Dead Horses Admin Decision

On the Dead Horses Homosexuality thread @Alan Cresswell made the following Admin decision:
Which is why Dawkins, in 'River out of Eden', made the point that in an atheist world, essentially everything happens purposelessly in an ultimately purposeless universe, and therefore say Martin Luther King and Ian Brady are morally equal as things that just so happened. And as he explicitly says, there is therefore 'no good and no evil'. And that, according to Dawkins, is very much 'the science'!

I rather suspect that appropriate tests would show that Brady had 'natural' desires to torture and kill children in pretty exactly the sense in which 'homosexuality' is 'natural'. Which is my point
Steve, the number of examples of offence in this short portion of a post are numerous. But, of particular note:

1. By bracketing your comparison of MLK and Brady as "morally equal" by reference to Richard Dawkins creates the impression that you are citing 'River Out Of Eden' on this point. That is not a comparison that Dawkins makes, in the section of his book where he explicitly states there is no good and no evil (p132 in the edition I have) the example he gives of evil is a bus crash killing children. We do not tolerate potential libel on the Ship (see Commandment 7)

2. Likening homosexuals to paedophiles is a very offensive category error. To make that comparison with a child killer like Brady even more so. This is not only a personal attack on homosexuals (see Commandment 3), it may also be close to hate speech under UK law.

On the basis of these two egregious breaches of our Commandments, we hope you spend the next two weeks working on how you can make your points without causing needless offense because you won't be spending them posting on the Ship.

Ship of Fools Admin

All of which makes perfect sense and I am not querying at all. I realise Steve's shore leave is because he's infringed more than one commandment. But I would like to know why there was no Admin admonishment of @Russ on the Pope Francis Hell thread
To those who believe that sexual orientation is identity, then yes they're basically either gay or straight even if they're resisting their desires.

To those who believe that identity is more than who or what you carnally desire, then maybe "celibate religious" or "priest" (with celibacy implied) can be an identity.

Karl quoted Papa Francis:
"For this reason, the Church urges that persons with this rooted tendency not be accepted into ministry or consecrated life."

Isn't that what you want him to say about paedophiles ?
equally equating homosexuality with paedophilia and did not withdraw it when challenged. Surely if Steve Langton is to be censured for this, so should Russ be?


  • The short answer is that the hosts didn't flag it as an issue, and we don't read everything on the Ship. Russ has been on a short leash for provocative posting styles for a while, but I'm not going to go back that far to pull someone up. It'll be added to the tally, but on that occasion he got away with it (an example of the operation of C11 ... don't get caught, which is a very risky basis for behaving here that I would definitely not recommend).
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    He did post this.

  • Yes, but it wasn't a retraction, it was a weaselling around of words. And it followed this from Purgatory on the Transgender thread
    Russ wrote: »
    Whereas the conservative narrative might be that we know from the Good Old Days that the real incidence of serious gender dysphoria (those who can't just pull their socks up and get over it) is tiny, and the 1% figure represents "social contagion", attention-seeking behaviour and fake statistics.

    which seems to be an excuse to attack transgender under the cloak of being a caricature. When challenged in Hell that was his defence:
    Russ wrote: »
    What's your problem, CK ?

    The bit you quoted one half of is caricaturing progressive and conservative positions, with the usual implication that people of goodwill ought to be able to meet in the middle somewhere.

    You're not someone I'd normally associate with the self-righteous belief that the progressive narrative is the only morally permissible one...

    Or someone I'd expect to accuse me of being unfair to conservatives...

    But it was an unnecessarily offensive phrasing and felt like an excuse to trash another group.
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited February 2019
    For what it's worth, I think that Steve went further in equating different categories than Russ did. Steve also entered C7 territory, whereas Russ did not.

    While trashing other groups is tiresome whoever is doing the trashing, we aim to accommodate diverse opinions so long as we consider the way they are expressed to fall short of breaking the law, for instance laws on hate speech.

    Hell is of course at your disposal to vent your ire at those still alive and trashing.
  • Yes, I'm doing that - and I'm done here. I was just querying that one person was picked up on something and another wasn't - and I've got that answer.
  • If you spot something that you think the hosts should take a second look at, then please make use of the messaging facility. That obviously goes for all shipmates.
  • But use this option sparingly, for instance if you think a post breaks the law, reveals personal details, or other similar things that require urgent action. Don't expect much crew response to complaints about grammar or the lawful use of swear words, for instance.
  • "Never tickle a sleeping dragon".
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