The UK Prime Minister

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  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited May 25
    Gee D wrote: »
    ... Johnson is so obviously not a bright man playing the buffoon but rather just a buffoon ...
    I don't know about that. I get the impression he's clever enough to be devious, and several magnitudes brighter than Trump. Not that I think he'd make a good PM, though.

    I may be wrong, but I suspect that if he'd nailed his colours to the Remain mast, the vote might have gone the other way. He was a popular figure: the lovable buffoon act, appearing on shows like Have I Got News For You and Top Gear; the success of the London Olympics.

    From my memories of his columns in the Telegraph before Brexit was being seriously considered, his views on Europe seemed to be fairly typical of any Tory - a bit sceptical, but pragmatic enough to realise that Britain would be better trying to mend any flaws in the EU from within. Maybe I'm naïve, but I was quite taken aback when he announced his support for the Leave campaign, and I can only assume that it was because he thought it would further his own ambitions.
  • As much as I would love someone to knife BoJo, I suspect that all the likely knifers are only too aware that the rank and file Tory members wouldn't stand for a leadership election without his name on the ballot - especially after Gove shafted his chances last time.

    My prediction? BoJo wins at a canter. Having already made it plain that he'll accept a No Deal Brexit if he can't get his way, he'll quickly realise that the EU aren't going to reopen negotiations. So No Deal it is in October, followed immediately by BoJo climbing into bed with Trump. A swift trade deal will follow, giving BoJo a chance to boast how easy it was. The reality being, of course, that Trump gets all he asks for. The UK has to get used to chlorinated chicken and total privatisation of the NHS.

    I wish I could be more optimistic.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Piglet wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    ... Johnson is so obviously not a bright man playing the buffoon but rather just a buffoon ...
    I don't know about that. I get the impression he's clever enough to be devious, and several magnitudes brighter than Trump. Not that I think he'd make a good PM, though.

    Rather than "clever enough" I'd say cunning. Being several magnitudes brighter than Trump does not say much. His likely election shows just how badly the Tories have slipped.
  • That would be the nightmare outcome.

    I retain hope that it will not happen.

    As an observation, of course Johnson's U-turn on Europe was driven by nothing more than a desire to further his own political ambitions. Everything Boris does is geared to that end.

    I have no respect for Gove after the mess he made of our schools, and he showed his true Machiavellian colours by becoming Mack The Knife - although that was mitigated to some extent by whose back the knife went into ... and further still by some of the more encouraging noises he's been making as Environment Secretary.

    But would I trust him?

    Johnson has to be kept out of Number 10. Surely the more principled Tories can see that?

    Or are they so driven by party political ambition that they will stop at nothing to remain in power?

    There are parallels on the left, too, of course. A Labour activist recently told me that whilst some anti-Semitism did undoubtedly exist within the Labour Party, it was all blown out of proportion by the right-wing media.

    But as far as the Conservatives are concerned, they are a party at war within themselves, and not just over Europe. There's a battle going on for the soul of the Party between the hideous populists on the one hand and the old fashioned One Nation types on the other - between those who have a conscience and a heart and those who are prepared to sacrifice principles on the altar of expediency.
  • I have no respect for Gove after the mess he made of our schools, and he showed his true Machiavellian colours by becoming Mack The Knife - although that was mitigated to some extent by whose back the knife went into ...

    I didn't really buy that schtik from Boris - 'after what's been said about me, I can't possibly stand for the premiership'. Going into the referendum he was a leading Brexiteer, and replacing Cameron gave him a great shot at leading us into that glorious future following the surprise result. I felt that Gove gave him a fig leaf behind which he could attempt to hide his considerable bulk, and sidestep the shit show he knew was coming. That shit has certainly stuck to May. And now - Well, now someone else has failed entirely, perhaps he'll feel it's safe enough to take the reins - which I agree is all he's ultimately interested in.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    I notice Rory Stewart has said he won't serve under Johnson, and I think there would be others.

    I think Graham Brady is a strong possibility because he ought to have competence in managing the back benches.
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    I hope that Rory Stewart gets into the final two, in which case, I shall vote forhim.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    In the event of adissolution followed by a General Election and a Labour win, Corbyn will be thrown to the wolves once he has served his purpose as a figurehead.
  • As much as I would love someone to knife BoJo, I suspect that all the likely knifers are only too aware that the rank and file Tory members wouldn't stand for a leadership election without his name on the ballot - especially after Gove shafted his chances last time.

    My prediction? BoJo wins at a canter. Having already made it plain that he'll accept a No Deal Brexit if he can't get his way, he'll quickly realise that the EU aren't going to reopen negotiations. So No Deal it is in October, followed immediately by BoJo climbing into bed with Trump. A swift trade deal will follow, giving BoJo a chance to boast how easy it was. The reality being, of course, that Trump gets all he asks for. The UK has to get used to chlorinated chicken and total privatisation of the NHS.

    I wish I could be more optimistic.

    Trade deals need to go through the US congress. The recently negotiated NAFTA revamp (known by various compositions of initials) is still in limbo for that reason. Swift trade deals are a contradiction in terms.
  • alienfromzogalienfromzog Shipmate
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    I hope that Rory Stewart gets into the final two, in which case, I shall vote forhim.

    He is undoubtedly light years ahead of the rest but that is not necessarily saying much.

    AFZ
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    edited May 25
    Hopefully he would be less London and South East centred then five out of the last six have been.
  • KwesiKwesi Shipmate
    Martin54: It's a 5 year cycle. US is 4.

    Isn't it a bit more complicated in the UK? Despite legislation post-2010, it still effectively remains the case that there is a maximum of 5 years between General Elections in the UK but they can be called within that period: in 2017, for example, despite on having been held in 2015. In the US, of course, the 4 yearly Presidential Elections etc. cannot be so manipulated.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    We only change the head of state when they die or abdicate. What's Mitch McConnell's term ?
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    In the event of adissolution followed by a General Election and a Labour win, Corbyn will be thrown to the wolves once he has served his purpose as a figurehead.
    I doubt it. The Labour Party's never been that strong on Fraternity. It's not that good on the other two. But in my lifetime, it's never deselected its Leader, either expressly or implicitly, while in government. That's Conservative territory.

    The Labour Party has form for letting lacklustre leaders limp on long beyond their sell-by date. This isn't the first time. They were in opposition, but have older Shipmates forgotten Michael Foot?
  • We all remember Foot.

    Such was my opposition to Thatcher, I continued to vote Labour throughout the '80s even though I knew deep-down that they were unelectable.

  • I suspect fear of Corbyn may galvanise Tory discontent towards Boris.

    Unless the Conservatives have toppled completely in a populist direction, they must surely realise that support for Boris will drive many people towards Corbyn, in a similar way to how people continued to vote for Foot in reaction to the ravages of Thatcherism.

    Corbyn has lost his shine. I've lost count of the number of life-long Labour supporters I know who are disillusioned with him. His fortunes would be restored with Boris in Number 10.

    All his Christmases will have come at once.

    Wise Tories can see that.

    The trouble is, the lunatics are taking over the asylum.

    Cameron couldn't keep them in check. Neither could May.

    Whatever our political persuasion, I hope common sense prevails. The only person who would benefit from Boris as PM would be Trump - or perhaps Putin too as he'll really be able to hold up an example of Western decadence ...

    Perhaps Putin is behind the whole sorry episode. He's engineered Trump, he's engineering Brexit, he's engineering a Boris Johnson premiership.

    You mark my words. He'll be wrestling a bear in the Siberian steppes this weekend going, 'Mwa ha ha ha ha ... Boris in Number 10 and Britain out of Europe ... Perfect ... Perfect ...'

    Come on Rory. Only you can save us now.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    My prediction? BoJo wins at a canter. Having already made it plain that he'll accept a No Deal Brexit if he can't get his way, he'll quickly realise that the EU aren't going to reopen negotiations. So No Deal it is in October, followed immediately by BoJo climbing into bed with Trump.

    That may possibly be what he intends - though at that point, the more business focused Tories will figure that there's no way they are going to be reselected, that they are going to be punished anyway once the consequences kick in, and they might as well make a stand on principle.
  • A stand on principle would be welcome.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    Conservative Party leadership selection/ election has a long tradition of coming up with someone other than the hot favourite:
    • 1964 Alec Douglas-Home (instead of Butler or Macleod)
    • Heath (Maudling)
    • Thatcher (Heath/ Whitelaw)
    • Major (Heseltine)
    • Hague (Clarke)
    • Duncan-Smith (Portillo)
    • Cameron (Davis)
    • May (Johnson)

    And perhaps its no bad thing that a "hot" favourite seldom makes it to the leadership of any party. Looking at recent examples (Eden, Callaghan, Brown) they tend to be just more of the same and come into the leadership at a time when a fresh approach is the main requirement.

    Who to choose from the current batch of Tory wannabes? Rory Stewart at least seems to think. God preserve us all from a Johnson permiership :anguished:

    Meanwhile, tomorrow Mr Corbyn celebrates his 70th birthday. Does anyone seriously think he is a credible alternative to anyone as PM: surely, on the grounds of age alone, the Labour Party cannot win a general election. If Corbyn were to become PM he would (at the moment) be the third oldest in history (after Churchill's second term and Palmerston), and both of those had long and broad experience of government office before getting into Number 10.


  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    The prospect of our would-be leaders falling over one another to butter up President Trump on the occasion of his prospective State Visit is too nauseous to contemplate
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    A stand on principle would be welcome.

    Well, more a stand on principle after they have exhausted their opportunities to become a minister and face losing their seat, but possibly the best that can be hoped for at this point.
    Meanwhile, tomorrow Mr Corbyn celebrates his 70th birthday. Does anyone seriously think he is a credible alternative to anyone as PM: surely, on the grounds of age alone, the Labour Party cannot win a general election.

    Corbyn seems to keep physically active and have an overall level of fitness that someone 10 years younger would admire - on the grounds of an aging population alone, you'd expect the average age of PMs to rise over time.
  • Meanwhile, tomorrow Mr Corbyn celebrates his 70th birthday. Does anyone seriously think he is a credible alternative to anyone as PM

    It is part of the whole tragedy of this that the Labour leader, at a time when Labour should be well ahead in the polls, is so inept and vacillating. I get it that deep down he is a euro-sceptic at heart but surely any dunce can see that the exit deal offered by May is a complete non-starter and that no-deal Brexit would be a disaster for the vast majority of ordinary people in the UK. Hence coming out in favour of revoking A50 is a no-brainer. He doesn't even have to give up on his "principles" - he can still say that there are things about the EU that he doesn't like. In fact, if that WAS his position ("I think the EU needs to change but it's better than anything being offered by the Tories"), I think it would give him credibility among the very people he claims to want to represent - those who voted leave but don't support what the Tories are offering.

    Corbyn's mulish refusal to see how things are going has been a disaster for the approximately 50% of the population that has consistently said it doesn't want to leave the EU. It has meant that Labour can forget about ever winning back Scotland from the SNP.

    As someone whose natural political position would be "left of centre", I despair of Corbyn.
  • RicardusRicardus Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    In the event of adissolution followed by a General Election and a Labour win, Corbyn will be thrown to the wolves once he has served his purpose as a figurehead.
    I doubt it. The Labour Party's never been that strong on Fraternity. It's not that good on the other two. But in my lifetime, it's never deselected its Leader, either expressly or implicitly, while in government. That's Conservative territory.

    The Labour Party has form for letting lacklustre leaders limp on long beyond their sell-by date. This isn't the first time. They were in opposition, but have older Shipmates forgotten Michael Foot?

    I don't think Labour can throw him to the wolves, can they? Someone can launch a leadership challenge like last time, but if Mr Corbyn remains popular with the membership, then MPs will just have to lump it. And I suspect that the part of the membership that disapproves of his response to Brexit will respond by resigning their membership, and hence their vote, rather than by voting for someone else.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited May 25
    Ricardus wrote: »
    Enoch wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    In the event of adissolution followed by a General Election and a Labour win, Corbyn will be thrown to the wolves once he has served his purpose as a figurehead.
    I doubt it. The Labour Party's never been that strong on Fraternity. It's not that good on the other two. But in my lifetime, it's never deselected its Leader, either expressly or implicitly, while in government. That's Conservative territory.

    The Labour Party has form for letting lacklustre leaders limp on long beyond their sell-by date. This isn't the first time. They were in opposition, but have older Shipmates forgotten Michael Foot?

    I don't think Labour can throw him to the wolves, can they? Someone can launch a leadership challenge like last time, but if Mr Corbyn remains popular with the membership, then MPs will just have to lump it. And I suspect that the part of the membership that disapproves of his response to Brexit will respond by resigning their membership, and hence their vote, rather than by voting for someone else.

    You are right to bring up Michael Foot: yes, there are similarities between him and Corbyn on the age-at becoming-leader front, but while Foot was seen as a compromise candidate who might unite the warring factions between the Bennite Left and the more centrist/ social democrats like Healey, Corbyn has never been seen as anything but divisive by longstanding members of the Labour Party. Of course, Labour in the 80s was also deeply divided over Europe (!) and in the end, the most disastrous thing that happened during Foot's tenure as leader was the insurgency of Militant with the ensuing chaos that caused - so far, so frighteningly familiar.

    The big differences are health and intellect: while Foot was bright he was not robust, whereas Corbyn is physically strong but intellectually weak, frighteningly indecisive and wholly incapable of seeing which issues need to be faced (anti-semitism anyone) and dealing with them PDQ.

    Yes, Mr Corbyn should have formulated at least some positive position on Europe since becoming leader but he has a major problem since the majority of the party he leads is pro-EU while he has spent all of his time in Parliament lamenting the UK's membership of the EU which he casts as only a slightly lesser Satan to the USA. Furthermore, one gets the distinct impression that having got to be leader of the party Mr Corbyn isn't going to let it go willingly, and even if he could be persuaded to make way for someone else (a) who would that be, and (b) the people behind Corbyn (Milne, Murray, etc) are likely to fight to the death to keep their man in place, and I don't see JC winning that fight.

    What a mess.
  • What does the ever-increasing number of Tories throwing their hats into the ring tell us about the state of the party or the likely outcome?
  • I think you are spot on in respect to Corbyn and internally I think both major parties are in a mess.

    Hence the flurry of candidates coming forward to drink the poison chalice as May drops it. They imagine themselves to be immune.

    I'd love to think that this will lead to a sea-change in British politics with proportional representation and the rise of sensible and moderate voices ...

    One can only hope ...

    It feels like hope against hope in a world of Trump and Putin, of rising populism and demagoguery.

    But hope is all we have.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    What does the ever-increasing number of Tories throwing their hats into the ring tell us about the state of the party or the likely outcome?
    I think there are two options.

    1. They all think they have a good shot of winning (or, at least getting onto the ballot of two names that goes to the small number of Conservative members). Which says that there aren't 2-3 really outstanding candidates, and they're all mediocre.
    2. Some know they have no chance but expect to get enough supporters that during the process they can do a deal with stronger candidates where they withdraw and declare their support in exchange for promise of senior cabinet position.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    ... they're all mediocre. ...
    @Alan Cresswell you are being too generous to them.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    What does the ever-increasing number of Tories throwing their hats into the ring tell us about the state of the party or the likely outcome?

    Mostly that as there is no clear candidate, the advantage of throwing your hat into the ring even if you don't want to be leader is that you can horse trade your 20 votes for a cabinet position.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    1. They all think they have a good shot of winning (or, at least getting onto the ballot of two names that goes to the small number of Conservative members). Which says that there aren't 2-3 really outstanding candidates, and they're all mediocre.

    Contrary to the direction of the thread, I think this has also been the case in the past - IDS, May and Leadsom seem to be of a similar intellectual caliber to the current lot (with Leadsom and IDS arguably worse than some). I think the difference this time is that there are a number of fairly irreconcilable camps around Brexit, each of which can be wooed to the exclusion of the others, so the intermediate stages reduce to multiple mini leadership struggles to get MP nominations.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Johnson backed the winning Brexit side and contributed to it winning. He's a clever incompetent; how long will the cleverness mask the incompetence? Long enough to consolidate power in a general election? With massive corporation tax concessions for a start, to compensate for the no deal Brexit. The turkeys will vote for that xmas.

    Unless Gove is the next Johnny Major. The parliamentary party choice that the constituency part endorsed?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    y...
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    This gives me hope.

    “Philip Hammond has warned Conservative leadership candidates they will not be prime minister for long if they pursue a no-deal Brexit, hinting that he and other Tories could be prepared to vote down the government in a confidence motion to prevent that outcome.”

    For me, whoever becomes PM, a no-deal Brexit is the worst of the worst outcomes which could ensue.

  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    And no deal will win a majority, therefore it's no-deal by default. Johnson doesn't have to pursue it. It's a done deal.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    And no deal will win a majority, therefore it's no-deal by default. Johnson doesn't have to pursue it. It's a done deal.

    Not if there’s a general election. A further extension, followed - hopefully - by another referendum.

  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Not if there’s a general election. A further extension, followed - hopefully - by another referendum.
    As best I can tell there are at least two rough factions in the EU: one that believes that the UK population are already on the path to seeing sense and that if we're given a chance we'll get a second referendum and will stay, and another faction that's lost patience and just wants to get the UK out. At the moment, the patient faction seem to be leading things but there's a question of how long that lasts.

  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    And no deal will win a majority, therefore it's no-deal by default. Johnson doesn't have to pursue it. It's a done deal.

    Not if there’s a general election. A further extension, followed - hopefully - by another referendum.

    There won't be a general election until well after the no-deal Brexit.
  • Sez who?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Why would there be?
  • Depending on who ends up as the new PM, there could easily be a situation where the policies of the PM are significantly different from what was laid out in the 2017 referendum. At that point, the Tory MPs will have to decide between loyalty to their new leader (and, many of them wouldn't have voted for that leader) and the manifesto they had stood for election on. The Opposition should pounce ruthlessly on any suggestion of policies at odds with the 2017 manifesto - in particular any approach to Brexit that's different from what Mrs May campaigned on. Whether it's enough to force an election so that the new Tory leadership can obtain the democratic mandate for their Brexit (and other policy) position.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    This gives me hope.

    “Philip Hammond has warned Conservative leadership candidates they will not be prime minister for long if they pursue a no-deal Brexit, hinting that he and other Tories could be prepared to vote down the government in a confidence motion to prevent that outcome.”

    Until they actually vote that way, they are the dog that didn't bark.
    For me, whoever becomes PM, a no-deal Brexit is the worst of the worst outcomes which could ensue.

    Unless it's the juche version of no-deal, a medium impact to long term GDP is orthogonal to a distribution of resources that leads to massive service cuts.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    This gives me hope.

    “Philip Hammond has warned Conservative leadership candidates they will not be prime minister for long if they pursue a no-deal Brexit, hinting that he and other Tories could be prepared to vote down the government in a confidence motion to prevent that outcome.”

    For me, whoever becomes PM, a no-deal Brexit is the worst of the worst outcomes which could ensue.

    Which shows that Mr Hammond, in claiming that the views of Parliament trump the result of a referendum, is making the same mistake as Mrs May and of remainers. If - and I think it is if - Parliament decides to take it upon itself to "correct" the result of the referendum by voting down the UK's departure from the EU, the result could make the current chaos look like a picnic.

    As for a general election, there doesn't need to be one until June 2022: do you really want the current sh*t-show to continue unabated until then, because that will be the case if the UK doesn't get out, deal or no-deal.

    Above all else, perhaps MPs of both Labour and Conservative parties need to be reminded that the manifesto on which they stood at the last election promised to "deliver Brexit". The Labour manifesto Brexit section started with these words: Labour accepts the referendum result; that for the Conservatives began We need to deliver a smooth and orderly departure from the European Union - for either party now to seriously talk about withdrawing from Article 50 is unthinkable, and while the Conservatives "orderly" departure is of course what any sensible person wants, it is not enough that a UK government (of any party) wants a decent deal and orderly exit if the negotiating stance of the EU is to deny the first in a (mis)calculated attempt to prevent the second.

    Mr Hammond can opine all he likes: I suggest he and all MPs take the time to watch the BBC's Brexit: Behind Closed Doors to see just how impossible the task has been of trying to negotiate with the EU. Parliament and MPs can want and wish for an impressive list of things in any deal, the bottom line is that the EU has been determined not to give way on anything from day one, choosing instead to bring up the relatively minor question of the Irish border instead and May and her negotiators (and MPs on all sides) have fallen for it and let it dominate talks to the exclusion of all else.

    No Deal may not be what most people want, not even committed Leavers, but it is likely to be what happens because realistically it is the only option that has been open to the UK from day one.

  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    in particular any approach to Brexit that's different from what Mrs May campaigned on.
    You seem to presupposes that the approach to Brexit that May campaigned on was well-defined enough to be different from anything.

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited May 26
    Why should the EU give way on anything? You don’t leave a golf club and expect to still play on the greens!

    The Irish border is far far from a ‘relatively minor question.’
    @chrisstiles said - Until they actually vote that way, they are the dog that didn't bark.

    True, but I refuse to give up all hope until all hope is gone.
  • Dafyd wrote: »
    in particular any approach to Brexit that's different from what Mrs May campaigned on.
    You seem to presupposes that the approach to Brexit that May campaigned on was well-defined enough to be different from anything.
    True enough, the manifesto was vague on what constituted a "good deal" to the point of being useless except to be vague enough that whatever was cooked up could fit within it. Though, there were things like the Mansion House speech that put some flesh on those bones.

    But, vague though it was the 2017 manifesto was several orders of magnitude better than the definition of Brexit presented in 2016.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited May 26
    So, again, no-deal Brexit is the default, Johnson/Gove does not have to pursue it, campaign for it, propose it or an alternative or call an election until it's done in October.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Shipmate
    edited May 26
    Mr Hammond can opine all he likes: I suggest he and all MPs take the time to watch the BBC's Brexit: Behind Closed Doors to see just how impossible the task has been of trying to negotiate with the EU. Parliament and MPs can want and wish for an impressive list of things in any deal, the bottom line is that the EU has been determined not to give way on anything from day one

    Trade deals take a long time to do -- therefore if Britain wanted to get one quickly, it was going to be limited to an existing off the shelf deal with minor modifications, or the UK can go for economic year zero and try and build up a set of trade deals from scratch.

    Sadly, reality doesn't alter just because the UK vows to 'thcream and thcream till I'm thick'

    And if you are tempted to shoot for juche as a negotiation tactic, bear in mind that the UK is also a country where people rang the police because a fast food restaurant ran out of chicken.

  • tessaBtessaB Shipmate
    Please God, not Dominic Raab. He is my MP and a more slimy, self-serving bag of whiney entitled shit would be difficult to find. Not only does he think that feminists are 'obnoxious bigots' but he thinks that the government equalities office is pointless and should be abolished. When we had a charity abseil down our church tower last year to raise funds for the church, he did the abseil as a photo op and didn't give us a penny! Bastard!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    tessaB wrote: »
    Please God, not Dominic Raab. He is my MP and a more slimy, self-serving bag of whiney entitled shit would be difficult to find. Not only does he think that feminists are 'obnoxious bigots' but he thinks that the government equalities office is pointless and should be abolished. When we had a charity abseil down our church tower last year to raise funds for the church, he did the abseil as a photo op and didn't give us a penny! Bastard!

    What do you expect? Slimy Tory is Slimy Tory.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    tessaB wrote: »
    Please God, not Dominic Raab. He is my MP and a more slimy, self-serving bag of whiney entitled shit would be difficult to find. Not only does he think that feminists are 'obnoxious bigots' but he thinks that the government equalities office is pointless and should be abolished. When we had a charity abseil down our church tower last year to raise funds for the church, he did the abseil as a photo op and didn't give us a penny! Bastard!
    Thank you for that. I've never met him but what you say confirms the impression I've picked up.
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