Sydney Anglican Customs

As an American, I ask this just out of curiosity: I know there are parishes in the Diocese of Sydney that are out of sync with the predominant evangelical way of doing things down there. When the bishops take part in services in traditional BCP or Anglo-Catholic parishes (IIRC, there are some), do they wear episcopal vestments and preside as one would expect in the particular milieu?

Comments

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    When the Abp or regional Bp visit St Sanity, they wear what I'd call Canterbury or Convocation rig, the sort of vestments CoE bps used wear to the House of Lords. No mitre, no crozier.

    None has presided to my knowledge (trying to think hard who presides at the induction of a new rector). That's done by the rector concerned. The Bp will do the episcopal part, confirmation etc, and preach.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Deep, deep thinking while in the shower brings back a memory that the assistant presided at the induction. A small point is that the (A)Bp will introduce the Peace and also give the blessing at the end - even hold up his right hand to do so but no signing mind you.

    Visiting bishops from other dioceses do what they'd normally do - mitres, croziers, signing and so forth. One or 2 of the older parishioners will call the visitor My Lord and kneel as they process past.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    But NEVER wear a chasuble!
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    It did always intrigue me the chasuble was verboten (in 1911 Google tells me) -- as if it possessed some intrinsic power to convert the masses to Catholicism. And the most vociferous against it seemed quite content to wear a suit, and collar at a stretch, in their ministry rather than more regular clerical garb.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited May 9
    Many will get dressed up to take services, even to the extent of wearing leather shoes. Some will even wear a tie. And I jest not, but was at a funeral locally where the minister wore a red tie. The family, most of whom were from out of Sydney, were horrified. They'd never thought of asking how he would be vested.

    The first banning of the chasuble was in 1911, by the the Abp. In the late '40s Synod passed a canon formalising the ban.
  • LothlorienLothlorien All Saints Host
    A red tie at a funeral is almost dignified compared with the beach shirt and chinos at a wedding, or the blue checked shirt worn by the preacher at a Cathedral in what is now called Sydney’s geographical centre. He had been sitting in pew in front of me with his wife and I would have liked to suggest they get a room somewhere, such was the behaviour before he got up to preach. On way out after service I asked at the door when they had communion. Every couple of months , I was told, as they preferred to preach the gospel. I nearly fell over and suggested that the whole supper was preaching the gospel.
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    Lothlorien wrote: »
    On way out after service I asked at the door when they had communion. Every couple of months , I was told, as they preferred to preach the gospel. I nearly fell over and suggested that the whole supper was preaching the gospel.

    And they claim to be Anglican???!!!!
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Yes, they do. The one I referred to with a red tie won at a funeral would be one of them. The other in that suburb (near in distance, but now sadly cut off by an expressway) is much more MOTR by most standards. There's not just weekly communion there, but it's one using what was the AAPB or APBA.
  • rhubarbrhubarb Shipmate
    Some years ago I visited a Sydney church and was horrified to hear them announce that the congregation should help themselves to bread and wine as they left the church! I have never before or since heard communion treated in such a manner. Is this still happening anywhere?
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    angloid wrote: »
    Lothlorien wrote: »
    On way out after service I asked at the door when they had communion. Every couple of months , I was told, as they preferred to preach the gospel. I nearly fell over and suggested that the whole supper was preaching the gospel.

    And they claim to be Anglican???!!!!

    I've never been to an Anglican/Episcopal communion service where they didn't read the Gospel and then usually preach on the Gospel and sometimes other Biblical readings. I'd hardly call it an either/or situation.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    Some years ago I visited a Sydney church and was horrified to hear them announce that the congregation should help themselves to bread and wine as they left the church! I have never before or since heard communion treated in such a manner. Is this still happening anywhere?

    I'd not heard of it. That's no guarantee of course.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    I've heard of it in a pentecostal church ... which Sydney would probably feel more sympathy for than ang ang caff or certainly lib caff church
  • stonespringstonespring Shipmate
    rhubarb wrote: »
    Some years ago I visited a Sydney church and was horrified to hear them announce that the congregation should help themselves to bread and wine as they left the church! I have never before or since heard communion treated in such a manner. Is this still happening anywhere?

    Unrelated, but at an NYC Reform Synagogue I visited once for their Friday evening service, on the way out of the Synagogue at the end in the vestibule the Rabbi blessed a loaf of challah and wine in little sippy cups which the congregation shared. There was a bit of mingling afterwards but not much. I don't know if it was supposed to replace the family Shabbat dinner prayers or supplement them. I don't know how common this, especially since I am not Jewish! This was also a pretty liberal congregation with a band with drums and guitars, although the service, aside from the sermon, was mostly sung in Hebrew (led by a cantor) to traditional (or at least traditional-sounding) melodies.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Sounds like kiddush, which is pretty common in some form or another.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, 8th Day Host
    It has long seemed to me that the Sinny "Anglicans" are mostly a bunch of unregenerate Calvinists who pretend to be Anglican in order to hang onto the real estate. True Anglicanism, I believe, accepts some diversity in worship; the Sinny boys (and the ones in charge are all boys) demand lockstep conformity. Fie!

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited May 16
    I'd not call them Calvinist. Their general stance on the Eucharist is Zwinglian. Is penal substitutionary atonement (another of their touchpoints) Calvinist - again, I'd think it closer to Zwingli than any other. The disdain for a formal liturgy and beauty in worship is very anabaptist. If they're in any tradition, I'd say it was the Puritan teaching of the early 17th century.

    You're certainly right in talking of their lack of tolerance for diversity.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    (of Sydney Anglicans)
    Gee D wrote: »
    I'd not call them Calvinist.<snip>

    You're certainly right in talking of their lack of tolerance for diversity.

    That last point is two words too long.

    Three years ago an old friend who had married an Australian came to stay for a month, someone I thought I knew and had remembered with fondness. Talk about changed: she made the average National Front member look like a dangerously left-wing liberal wet, and the attitudes were even more extreme when it came to "sin" (which seemed to include practically everything) and "going against God's law" (I think if God had come down he'd have been found to be against His law too according to her).

    Never again :grimace:
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    An anecdote is not data. Despite strong disagreement with the theological position of the Moore College clique, for as long as I can recall, the archbishops and hierarchy have been liberal in all but the dead horses issues, strong proponents of fair treatment for refugees, better social security provisions and so forth. While they have tried to look non-partisan in their statements there's not much doubt where their votes in the ballot box go. I don't think you can attack the church establishment here as having National Front policies. I stick with what I said.
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