Trump's side ( T Jr) says ~ we're ahead in this State by half a million votes but they want to count all these mail-in votes and steal the result from my father. Let's stop the count now and declare the result. Guiliani says ~ how far do we need to be ahead here? 400k votes not enough? Let's stop the count and declare the result.
By the same 'logic' why not say that Biden is well ahead in the Electoral College (currently 264/214 on the channel I'm watching) so why not stop the counting and declare the result for Biden?
I never thought I'd see the day when a US President and his hangers-on were actively, unashamedly and explicitly attempting to pervert the course of Democracy.
In Georgia Trump's margin over Biden is decreasing but not I think fast enough for Biden to win there. But if my sums are right if Biden picks up the same percentage of late votes in Pennsylvania and North Carolina he'll win them. (I say late votes, but they're votes posted early and counted late.)
The thought of Trump seriously trying to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people is truly horrifying.
While at the same time saying he wants to stop the counts so that those who have already had their vote counted are not disenfranchised. Has he got a different dictionary from everyone else?
Of course, it's great to fight against disenfranchising anyone. But, the first battle ground for that would surely be various State legislatures who have imposed so many conditions on registering to vote that many US citizens have found it impossible to register, let alone vote and have their vote counted. Mr Trump appears to have been conspicuous by his absence from that fight for the right to vote.
Biden needs 6 electoral votes to win at this point (again, assuming the projections are accurate) while Trump needs 56. Any state off that list other than Alaska will give Biden a victory whereas Trump essentially has to sweep them all.
According to Georgia election officials there are 61,367 mail-in ballots yet to be counted in that state and they expect to have them all counted by noon today (Eastern Time). Trump's current vote margin in the state is 18,586, so flipping the state to Biden is a possibility. Georgia does not accept mail-in ballots that arrive after Election Day, so the final tally today will be final, aside from any re-canvassing of ballots.
Has he got a different dictionary from everyone else?
Yes. But we've seen continuous evidence of that for the past four years, so his current idiocy shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I'm quite amused by watching various senior republican figures deciding that Trump might be losing the election, so they're brave enough to make carefully-worded criticisms of his current anti-democratic rhetoric.
Of course, when he was saying the same crap for the last four years, but their political ambitions relied on keeping him onside, they were silent.
Both of the Georgia Senate races are going to run-offs. Democrats could get 50 seats, and Harris as VP would cast the tie-breaking vote.
Probably true. It seems likely that Perdue is going to land a whisker or two under 50%. In which case it will all hinge on turnout in the runoff. Given the same turnout as the General Election, Republicans would win both seats narrowly. I find it unlikely that a runoff election without Trump on the ballot, and with a Democrat elected as President, would be more favourable for the Democrats, but the plus-size singer has yet to take the stage.
It's a clear sign that The Orange One has held too much power for far too long when he thinks he can essentially say to the country, "Sorry; only votes cast for me actually count."
I just read that if Trumps request to stop all counting was agreed to, Biden would win anyway, because he is ahead in Nevada as we speak, and would get sufficient EC votes. The man is flailing around.
I just read that if Trumps request to stop all counting was agreed to, Biden would win anyway, because he is ahead in Nevada as we speak, and would get sufficient EC votes. The man is flailing around.
I think his idea is to stop counting in Pennsylvania and Georgia so he holds onto them, then by magically believing that there must have been cheating going on, the Wisconsin recount will give the state to him.
He is desperate. And that is a comforting thought.
I just read that if Trumps request to stop all counting was agreed to, Biden would win anyway, because he is ahead in Nevada as we speak, and would get sufficient EC votes. The man is flailing around.
Maybe. Nevada election officials have said they'd update their vote count around noon Eastern Time today (~40 minutes from now as I type this), so obviously there's been some counting that simply hasn't been publicly reported yet. While the mail-in vote that's been counted so far has a pro-Biden tilt, past results are not a guarantee of future performance.
Noon Eastern is looking to be a busy time for political journalists today.
According to Georgia election officials there are 61,367 mail-in ballots yet to be counted in that state and they expect to have them all counted by noon today (Eastern Time). Trump's current vote margin in the state is 18,586, so flipping the state to Biden is a possibility.
Of those ballots, 17,157 are in Chatham county (vote so far 60-40 in favour of Biden), 11200 are in Fulton county (70-30 for Biden so far), 7300 in Gwinnett county (60-40 Biden so far), 7408 in Clayton county (85-15 Biden). The remaining ~18,300 ballots are from counties where Trump has the lead.
If the outstanding ballots divide the same way as the counties they come from, Biden will pick up an extra 10,000 - 11,000 votes, which will still leave Trump ahead. But both received wisdom and the data from the recent tranches of ballots added to the total suggest that these ballots are likely to tend more Democratic than the counties they come from, which leaves Georgia very much in play.
T is certainly a bad loser. Here's some free psychoanalysis, deep down he feels he is a loser and always has. Normally, that would cost you 300 euros, but since you're all honeybunches, it's free.
Maybe. Nevada election officials have said they'd update their vote count around noon Eastern Time today (~40 minutes from now as I type this), so obviously there's been some counting that simply hasn't been publicly reported yet.
New Nevada numbers are starting to dribble in. Biden's lead is now up to 11,800.
In other news, Puerto Rico has voted 52-48 in favour of statehood, which is as good as a Brexit referendum. This is by no means the first vote on statehood in PR, but it might be the first one that's really worth much.
Naturally, certain kinds of people will go to great lengths to avoid adding a state of Spanish speakers.
Naturally, certain kinds of people will go to great lengths to avoid adding a state of Spanish speakers.
That's one of the reasons Arizona and New Mexico were the last two states of the Lower 48 to be admitted to the Union. They didn't fit easily into the existing black/white racial caste system prevalent in late nineteenth/early twentieth century America.
I am watching again a WaPo live stream, currently with a media briefing from Arizona - it's a great relief to see how calm and measured the officials sound. There is definitely more to America than those horrible loud and foulmouthed statements we've become so used to in the last few years. It fills me with hope.
Barnabas62Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
Nevada will not complete its count util next week and will not complete counting what it already has until Saturday or Sunday. Ballots can be received up to 10 November apparently. Nevada might be critical to the overall result.
I'm not a stats person, at least about intricate predictions. If we're talking, say, how many and what kinds of candies, fruit, etc. are in your Halloween trick-or-treat bag, then yes, stats can be accurate and helpful.
The trick is, statistics operate on data, and if the data are crap, all the statistics in the world aren't going to give useful results. Polling data appear to be crap.
Ah! I may have mixed up Arizona with Nevada, where the live stream apparently was from. Apologies.
Oh, there are plenty of sensible election officials in Arizona too. A bunch of Trump supporters showed up outside a counting room chanting "count the vote!". An election official was quoted as saying something like "of course we're counting the vote. That's why we're here. We're going to keep counting until every vote is counted correctly. I don't know what they're doing here."
Nevada will not complete its count util next week and will not complete counting what it already has until Saturday or Sunday. Ballots can be received up to 10 November apparently. Nevada might be critical to the overall result.
Here are a list of states that don't yet have projected winners and the date by which a mail-in ballot must be received in order to be counted.
Georgia - November 3
Pennsylvania - November 6
Nevada - November 10
North Carolina - November 12 (litigation pending)
Alaska - November 13
Although it's been called by the AP and Fox News, for completeness' sake Arizona will not accept any mail-in ballot that it has not received by Election Day.
It's driving me nuts, but as long as Trump is distracted by this, he can't be putting his full attention on how to fuck things up during the lame duck part of his presidency.
Although it's been called by the AP and Fox News, for completeness' sake Arizona will not accept any mail-in ballot that it has not received by Election Day.
Is that a new thing? Especially in heavily GOP Arizona? I seem to remember in days past it mattered when it was postmarked not when it was received.
It's driving me nuts, but as long as Trump is distracted by this, he can't be putting his full attention on how to fuck things up during the lame duck part of his presidency.
And that, precisely,is my chief worry at the moment: What black mischief will he wreak? How will he burn down the joint?
Although it's been called by the AP and Fox News, for completeness' sake Arizona will not accept any mail-in ballot that it has not received by Election Day.
Is that a new thing? Especially in heavily GOP Arizona? I seem to remember in days past it mattered when it was postmarked not when it was received.
As with many things in the U.S., it depends on what state you're in. Arizona will only count a ballot if it has been received by 7:00 pm on Election Day. Note that it is legally permissible to hand deliver a "mail-in" ballot to the elections office in most states. Georgia is another state that has to have received mail-in ballots by the close of polls on Election Day in order for them to be counted. Pennsylvania usually adheres to that standard as well, but the state Supreme Court ruled that the circumstances of the COVID pandemic and likely delays in delivery that the state should accept ballot received up to three days after Election Day. The U.S. Supreme Court did not consider this a matter worthy of review [PDF] prior to the election. Revisiting the matter after a bunch of people have cast their ballots under the rules that exist now seems unfair, but is just the kind of cheap move one would expect from the Roberts court when it comes to election law.
The Pennsylvania Secretary of State has instructed election officials to keep ballots received after November 3 separate, "just in case".
Those *Republicans who want to have another chance to scrutinise and possibly reject Biden votes in battleground states should surely be given a mix of polling slips (with intended vote obscured) to see if their scrutiny is indeed based on ensuring that only valid votes are accepted and not for reasons of asdjusting the result in their favour.
*Or of course any Democratic Party supporters where Republicans have a narrow lead.
Democrats, it would appear, have failed to flip the Senate, despite spending hundreds of millions to unseat a few vulnerable incumbents.
Their majority in the House of Representatives is on track to shrink to single-digit territory.
One in three Latinos voted for Trump.
Democrats didn't pick up a single state legislative chamber, and lost
the New Hampshire State Senate and the Alaska State House.
Joe Biden may just squeak into the White House, but Tuesday was not a good night for the Democratic Party.
When the dust settles, I hope they're able to do some honest reflection about what went wrong.
Good grief! The incumbent is about to give a speech, as can be seen on the WaPo live stream, whose reporters say that they think - regarding the timing - he may be in one of his viler moods (my expression). WaPo are saying that their fact checkers are at the ready, and they apparently seem to be expecting a number of falsehoods and non-truths, again.
I wish the truth would prevail, and common sense, and this constant name-calling would end!
Rambling, repeating himself, claims of votes being "stolen", etc, etc. Came right out and said one Democrat state governor was responsible for cheating. Then into long ramble about general Democrat corruption.
He came across as having lost any grip on reality.
Not only don't I think he'll go quietly, I don't think he's going to go voluntarily at all. Men in white coats required?
Absolutely - and shockingly, it was just what the WaPo live stream people suspected. It is amazing how predictable this was! - Even the WaPo people seemed taken aback by his blunt falsehoods. What a disgrace!
It's kind of amusing, in a horrifying sense, how so many news reports contain sentences like "The President falsely claimed ..." and "President Trump provided no evidence for his claim that ..."
ETA: And now we're in a universe where Rick Santorum sounds like a responsible mature adult with critical thinking skills.
Democrats, it would appear, have failed to flip the Senate, despite spending hundreds of millions to unseat a few vulnerable incumbents.
Their majority in the House of Representatives is on track to shrink to single-digit territory.
One in three Latinos voted for Trump.
Democrats didn't pick up a single state legislative chamber, and lost
the New Hampshire State Senate and the Alaska State House.
Joe Biden may just squeak into the White House, but Tuesday was not a good night for the Democratic Party.
When the dust settles, I hope they're able to do some honest reflection about what went wrong.
I'm not really sure the Dems did much wrong, besides maybe passively encouraging some of the high expectations(hello Lincoln Project!), the non-fulfillment of which are now being held up as proof the Democrats did something wrong.
I always assumed that Biden would win the popular vote, but figured there was a pretty good chance the EC would be a horse race, or even a Republican victory. I know the argument is that Trump screwed things up so badly that the Democrats would have to be incredibly competent to lose, but(personal hobby horse alert), I honestly don't see much difference between the GOP under Trump and the GOP under Reagan or the Bushes. So if, after Iraq and Katrina, McCain could still garner a PV total in the late 40s, I don't quite see why Trump would be at such a disadvantage.
It's an item of underwear you use to protect your ..... there is a good joke in there somewhere but I just can't manage it right now.
Barnabas62Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
Crunch night. The President of the United States just pissed all over US democracy while the votes are still being counted That was a dangerously incendiary speech by a man who cannot abide the idea that he is probably being voted out of office.
The speech must have been motivated by forecasts by his own people re the outstanding votes in the remaining States. It was a disgraceful speech,
Democrats, it would appear, have failed to flip the Senate, despite spending hundreds of millions to unseat a few vulnerable incumbents.
Their majority in the House of Representatives is on track to shrink to single-digit territory.
One in three Latinos voted for Trump.
Democrats didn't pick up a single state legislative chamber, and lost
the New Hampshire State Senate and the Alaska State House.
Joe Biden may just squeak into the White House, but Tuesday was not a good night for the Democratic Party.
When the dust settles, I hope they're able to do some honest reflection about what went wrong.
What, no thoughts and prayers for the Republicans?
Arizona and Nevada are leaning Biden. Trump leads in Georgia by 3600 votes but the Atlanta area has 4700 votes not counted. Atlanta has been going 90 percent to Biden.
Comments
By the same 'logic' why not say that Biden is well ahead in the Electoral College (currently 264/214 on the channel I'm watching) so why not stop the counting and declare the result for Biden?
One verse (not much sung these days!) of our National Anthem includes these words:
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks...
Could have been written about Trump, no?
Was one of them in a state where he's slightly ahead and the other where he's slightly behind, by any chance?
Georgia is now very tight indeed.
Of course, it's great to fight against disenfranchising anyone. But, the first battle ground for that would surely be various State legislatures who have imposed so many conditions on registering to vote that many US citizens have found it impossible to register, let alone vote and have their vote counted. Mr Trump appears to have been conspicuous by his absence from that fight for the right to vote.
Biden needs 6 electoral votes to win at this point (again, assuming the projections are accurate) while Trump needs 56. Any state off that list other than Alaska will give Biden a victory whereas Trump essentially has to sweep them all.
According to Georgia election officials there are 61,367 mail-in ballots yet to be counted in that state and they expect to have them all counted by noon today (Eastern Time). Trump's current vote margin in the state is 18,586, so flipping the state to Biden is a possibility. Georgia does not accept mail-in ballots that arrive after Election Day, so the final tally today will be final, aside from any re-canvassing of ballots.
Previous list here.
*Will accept mailed ballots received after Election Day provided they are postmarked on or before Election Day.
Yes. But we've seen continuous evidence of that for the past four years, so his current idiocy shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I'm quite amused by watching various senior republican figures deciding that Trump might be losing the election, so they're brave enough to make carefully-worded criticisms of his current anti-democratic rhetoric.
Of course, when he was saying the same crap for the last four years, but their political ambitions relied on keeping him onside, they were silent.
Probably true. It seems likely that Perdue is going to land a whisker or two under 50%. In which case it will all hinge on turnout in the runoff. Given the same turnout as the General Election, Republicans would win both seats narrowly. I find it unlikely that a runoff election without Trump on the ballot, and with a Democrat elected as President, would be more favourable for the Democrats, but the plus-size singer has yet to take the stage.
I think his idea is to stop counting in Pennsylvania and Georgia so he holds onto them, then by magically believing that there must have been cheating going on, the Wisconsin recount will give the state to him.
He is desperate. And that is a comforting thought.
Maybe. Nevada election officials have said they'd update their vote count around noon Eastern Time today (~40 minutes from now as I type this), so obviously there's been some counting that simply hasn't been publicly reported yet. While the mail-in vote that's been counted so far has a pro-Biden tilt, past results are not a guarantee of future performance.
Noon Eastern is looking to be a busy time for political journalists today.
Of those ballots, 17,157 are in Chatham county (vote so far 60-40 in favour of Biden), 11200 are in Fulton county (70-30 for Biden so far), 7300 in Gwinnett county (60-40 Biden so far), 7408 in Clayton county (85-15 Biden). The remaining ~18,300 ballots are from counties where Trump has the lead.
If the outstanding ballots divide the same way as the counties they come from, Biden will pick up an extra 10,000 - 11,000 votes, which will still leave Trump ahead. But both received wisdom and the data from the recent tranches of ballots added to the total suggest that these ballots are likely to tend more Democratic than the counties they come from, which leaves Georgia very much in play.
These counts don't include provisional ballots.
New Nevada numbers are starting to dribble in. Biden's lead is now up to 11,800.
No wonder T is getting a bit hot under the collar - but yes, I appreciate that there's a way to go yet.
BTW, the BBC says it's being wary of publishing results which haven't quite been confirmed.
Naturally, certain kinds of people will go to great lengths to avoid adding a state of Spanish speakers.
That's one of the reasons Arizona and New Mexico were the last two states of the Lower 48 to be admitted to the Union. They didn't fit easily into the existing black/white racial caste system prevalent in late nineteenth/early twentieth century America.
...and there was me thinking that *England* was likely to become the 51st State!
The impressive thing is that the offical cleary stated that their counting is NOT about speed, but about accuracy! Well done!
The trick is, statistics operate on data, and if the data are crap, all the statistics in the world aren't going to give useful results. Polling data appear to be crap.
Oh, there are plenty of sensible election officials in Arizona too. A bunch of Trump supporters showed up outside a counting room chanting "count the vote!". An election official was quoted as saying something like "of course we're counting the vote. That's why we're here. We're going to keep counting until every vote is counted correctly. I don't know what they're doing here."
Here are a list of states that don't yet have projected winners and the date by which a mail-in ballot must be received in order to be counted.
Although it's been called by the AP and Fox News, for completeness' sake Arizona will not accept any mail-in ballot that it has not received by Election Day.
Is that a new thing? Especially in heavily GOP Arizona? I seem to remember in days past it mattered when it was postmarked not when it was received.
And that, precisely,is my chief worry at the moment: What black mischief will he wreak? How will he burn down the joint?
someone said today they think he's planning another go in 4 years, so he wouldn't want make even more of a mess as he leaves the job.
As with many things in the U.S., it depends on what state you're in. Arizona will only count a ballot if it has been received by 7:00 pm on Election Day. Note that it is legally permissible to hand deliver a "mail-in" ballot to the elections office in most states. Georgia is another state that has to have received mail-in ballots by the close of polls on Election Day in order for them to be counted. Pennsylvania usually adheres to that standard as well, but the state Supreme Court ruled that the circumstances of the COVID pandemic and likely delays in delivery that the state should accept ballot received up to three days after Election Day. The U.S. Supreme Court did not consider this a matter worthy of review [PDF] prior to the election. Revisiting the matter after a bunch of people have cast their ballots under the rules that exist now seems unfair, but is just the kind of cheap move one would expect from the Roberts court when it comes to election law.
The Pennsylvania Secretary of State has instructed election officials to keep ballots received after November 3 separate, "just in case".
*Or of course any Democratic Party supporters where Republicans have a narrow lead.
Their majority in the House of Representatives is on track to shrink to single-digit territory.
One in three Latinos voted for Trump.
Democrats didn't pick up a single state legislative chamber, and lost
the New Hampshire State Senate and the Alaska State House.
Joe Biden may just squeak into the White House, but Tuesday was not a good night for the Democratic Party.
When the dust settles, I hope they're able to do some honest reflection about what went wrong.
I wish the truth would prevail, and common sense, and this constant name-calling would end!
I’m guessing a voting paper, or whatever the document you mark your votes on is called. Or is it all digital where you are!
Trump giving a statement as I write this.
Rambling, repeating himself, claims of votes being "stolen", etc, etc. Came right out and said one Democrat state governor was responsible for cheating. Then into long ramble about general Democrat corruption.
He came across as having lost any grip on reality.
Not only don't I think he'll go quietly, I don't think he's going to go voluntarily at all. Men in white coats required?
I agree with the bit about not focusjn
ETA: And now we're in a universe where Rick Santorum sounds like a responsible mature adult with critical thinking skills.
I'm not really sure the Dems did much wrong, besides maybe passively encouraging some of the high expectations(hello Lincoln Project!), the non-fulfillment of which are now being held up as proof the Democrats did something wrong.
I always assumed that Biden would win the popular vote, but figured there was a pretty good chance the EC would be a horse race, or even a Republican victory. I know the argument is that Trump screwed things up so badly that the Democrats would have to be incredibly competent to lose, but(personal hobby horse alert), I honestly don't see much difference between the GOP under Trump and the GOP under Reagan or the Bushes. So if, after Iraq and Katrina, McCain could still garner a PV total in the late 40s, I don't quite see why Trump would be at such a disadvantage.
It's an item of underwear you use to protect your ..... there is a good joke in there somewhere but I just can't manage it right now.
The speech must have been motivated by forecasts by his own people re the outstanding votes in the remaining States. It was a disgraceful speech,