Department of Redundancy Department

mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
Everyday phrases that are redundant as all hell. Feel free to comment on how crazy they drive you, if applicable.

To start us off:
  • ATM Machine
  • Where are you located?
  • the horse you rode in on
«134567

Comments

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    • PIN Number
    • The SAT test
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Church Of God

    (Well, yes, there are non-theistic churches, but the theistic variety is so prevalent, the phrase is pretty generic, if not techically redundant.)
  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    Everyday phrases that are redundant as all hell.
    <snip>
    the horse you rode in on
    <snip>
    I'm not sure this one is redundant. I presume that gentlemen from the era of the expression often had more than one horse, and may well have ridden different mounts as the mood struck them. But I may be mistaken.
  • And people who talk about "Christian churches" as in "There are several Christian churches in this town" (presumably to distinguish them from the Muslim synagogues, Buddhist gurdwaras and Muslim chapels).

    While we're about it, BBC weather forecasters who talk about winds "easing down" (they have other phrases which I can't at present remember). And drivers who "reverse back" - I'm not aware that one can do it in any other direction.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    As an aficionado of police reality shows I wince when they say "at this point in time".
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    tclune wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Everyday phrases that are redundant as all hell.
    <snip>
    the horse you rode in on
    <snip>
    I'm not sure this one is redundant. I presume that gentlemen from the era of the expression often had more than one horse, and may well have ridden different mounts as the mood struck them. But I may be mistaken.

    My point is that if you're riding a horse, you're ON it.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    tclune wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Everyday phrases that are redundant as all hell.
    <snip>
    the horse you rode in on
    <snip>
    I'm not sure this one is redundant. I presume that gentlemen from the era of the expression often had more than one horse, and may well have ridden different mounts as the mood struck them. But I may be mistaken.

    I thought MT meant the ‘on’ was optional/redundant. Like the song about Jesus riding on a donkey - you could just say ‘riding a donkey,’ and it would mean the same (though wouldn’t fit the rhythm of the song).
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    (Though to me ‘Where are you located?’ has a more specific meaning than ‘Where are you?’ - which can also mean ‘where are you right now?’)
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    (Though to me ‘Where are you located?’ has a more specific meaning than ‘Where are you?’ - which can also mean ‘where are you right now?’)

    I dunno. I just heard one of the campus security guys' walkie-talkie say, "JJ, where are you located?" I can't see any difference between that and "JJ, where are you?"
  • Just as, to me, "parking up" implies that you are going to leave your vehicle for some considerable time, perhaps overnight, while "parking" may suggest that it will be there for only a few minutes. YMMV on this.

    Not a redundancy but an annoyance: people who put 12pm to signify noon. Both 12am and 12pm are midnight, one coming at the start of the day and the other coming at the end.
  • Not a redundancy but an annoyance: people who put 12pm to signify noon. Both 12am and 12pm are midnight, one coming at the start of the day and the other coming at the end.

    Those people are a lot of people. There is no reliable agreement on what either 12am or 12pm means. If you think you can rely on either 12am or 12pm as a useful time descriptor, you are wrong.

    Similarly, is "midnight on the 17th" the night between the 16th and 17th, or 17th and 18th? The 24-hour clock is unambiguous: 00:00 is early morning, and 24:00 is the end of the evening. "Midnight Friday night" is unambiguous. "Midnight on Friday?" Good luck...
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    My point is that if you're riding a horse, you're ON it.
    The horse you rode in.

  • W HyattW Hyatt Shipmate
    Past experience
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Similarly, is "midnight on the 17th" the night between the 16th and 17th, or 17th and 18th? The 24-hour clock is unambiguous: 00:00 is early morning, and 24:00 is the end of the evening. "Midnight Friday night" is unambiguous. "Midnight on Friday?" Good luck...

    I think this is why some people will say e.g. that the term paper is due at 11:59pm on 3 November. No ambiguity.
  • Yes, airlines equally often give departure times as "00.01".

    There can also be confusion when someone says, "I'll see you at twenty to ten". It could be construed, probably rightly, as 21.40 - but it might just be 22.10 (it all depends on how you say it and even on who's saying it: do they customarily use the 24-hour clock?)
  • Jengie JonJengie Jon Shipmate
    edited March 18
    mousethief wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    (Though to me ‘Where are you located?’ has a more specific meaning than ‘Where are you?’ - which can also mean ‘where are you right now?’)

    I dunno. I just heard one of the campus security guys' walkie-talkie say, "JJ, where are you located?" I can't see any difference between that and "JJ, where are you?"

    So if the answer is "I have been located to the management school and I am on my way over there now" is it still redundant? 'Located' would mean where have you been rostered responsibility for.
  • "moving forward"
  • "moving forward"

    This one is not only not redundant, but also not usually true. People who propose "moving forward" often seem to be proposing either a backwards step, or a completely orthogonal move in some higher dimension.
  • "And what can I do for yourself this morning?" (admittedly that's not really redundancy).
  • This one is not only not redundant, but also not usually true. People who propose "moving forward" often seem to be proposing either a backwards step, or a completely orthogonal move in some higher dimension.

    Hmm. I rather thought that we can't do other than move forward.
  • balaambalaam Shipmate
    LeRoc wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    My point is that if you're riding a horse, you're ON it.
    The horse you rode in.

    I applaud your close scrutiny.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    (Though to me ‘Where are you located?’ has a more specific meaning than ‘Where are you?’ - which can also mean ‘where are you right now?’)

    I dunno. I just heard one of the campus security guys' walkie-talkie say, "JJ, where are you located?" I can't see any difference between that and "JJ, where are you?"

    So if the answer is "I have been located to the management school and I am on my way over there now" is it still redundant? 'Located' would mean where have you been rostered responsibility for.

    I don't think we use "located" that way here. I've never seen it before.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    This one is not only not redundant, but also not usually true. People who propose "moving forward" often seem to be proposing either a backwards step, or a completely orthogonal move in some higher dimension.

    Hmm. I rather thought that we can't do other than move forward.

    You've clearly never backed a car out of a driveway.
  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    This one is not only not redundant, but also not usually true. People who propose "moving forward" often seem to be proposing either a backwards step, or a completely orthogonal move in some higher dimension.

    Hmm. I rather thought that we can't do other than move forward.

    Live and learn.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    tclune wrote: »
    This one is not only not redundant, but also not usually true. People who propose "moving forward" often seem to be proposing either a backwards step, or a completely orthogonal move in some higher dimension.

    Hmm. I rather thought that we can't do other than move forward.

    Live and learn.

    He's good.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    You've clearly never backed a car out of a driveway.

    actually, I haven't!

    In my defence, moving forward is usually used in a temporal sense.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited March 18
    Hmm. I rather thought that we can't do other than move forward.
    Temporally, no (unless you're Dr. Who). Spatially, yes.

    And here are two more redundancies:

    "We've been given special permission to visit ..." (usually by a TV reporter).
    "The Minister categorically denied the accusations" (politics).

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    You've clearly never backed a car out of a driveway.

    actually, I haven't!

    In my defence, moving forward is usually used in a temporal sense.

    Is it? That's not my experience.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    "In excess of ... ". What's wrong with 'over' or even 'more than'?
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    "In excess of ... ". What's wrong with 'over' or even 'more than'?

    Although that's not so much redundant as over-fancy. A similar example is "usage" when "use" would serve just as well.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    You've clearly never backed a car out of a driveway.

    actually, I haven't!

    In my defence, moving forward is usually used in a temporal sense.

    Is it? That's not my experience.

    I'm thinking of its use in meetings. Obviously, it also has an everyday use.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    You really can't expect us to read your mind.
  • I'm thinking of its use in meetings. Obviously, it also has an everyday use.

    Nobody in meetings uses "move forward" in a temporal sense. When someone says "let's move forward" they aren't advocating that time should continue in its normal progression - they are advocating changing topic to the next in a sequential list. It's a logical progression, not a temporal one, and it is easy (and in some meetings common) to go back to something.

    If someone says that we should "move forward with X" they are again advocating that project X should take the next logical step(s) in its process of execution. If X encounters a problem, it may well be necessary to step back.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    mousethief wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    (Though to me ‘Where are you located?’ has a more specific meaning than ‘Where are you?’ - which can also mean ‘where are you right now?’)

    I dunno. I just heard one of the campus security guys' walkie-talkie say, "JJ, where are you located?" I can't see any difference between that and "JJ, where are you?"

    Well, yes, in that context, it's probably unnecessary. I was thinking about situations when people aren't right now at the place where they are located. Though in this context it adds a different sort of specificity, as 'where are you?' can in theory mean what country/town/university are you in, or it can be metaphorical, such as where are you in the book you're reading, or in the project you're doing, or in life, or all sorts of things. (I know because I take questions like this too literally sometimes, and then people have to reword!) So it's context that makes the 'located' probably unnecessary here, but then context makes lots of words we say unnecessary.

  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    (Though to me ‘Where are you located?’ has a more specific meaning than ‘Where are you?’ - which can also mean ‘where are you right now?’)

    I dunno. I just heard one of the campus security guys' walkie-talkie say, "JJ, where are you located?" I can't see any difference between that and "JJ, where are you?"

    So if the answer is "I have been located to the management school and I am on my way over there now" is it still redundant? 'Located' would mean where have you been rostered responsibility for.


    Yes, I was thinking that too - someone could be officially located in a particular room/department, but be right now in the bathroom, or outside smoking a cigarette.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    In my experience, 'move forward' in meetings means focus on progression, taking the next step, not keeping on doing what you were doing, or focusing on the past, but taking what you are doing to the next step. Besides, it would sound a bit odd to just say 'We need to move,' because that is generally used as a literal term, and people would likely think they had to move to a different meeting room.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    My dad talks about 'wet rain,' and he means something very specific by it. When he first said it, I laughed and said 'As opposed to dry rain?' And he thought I was being awkward, taking things literally on purpose, and he said 'You know what I mean!' and I said no, I really don't. So he clarified as 'Wet and miserable rain. Rain that makes you feel miserable.' I have never heard anyone else talk about wet rain, so I have no idea if it's a real expression.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    Free gift.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    Jengie Jon wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    (Though to me ‘Where are you located?’ has a more specific meaning than ‘Where are you?’ - which can also mean ‘where are you right now?’)

    I dunno. I just heard one of the campus security guys' walkie-talkie say, "JJ, where are you located?" I can't see any difference between that and "JJ, where are you?"

    So if the answer is "I have been located to the management school and I am on my way over there now" is it still redundant? 'Located' would mean where have you been rostered responsibility for.


    Yes, I was thinking that too - someone could be officially located in a particular room/department, but be right now in the bathroom, or outside smoking a cigarette.

    I repeat myself since it didn't take last time -- I have never heard that use of the word "located."
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    In my experience, 'move forward' in meetings means focus on progression, taking the next step, not keeping on doing what you were doing, or focusing on the past, but taking what you are doing to the next step. Besides, it would sound a bit odd to just say 'We need to move,' because that is generally used as a literal term, and people would likely think they had to move to a different meeting room.

    I would say that "move forward" in such a context, as was said above, means to take the next step in making that particular idea come to fruition.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    "dead body"

    Because the phrase is usually used in contexts where it would be understood that the bodies in question are dead, eg. "The police found a dead body in the room." Even without the "dead", there would be little confusion about the state of the body.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited March 18
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    Free gift.

    I think that's usually used by stores and other businesses that sell things, to emphaszie that, this time, they're giving you something for free, as opposed to their normal practice of charging you for stuff.

    I guess they could just say "free item", but that wouldn't carry the same warm-fuzzy connotations of "gift".

    (And, yes, it's still redundant.)

  • SipechSipech Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    My dad talks about 'wet rain,' and he means something very specific by it. When he first said it, I laughed and said 'As opposed to dry rain?' And he thought I was being awkward, taking things literally on purpose, and he said 'You know what I mean!' and I said no, I really don't. So he clarified as 'Wet and miserable rain. Rain that makes you feel miserable.' I have never heard anyone else talk about wet rain, so I have no idea if it's a real expression.

    A former colleague used this once. I think my piss-taking of him lasted about 6 weeks thereafter.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Come away on in, as they say in Ireland. Actually ‘away’ turns up a lot. Och away on! (General expression of incredulity/surprise). Away and catch yourself on (You have said/done something foolish).

    And let’s not even get into the ‘afters’.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Pizza pie
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    "medical doctor"

    Because "doctor", as an occupational description, is almost always confined to the medical kind. If your sister has a Ph.D and is a tenured professor, you would say "My sister is a professor", not "My sister is a doctor".
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    "medical doctor"

    Because "doctor", as an occupational description, is almost always confined to the medical kind. If your sister has a Ph.D and is a tenured professor, you would say "My sister is a professor", not "My sister is a doctor".

    Unless she had JUST gotten her doctorate. "My sister is a doctor now!" I can see that.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    "dead body"

    Because the phrase is usually used in contexts where it would be understood that the bodies in question are dead, eg. "The police found a dead body in the room." Even without the "dead", there would be little confusion about the state of the body.

    If the police found a live but unresponsive body in the room, someone would probably say, "The police found an unconscious person in the room."
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Usage on both of the last two is different here.

    'Pizza pie' is an expression we don't use. It's just pizza here. From somewhere, I've picked up a notion that a 'pizza pie' is something slightly different from a pizza. Is that right?

    Doctor is the normal title for someone with a PhD. However, because the medical profession are also 'doctors, to avoid confusion, there's a tendency to say of someone with a PhD that they 'have a doctorate'. You're not a 'professor' unless you really are one, which usually means being a head of an academic department.

    A friend of mine told me, with a certain amount of gratification, that after he got his PhD, he got much quicker attention than previously when he had go to a hospital about something.

    A question I've puzzled over is whether someone who is a retired professor, especially if they held a Chair that had a special name, should still be addressed as 'professor' on envelopes, as a retired Colonel might be.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    No, pizza pie is just pizza.

    Mariachi band.
Sign In or Register to comment.