Is there a resurrection for cats ?

RublevRublev Shipmate
edited March 11 in Purgatory
A vocations advisor once told me that at his selection conference he was asked how he would answer the question: 'Is there a resurrection for cats ?'

He never told me what he replied and I have always wondered what he said.

So will there be any animals in heaven - and does the Bible have anything to say on the matter?

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Comments

  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    JMHO, but if there are no dogs in Heaven, I'm not going.
  • I believe that the classical answer is "no" because animals don't have souls.

    Now, the classical answer is not necessarily the right one.

    I would say a lot depends on your understanding of heaven. For me, ultimate salvation (as opposed to only viewing heaven as entailing the afterlife) means that creation is fully reconciled to God. And so, yes, in a fully redeemed creation, animals will be present in the perfect shalom of God.

    I also think that if you reject the notion that humans are intrinsically special, being that we are animals like the rest of all animals, then you cannot think that only humans will have a share in the life to come.
  • It brings up several interesting points. Cats (and dogs) being done of the nicest "people" I've known.

    A second point is who has a soul. Neanderthals, Homo Erectus and some other species of homonim used fire, created art and buried theirv dead. All not "us", all extinct species of human.

    If I have a soul, I suspect they do as well. I'm also thinking chimpazees. They form relationships, use tools, make war, have complex communication. Not sure where we might draw a line.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    There would be, but when the graves open the cats shall start climbing out, stop and hang around for a bit in the grave mouths, and then climb straight back in and sit there mewing for a bit before curling up and going to sleep.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Rublev wrote: »
    So will there be any animals in heaven - and does the Bible have anything to say on the matter?
    Well, we’re told the wolf shall lie down with the lamb.

    Is having a soul the operative thing? And is “being in heaven” the real goal? As @Anglican Brat says, it seems to me that the Scriptures, both OT and NT, speak a great deal about all creation being redeemed and made new.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Yes, yes, I know that Lewis wasn't writing about actual heaven, but I liked the bit in The Great Divorce where the lady :innocent: was walking in the beautiful realm and was trailed by a crowd of adoring animals to whom she was kind on earth.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Lyda wrote: »
    Yes, yes, I know that Lewis wasn't writing about actual heaven, but I liked the bit in The Great Divorce where the lady :innocent: was walking in the beautiful realm and was trailed by a crowd of adoring animals to whom she was kind on earth.
    Lewis did, however, speculate (in The Problem of Pain maybe?) that at least domesticated animals might receive immortality through their relationships with humans.
  • A Feminine ForceA Feminine Force Shipmate
    edited March 12
    Of course there is. Eight of them.

    AFF
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited March 12
    Everyone knows that cats are Satan's own creatures, so there will be none in heaven. Dogs clearly demonstrate selfless love, devotion and loyalty so of course they will be there.
  • LothlorienLothlorien All Saints Host
    Leaving aside the question of souls, the book of Revelations says all creation shall offer praise.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Does that then include the rebellious angels?
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Dogs clearly demonstrate selfless love, devotion and loyalty so of course they will be there.

    :smile: :smile: :smile:

  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    edited March 12
    There's a story that Martin Luther sat with his dog, reading the NT passage about how all creation is waiting for the revelation of the sons of God, will be renewed, etc.

    He looked at his dog and said "You, too, shall have a little golden tail".
    :)
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited March 12
    Luther was good at things like that. Another saying was that while men might laugh while their fellow villager hangs out his baby son's nappies, God looks down and gently smiles. (Just how did nappies get washed and then died in a 1530s northern winter?)

    Did St Joseph hang the nappies out?

  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited March 12
    Gee D wrote: »
    Does that then include the rebellious angels?

    Origen thought even the devil would be saved in the end.

    I very much hope to see Shlimblick (with us for 15 years, pictured above, laid to rest Feb 25, 2019) there.

    And now you've made me all teary again.
  • I believe that there is a group of all the cats I have ever owned who are, even now, waiting for me
  • Then again, any wishful or simplistic thinking about what things in Heaven are like - to the point of putting one off even wanting to go there - is surely embodied by the cringeworthy poem Glorified by, of all people, John Piper (excerpt):
    And as I knelt beside the brook
    To drink eternal life, I took
    A glance across the golden grass,
    And saw my dog, old Blackie, fast
    As she could come. She leaped the stream-
    Almost-and what a happy gleam
    Was in her eye.
    I knelt to drink,
    And knew that I was on the brink
    Of endless joy. And everywhere
    I turned I saw a wonder there.
    A big man running on the lawn:
    That's old John Younge with both legs on.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Where? When? How? As for anything. The sublime has to be an eternal Hotel Hilbert. Unimaginable. Unbelievable.
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited March 12
    Hotel Hilbert is neither unimaginable nor unbelievable since it is a well-known thought experiment - one which I have at last understood you to deploy to explain God's infinite expansion whilst remaining unchanged (the above post supplying the confirmation I needed of that).

    Nevertheless, it strikes me as about as appealing for the essence, rather than the maths, of heaven as Hotel California.

    Piper looks so badly wrong (and if you think the quoted part is bad, click the link and read the beginning, which has the word "moist" in it, as well as lots of NT Jesus-the-Killer blood) because he is one of those people you (and perhaps I) over-literally interpret as overly literalistic. At least it is to be hoped that's what we're doing.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I believe that there is a group of all the cats I have ever owned who are, even now, waiting for me

    ... to feed them.

    If there are cats in heaven they're looking at God and thinking "what's he doing on my chair?"

    Dogs meh. Never really got the point of them.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Dogs meh. Never really got the point of them.

    Then you haven’t lived.
  • KittyvilleKittyville Shipmate
    He hasn't lived your life. Karl seems to have lived his own quite happily.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Kittyville wrote: »
    He hasn't lived your life. Karl seems to have lived his own quite happily.

    Well I wouldn't go that far but dogs have never been in my sights as something that would improve it. They seem a lot of work and my life is complicated enough.
  • FirenzeFirenze Purgatory Host, Host Emeritus
    In the highly unlikely event of my entering Heaven, will I find Molly (attended by all the little bluetits she assassinated?)

    If animal relationship with humans is what counts, what about all the ones I ate?

    (And I’m not sure they had nappies in the 16th century. I think it was swaddling bands for starters and then frocks and nae knickers).
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    You could well be right on that. I'm just going on a a translation of the saying.
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    edited March 12
    Cats, unlike dogs, aren't mentioned in the Bible. But there is a nice story that the Prophet Mohammed once cut off the sleeve of his prayer robe rather than disturb his favourite cat Muezza who was sleeping on it. He prohibited the persecution and killing of cats. So cats are considered the quintessential pet by Muslims.

    It has been said that dogs have owners. But cats have staff.
  • Just bear in mind that if there are animals in heaven then that will include snakes, spiders, mosquitos, wasps, etc. And there will be a lot more of them than us.

    Also, for every Fluffles The Poodle who'd never harm anyone there's a Ripper The Pit Bull who would bite your arm off as quick as look at you. Will they be there too?

    As far as I'm concerned, an afterlife of being constantly barked at, clawed, bitten and stung is more like Hell than Heaven.
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    edited March 12
    According to Isaiah in the kingdom of God the snakes are all going to be non venomous (Is 11: 8-9). And lions and ravenous beasts will be banned (Is 35: 9). Perhaps they all go to the Other Place instead ?
  • TubbsTubbs Admin
    The cat will neither be inside or outside heaven. Just staring through the door as St Peter holds it open ... :wink:
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Tubbs wrote: »
    The cat will neither be inside or outside heaven. Just staring through the door as St Peter holds it open ... :wink:

    Yeah - whining to be let out then standing on the threshold while all the warm air is let out then changing its mind and whinging for food instead.
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    They say that cats have never forgotten that they used to be worshipped. You would have thought that Moses would have smuggled a few moggies out of Egypt to take to the Promised Land. But they probably would not have liked 40 years of wandering in the desert. Not enough creature comforts there.
  • Interesting point about mosquitos, as human bodies contain a lot of bacteria, and no doubt other beasties. Let's not forget the archaea and protists and fungi, surely they deserve to be uplifted.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    All animals - even cats - will be vegetarian in Heaven.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Nevertheless, [Hotel Hilbert] strikes me as about as appealing for the essence, rather than the maths, of heaven as Hotel California.
    Moving rooms all the time would also get tedious very quickly.

  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    All animals - even cats - will be vegetarian in Heaven.

    So what about the poor plants? :wink:
  • LeRoc wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Nevertheless, [Hotel Hilbert] strikes me as about as appealing for the essence, rather than the maths, of heaven as Hotel California.
    Moving rooms all the time would also get tedious very quickly.

    In my Father's house are many mansions, though.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    LeRoc wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Nevertheless, [Hotel Hilbert] strikes me as about as appealing for the essence, rather than the maths, of heaven as Hotel California.
    Moving rooms all the time would also get tedious very quickly.

    You'd only need to move once, to a room numbered twice your previous room number.
  • balaambalaam Shipmate, 8th Day Host
    Gee D wrote: »
    Just how did nappies get washed and then died in a 1530s northern winter

    If I lived the life of a nappy I'd wish I was dead too.

    As for other living things, it there's no cats it's not Heaven.

    And in Hell the dogs will be demanding to be taken for a walk in heavy sleet.
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    balaam wrote: »
    And in Hell the dogs will be demanding to be taken for a walk in heavy sleet.
    There are no dogs in hell.

  • A Feminine ForceA Feminine Force Shipmate
    edited March 12
    How has a thread about cats become a discussion about dogs?

    I guess it's only fair. Cats own every other corner of the internet that isn't occupied by porn.

    AFF
  • Or sleet. Just heavy fiery rain.... :fearful:
  • balaambalaam Shipmate, 8th Day Host
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    balaam wrote: »
    And in Hell the dogs will be demanding to be taken for a walk in heavy sleet.
    There are no dogs in hell.

    I have taken a dog for walks in the freezing slushy stuff. It felt like hell.

  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    edited March 12
    balaam wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    balaam wrote: »
    And in Hell the dogs will be demanding to be taken for a walk in heavy sleet.
    There are no dogs in hell.

    I have taken a dog for walks in the freezing slushy stuff. It felt like hell.

    But since dogs don't go to hell, you'll just be sent to walk in the sleet by yourself.
    :wink:

  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    How has a thread about cats become a discussion about dogs?

    Because the OP asked "So will there be any animals in heaven - and does the Bible have anything to say on the matter?"
  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    How has a thread about cats become a discussion about dogs?

    Because the OP asked "So will there be any animals in heaven - and does the Bible have anything to say on the matter?"

    Ah. That.

    There are animals other than cats?

    (Says the woman who, if she ever leaves her current partner, it will be for a cat.)

    AFF
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    balaam wrote: »
    And in Hell the dogs will be demanding to be taken for a walk in heavy sleet.
    There are no dogs in hell.

    Cerebrus?
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    balaam wrote: »
    And in Hell the dogs will be demanding to be taken for a walk in heavy sleet.
    There are no dogs in hell.

    Cerebrus?

    Does it count if he guards the Banks of the Styx and not inside the gates of Hell.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    If my cats aren't waiting for me in the afterlife, I will be sad. Since heaven is a place supposedly where there will be no sorrow, logically they must be there. Right? :wink:
  • balaambalaam Shipmate, 8th Day Host
    Works for me NMR
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    All animals - even cats - will be vegetarian in Heaven.

    Will they have bodies?

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