Spending a penny and getting a pounding.

And also fair to those women - including those who have suffered from male violence - who find some level of refuge in female-only spaces. And whose best outcome is to continue to exclude male voices and male secondary sexual characteristics from those spaces.

This quote was part of a fascinating discussion, whereby somebody called Russ was asked to sit on the naughty step.
It is certainly true that women (rape survivors and others too) are going to be terrified to spend a penny if a man is close by. Or, if a man who is now a woman is close by.
But grown women are one thing.
Teenage girls are another thing altogether.
Grown women are not likely to pick a fight - they're too busy and tired. They will just use the disabled loo instead, so as to feel safe.
Teenage girls?
They LIKE a good scrap.
They do.
Has anyone considered the safety of a Trans woman, who encounters a bunch of teenage girls in the public loo? Feral, violent teens, who like to pick a fight and make it physical?
They will inevitably beat up the trans person, film it and put it on youtube.
Let Trans people have their own loos.
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Comments

  • That's complete bollocks. Trans women have been going in women's loos for decades unscathed, partly because nobody is interested, and nobody notices.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Trans women are women.

    Let them use the correct loos - the ladies loos.

    It’s nobody’s business except the person themselves.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    What Boogie said, exactly! We can't live in fear of the feral teens or they win.
  • I think we already do live in fear of violent and feral and unpredictable people and if a sexual predator (male) then claims to be a female and claims the right to enter into a female public loo... then... its a safety issue. How can this issue be resolved. Adult women will use the disabled loo, and feral angry teens will make a drama out of it, and get violent with the predatory male.
    This is bad news for the genuine trans person (mistaken for a predator) and therefore we need to give them their own facilities. But. We already DO live in fear of feral teens. They already HAVE won
  • Are you a new chew toy? Do you rattle? Is there some kind of squeaker situation?
  • I'm NOT sure. Possibly, the FERAL teens have invaded already, mind YOUR drawers.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 14
    Just where are these public loos to be found? They seem to be fairly rare, at least in this corner of Ukland. I can think of one, in our town-centre shopping mall, and another, near the Cathedral, and that's it.

    (Not that I go searching for them, you understand).
  • Not many around. My wife goes in pubs, and I hang on.
  • Tesco, Sainsburys, McDonalds, - hmm - you may have a point there. Apparently the ones in the Library in Birmingham, are used for sexual encounters of the consensual kind.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 14
    Yes, the supermarkets have them. We don't have big enough libraries here to warrant loos as well......you're lucky if you can find more than one book...

    What is the source of your information about the Birmingham Library? Enquiring Minds need to know.....
    :warning:
  • Yes, the supermarkets have them. We don't have big enough libraries here to warrant loos as well......you're lucky if you can find more than one book...

    What is the source of your information about the Birmingham Library? Enquiring Minds need to know.....
    :warning:

    Phd students in Birmingham.
    So far, none of them have offered to do a thesis on the problem.
    What a pity
    It would make for saucy studies.
  • :lol:

    But seriously, put a man in a dress and get him to use a ladies loo and his safety would be at risk. He can call himself whatever he likes. Man, Woman, Pixie Dust fluffy cakes, The reality is that women are violent, especially when they've been on the drink, drugs, etc and its just not a good idea to do this. Especially not in Birmingham. The idea that young females are passive and won't react - I honestly don't know where that idea comes from.
  • Are you a new chew toy? Do you rattle? Is there some kind of squeaker situation?
    He mentioned Peterson on another thread. I assume this is Jordan.

    He's also started out one the ship by starting threads and not discussing existing ones. He may resemble his idol.

    He's come to teach. Not to discuss. Grinding his axe. 52 of one to 48 of another.
  • tessaBtessaB Shipmate
    Oh for heaven's sake! Where did this idea of predatory males dressing up as women in order to invade women's spaces come from? I would have thought that men who are so invested in their own brand of toxic masculinity that they think all women are potential targets would think it demeaning to put on a dress apart from the purposes of mocking women. I doubt they would get as far as the door of a women's toilet.
    A genuine trans woman often wants to get in and out as quickly as they can. In fact, I bet that most trans women will do anything they can to avoid using a public toilet.
    Let women (whether trans or cis) be women and stop using straw men in the guise of feral teens to bash them.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    @tessaB said - Let women (whether trans or cis) be women and stop using straw men in the guise of feral teens to bash them.

    Exactly.

    This is transphobia disguised as concern. 🙄
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 14
    :lol:

    But seriously, put a man in a dress and get him to use a ladies loo and his safety would be at risk. He can call himself whatever he likes. Man, Woman, Pixie Dust fluffy cakes, The reality is that women are violent, especially when they've been on the drink, drugs, etc and its just not a good idea to do this. Especially not in Birmingham. The idea that young females are passive and won't react - I honestly don't know where that idea comes from.

    Trans women are already using women's bogs. How many have been beaten up as a result?

    I imagine the number to first approximation is possibly a value between -1 and 1. Rather like the number of people assaulted by a transwoman (real or feigned) in the bogs or deterred from using a women's bog.

    But what are facts when you are drinking from the Jordan Peterson well?

  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    Oh dear. I had such hopes for Peaceoftheaction666 when s/he started the Dogs in Heaven thread... I'm so disappointed now.
  • Transparent Trollery.

    Just walk away.
  • But...but....this is Hell! Popcorn and peanuts first, please!
    :wink:

    @NicoleMR - just so.
  • Transparent Trollery.

    Just walk away.

    Transphobic Trollery.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    Oh dear. I had such hopes for Peaceoftheaction666 when s/he started the Dogs in Heaven thread... I'm so disappointed now.

    Even that degenerated to ridiculous comments and personal attack.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    And since we're in Hell...

    Let's look at the record thus far.

    Conspiracy theory running close to Islamophobic (Islam is going to be foisted on Europe) and anti-semitic (Soros is plotting [insert evil plot here]) tropes.

    Children who hurt dogs deserve to be savaged to death and their deaths not mourned.

    We (well I) am just saying things to attack people like poor widdle PeaceOfBollocks666.

    We'll all be apologising in the future for not seeing PeasGardenOrMushy666's right about all this.

    Troll or Wankpuffin? Buggered if I know.
  • Am I imagining it, or has there been a rash of these people recently?
    :confused:
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    The "666" in his/her name had me wondering...
  • What is it about being in a room labelled toilet that supposedly makes you more unsafe than being in any other room ?

    It’s not like you strip off next to the sink.

    Also most people are sexually assaulted by people they know, usually in houses (whilst houses tend to have unisex toilets, there is no evidence that this is the most common room for such an assault) rather than public toilets.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Troll.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Not many around. My wife goes in pubs, and I hang on.

    I went in a country pub once and the publican made it clear that he expected us to buy a drink. I felt that it was somewhat defeating the porpoise.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    Not many around. My wife goes in pubs, and I hang on.

    I went in a country pub once and the publican made it clear that he expected us to buy a drink. I felt that it was somewhat defeating the porpoise.

    I'm inclined to agree if you have to duel any kind of marine life before being allowed to use the toilet.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate
    That’s if the mammal in question is even around - God is frequently walking His porpoise out.
  • I'm inclined to agree if you have to duel any kind of marine life before being allowed to use the toilet.
    A crab sandwich might be nice, mind you, at the seaside. But not a requirement.

  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    While pieceoftheaction666's handle might be somewhat unconventional, and their sudden appearance on the board slightly startling to the hanky-clutchers among us, they have done nothing wrong so far on this particular board.

    So lay off the accusations of sub-bridge-dwelling denizens, please. It's got old, quickly. Rest assured your ever-vigilant crew are, like the guards in Bentham's Panopticon, seeing all and hearing all.

    DT
    HH
  • [Meekly] Yes, Doctor. We hear and we obey.
  • AnselminaAnselmina Shipmate
    I think we already do live in fear of violent and feral and unpredictable people and if a sexual predator (male) then claims to be a female and claims the right to enter into a female public loo... then... its a safety issue. How can this issue be resolved. Adult women will use the disabled loo, and feral angry teens will make a drama out of it, and get violent with the predatory male.
    This is bad news for the genuine trans person (mistaken for a predator) and therefore we need to give them their own facilities. But. We already DO live in fear of feral teens. They already HAVE won

    Bullshit.

    Most adult women, including many teens wouldn't and won't give a shit about how 'trans' the other woman in the stall is, even if they were aware of it. Your personal experience may make you think otherwise. But I'd like to see the evidence for the crap you're posting.

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited April 15
    @Peaceoftheaction666 please understand this - Trans women are female. They are not men ‘claiming to be female’. They have always been female but their bodies haven’t. Transition is going to what is right, not from.

    I only have one friend who is a trans woman. But people who make her life harder than it already is, like you are doing, make my blood boil for her.

    :cry:
  • finelinefineline Purgatory Host
    I'm intrigued by this stereotype of feral teens. I work with teens, age 16 and over, in a college setting, and several are trans, and I observe among the students an atmosphere of easy acceptance of difference that I don't so much observe in groups of adults. While teens do bully each other, for all sorts of reasons (as do adults, of course), I'm not convinced that teens are the main perpetrators of transphobia.
  • FredegundFredegund Shipmate
    I wonder where these so-called feral teens hang out? In umpteen years working in Birmingham, I've never seen them. Certainly not in the Library - any library.
  • The fact that they don't exist is exactly what the Daily Heil and its shills relies on - the thrill of fearing them can be enjoyed without the actual fear of meeting them, other than by massive exception. My understanding is that they are mostly a danger to each other anyway, insofar as they are danger to anyone that is.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited April 15
    We have a wonderful Trans woman in Australia, but her name eludes me. Before she transitioned she had a successful career as a military officer and retured from the army maybe two years after she transitioned. She was a political and military affairs commentator before the transition, and a successful writer on cricket. She still does both, and is a cricket commentator of the special comments variety I believe.

    Anyway she's brilliant.

    We also have an arts/music/pop culture specialist who began life as Jordan Ratsakopolis, the brilliant creative from Axis of Awesome. She is now working on TV and elsewhere as Jordan Ratsakopolis the brilliant creative from Axis of Awesome. She is superb as well.

    In fact, on the basis of those two people, I am going to claim that Australia wins at Trans people. Yet again, Australia proves to be the best in the world, as long as you don't mention racism or the treatment of asylum seekers. Or dealing fairly and honestly with indigenous Australians. And you forget about the shit we pulled to pinch East Timor's oil reserves.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    We have a wonderful Trans woman in Australia, but her name eludes me. Before she transitioned she had a successful career as a military officer and retured from the army maybe two years after she transitioned. She was a political and military affairs commentator before the transition, and a successful writer on cricket. She still does both, and is a cricket commentator of the special comments variety I believe.

    Anyway she's brilliant.

    Catherine McGregor.
  • This approach is quite common on the internet, ostensibly addressing concerns for trans women, but actually producing transphobic comments, e.g, "put a man in a dress", male predators, and so on. Clever in a way.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    This approach is quite common on the internet, ostensibly addressing concerns for trans women, but actually producing transphobic comments, e.g, "put a man in a dress", male predators, and so on. Clever in a way.

    In a horrible way.

    A lot of misogyny has been disguised as ‘concern’ over the millennia. :rage:

  • Boogie wrote: »
    This approach is quite common on the internet, ostensibly addressing concerns for trans women, but actually producing transphobic comments, e.g, "put a man in a dress", male predators, and so on. Clever in a way.

    In a horrible way.

    A lot of misogyny has been disguised as ‘concern’ over the millennia. :rage:

    Yes, it has been used about women a lot, I think arguments against women's suffrage, would say voting will be too tiring for them. And sport, women's bodies are too frail. Also used with gays, wouldn't it be better for them to stay secluded, and avoid trouble?
  • The transphobic stuff is always very othering. I mean that it describes someone else from the outside, e.g., a man in a dress. But it struck me recently, that if I accept that they have their experience, whatever is is, who am I to negate it? If X says "I am a woman", fair enough. In fact, to negate that is very weird, because I am putting my experience ahead of theirs. My long obsession with gender sometimes shows glimmers of illumination in the dark shadows.
  • fineline wrote: »
    I'm intrigued by this stereotype of feral teens. I work with teens, age 16 and over, in a college setting, and several are trans, and I observe among the students an atmosphere of easy acceptance of difference that I don't so much observe in groups of adults. While teens do bully each other, for all sorts of reasons (as do adults, of course), I'm not convinced that teens are the main perpetrators of transphobia.

    Same.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    And the ABC announcer Ed Ayers, who until a few years ago was Emma.
  • It’s not like you strip off next to the sink.
    I have known a number of people (men and women) who do exactly this after a lunchtime run / cycle commute to work to wipe a flannel around because they don't have convenient access to a shower.
    Also most people are sexually assaulted by people they know, usually in houses (whilst houses tend to have unisex toilets, there is no evidence that this is the most common room for such an assault) rather than public toilets.

    True. But this is another example of stranger danger. Most child abuse is carried out by relatives and/or trusted family friends, but most people aren't scared of that, because they don't imagine for a moment that their relatives might do something like that. People spend all their time worrying about dodgy men in vans asking children if they want to see a puppy (which happens, but is rarer).
  • In 40 years I have never seen anyone do that in a public toilet.
  • The5thMaryThe5thMary Shipmate
    Are you a new chew toy? Do you rattle? Is there some kind of squeaker situation?

    This needs to go into the quotes file! Or put on a t-shirt!
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