
Spot on analysis there on the basis of having just started to watch.
He is a windbag but he's right. Parliament's rules mean the government can't keep bringing exactly the same proposition to MPs in an attempt to bully them into voting for it in the same session.
Although it might have been helpful if he'd pointed that out explictly last week, there is an argument that if May's government was even vaguely competent, they wouldn't have adopted "keep trying our luck" as a strategy.
There are workarounds. If the next version of the deal is different, then it should be allowed. (This depends on the EU though). Or they can end this session of Parliament and start again. This would enable them to bring forward MV3. The same amendment can be submitted again provided the original motion is different. So there further chances for votes another Ref, indicative votes, a customs union etc.
All we need now is for the EU to tell us where to stick our extension request ... We are so screwed ... Thank you MPs everywhere.
I think it is going to be very difficult for him to allow amendments which call for referenda etc now as well.
Provided the original motions are different, it looks like the same amendment can be submitted repeatedly. But who knows ...
We have the Civil Contingencies Act which enables the sitting PM to virtually declare martial law in the case of emergency.
Presumably we are heading towards no deal brexit, the default, or withdrawing A50. In either case there will be unrest. Whether this unrest will be significant enough to be called a civil contingency will be according to the judgement of the sitting PM.
Comments
Back to gibbering. Going back to BF’s suggestion, I’m not a big fan of whisky, but there is a nice bottle of ARMAGNAC in our alcohol stash that might ease the pain a bit…
IMO yes. Cameron was stupid, misguided, assumed he would win anything he wanted. Dangerous in any position of power, and yes, responsible for the chaos we are in.
May has no regard for the democratic process. She is racist and determined to achieve her aims - stopping immigration - at any cost to anyone and anything. She has a saviour complex (like Corbyn, but more psychotic). Cameron was just arrogant and entitled.
Maylevolent has to know that absolutely everyone in the country is begging her to just go.
Pity she can't do that any more. Queen Victoria's great-great-grandaughter might, even at her age, have a better notion up her sleeve.
Meanwhile the only way that A50 could be rescinded would be for the government to propose a change in legislation.
So even though there is a clear majority against hard brexit, when push comes to shove and all other options have been exhausted, the PM can just say "nope", allow No Deal, call a GE and piss off to her shed to write her memoirs.
We are held ransom by a small group of people in single figures, and there is feck all that anyone can do about it.
Riot in the streets?
Even a riot needs a) time and b) leverage. Unfortunately there is very little time even to organise a riot.
And the government could metaphorically baracade itself inside for the duration - leading to No Deal however much burned outside.
And all sorts will just argue that they warned about this.
And nothing will change. Untill the career politicians with no clue are thrown out.
But personally - I think we are in the cess pit very deep and we are going to drown.
Your post sets out very well why I think that the UK should not have joined the EEC in the first place - and why de Gaulle's "Non" a decade before correctly judged the position. I'd still say though that having joined, the UK should now remain.
I shall be stocking up on hard cash. March 29th is a Friday. It is the last working day of the month and the last day of the financial year for a lot of businesses. Many businesses, including banks, will have a shedload of processing to do in any event, plus a whole lot more that can't be done in advance of leaving the EU, nor for very long after. It will be a very busy weekend for financial IT systems. I'm not expecting ATMs and debit/credit cards to work for about a week.
Now that really would bring the crowds out!
It's Wales v Ireland, there are 10 minutes left and Wales are 9 points down, encamped on their 22.
I'm looking hopefully out for Theoden-King and his Rohirrim, but we're down to the wire.
Somehow, alas, I doubt if any brave Hobbits are about to save us from the Darkness of Sauron.....
Anyone seen Gandalf lately, BTW?
(Apologies to all for whom LOTR is a crock of cacky....)
The motion yesterday said that if a plan was passed by the HoC next week (I think) they'd ask for an extension till June.
I think that's right.
I saw what you did there. Naughty, naughty.
The last refuge of a scoundrel, I seem to remember.
Oscar Wilde (of course) had an equally pithy comment:
'Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.'
She really is deluded.
De Spiegel has a character piece up in which they don't exactly hold back:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/theresa-may-s-brexit-disaster-a-1258101.html
"She is mean. She is rude. She is cruel. She is stupid. I have heard that from almost everyone who has dealt with her,"
"On Monday afternoon, Commonwealth Day, Theresa May read a Bible passage in Westminster Abbey. "The eye cannot say to the hand, 'I have no need of you.' Nor again the head to the feet, 'I have no need of you.'" It was Paul's letter to the Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 21.
Perhaps May recognized herself. "
That intellectual leap is, I suspect, one she has failed to complete.
To the extent that it makes zero sense. The current plans appear to be to reduce the numbers of Eastern European workers but to make it easier for people to come to work from other parts of the world.
Are they then going to complain about these groups of migrants "taking over" the country and using social security?
Of course they are.
Not me - Facebook meme.
Theresa May for all her failings - and she has many - is not in that camp. No, she's just pandered to and tried to appease them. She is a Vichy-Brexiteer.
Am I the first to coin that?
AFZ
Seriously she does seem to be chained to the ERG. She is also under the thumb of the Unioists. Either she is stupid or enjoys punishment.
Certainly it’s about keeping the keys to No. 10 - but I think that even the Tory Party is just another one of those things Treeza is willing to trash in the interests of her personal power. Sod the Union, sod Gibraltar, sod UK citizens living in Europe, sod the devolved administrations, sod everything just as long as she’s still PM. We’re in thrall to an antidemocratic, racist idiot.
He's making sure his position is well-founded on precedent: Treeza cannot bring back the same proposal again in this session - ie until the new Parliamentary Session begins in May.
Snookered!
Which allows himself the final say with no necessity to explain exactly how he is making decisions.
I was thinking the same thing about France vs the UK in this situation. May and her minions* are just very lucky that the British are so very...British.
* I haven't seen pictures of her MPs. Are they as yellow and dorky as I imagine?
He is a windbag but he's right. Parliament's rules mean the government can't keep bringing exactly the same proposition to MPs in an attempt to bully them into voting for it in the same session.
Although it might have been helpful if he'd pointed that out explictly last week, there is an argument that if May's government was even vaguely competent, they wouldn't have adopted "keep trying our luck" as a strategy.
There are workarounds. If the next version of the deal is different, then it should be allowed. (This depends on the EU though). Or they can end this session of Parliament and start again. This would enable them to bring forward MV3. The same amendment can be submitted again provided the original motion is different. So there further chances for votes another Ref, indicative votes, a customs union etc.
All we need now is for the EU to tell us where to stick our extension request ... We are so screwed ... Thank you MPs everywhere.
I think it is going to be very difficult for him to allow amendments which call for referenda etc now as well.
I would suggest the Lord Vetinari. With special advisors, Sir Humphrey Appleby and Niccolo Machiavelli.
I suspect Sir Humphrey would have been a Flexciter (though he has since fallen out with the Norths).
Provided the original motions are different, it looks like the same amendment can be submitted repeatedly. But who knows ...
Presumably we are heading towards no deal brexit, the default, or withdrawing A50. In either case there will be unrest. Whether this unrest will be significant enough to be called a civil contingency will be according to the judgement of the sitting PM.