Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
The trouble is that the best the present UK government seems capable of is woefully inadequate.
I agree.
If I was this bad at work I would be told to buck my ideas up.
I agree the government is stuck between a rock and a hard place in some ways and has done some good stuff, but thousands have gone to businesses that over charge and keep money to themselves, and to businesses that provide inadequate PPE. That is just off the top of my head. At this time wasting money is criminal. Money that could be invested back into the community or the NHS
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
Emergency National Government required now. Without Dim Jon Sun. He must resign.
The Tories should appoint an Acting PM (no time for a leadership election) and Starmer should be Acting Deputy PM.
An Emergency Cabinet should be formed including the First Ministers of the devolved administrations.
My only objection is to the fact that there is no-one IMHO in the Tory party who is capable of acting as PM...
I think this is an excellent idea. Perhaps Theresa Mayhem would be willing to do it - I am feeling nostalgic for the halcyon days when I thought *she* was the worst PM of my lifetime... I'd settle for anyone who believes in the rule of law at this point. Which excludes the whole of the present Cabinet.
Emergency National Government required now. Without Dim Jon Sun. He must resign.
The Tories should appoint an Acting PM (no time for a leadership election) and Starmer should be Acting Deputy PM.
An Emergency Cabinet should be formed including the First Ministers of the devolved administrations.
My only objection is to the fact that there is no-one IMHO in the Tory party who is capable of acting as PM...
I think this is an excellent idea. Perhaps Theresa Mayhem would be willing to do it - I am feeling nostalgic for the halcyon days when I thought *she* was the worst PM of my lifetime... I'd settle for anyone who believes in the rule of law at this point. Which excludes the whole of the present Cabinet.
She was.
Just didn't hold the record for very long.
The big difference between May and Johnson is that May truly believed (I think) that the best interests of the Conservative party and the best interests of Britain were the same thing. In Johnson's case it's purely about what's in his interests.
We have had three very bad PM's in a row... each worse than the previous one.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
We have acknowledged we are in unprecedented times. We have said the government is not doing a good job.
Looking at the evidence, as I mentioned up thread, the PM is giving contracts to cronies. They are taking the Mickey with the amount of money they charge.
The worse our leaving the EU is the more his hedge fund friends get. I have praised him for what he has done right and will say when he has done wrong.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
Sorry about that. I often forget that most of you hate all things Conservative
We have had three very bad PM's in a row... each worse than the previous one.
I don't know that I'd agree with that. May certainly played her hand badly but Cameron left her a hand nobody could play well. May made many unforced errors, but all Cameron's errors were unforced.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might be fazed. If you have to ask, there's no point in trying to explain it.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
I believe BF was contrasting that experience with interactions with you.
Actually, I was confused between my Tory b*stards and was thinking of Hesseltine. Though, he's no longer a Tory after saying it would be better to vote LibDem.
I did wonder if Alan's tongue was firmly in his cheek when he made that proposal. Either that, or he's had too many wee drams...
Seriously, though, our Lord Protector is looking distinctly unwell, and, if I'm not mistaken, is beginning to lose his hair...I wonder what today's pronouncements will bring (if anyone can understand what he burbles on about, of course).
The poor schmuck really is banged up between a rock and a hard place...
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
I believe BF was contrasting that experience with interactions with you.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
Sorry about that. I often forget that most of you hate all things Conservative
Not all things Conservative, but they do have some awful policies that hurt people who can't afford to live on there small wages.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
I wish people would stop saying Covid is unprecedented.
The 1918 flu pandemic was a precedent (never mind the rest of history before that), the sars and mers epidemics were precedents, swine flu was a precedent. There were pandemic modelling exercises going on in 2018 and last year, the reason the Oxford vaccine was built so fast was because they had been planning for a vaccine for “disease x”, for the next pandemic.
Infectious disease is not some out of the blue concept.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
This time we knew the right thing to do, and we have seen other governments do it while the UK government did not.
If no other countries had suffered much at all, I would have to agree with you
The competence or incompetence of one nation ultimately neither excuses nor reflects well on what another nation does. Comparisons are always interesting, theoretically speaking. But really, what matters to the UK is: has the UK government done everything it reasonably could under Johnson's leadership to deal with this pandemic?
Given the unpredictable elements of an unprecedented situation - but a situation nonetheless for which there have been protocols established by medical professionals since at least 2008-10, for those with ears to hear - how has the Government performed in a) responding to a crisis that was flagging up since Dec 2019, b) spending taxes and funding wisely on effective PPE, track and trace and consultancy fees and c) making the crucial political decisions about when to lockdown, when to release etc.
I would say their performance has been spotty to say the least. I don't want to take away from whatever long hours have been worked, whatever agonising has gone on, or the times when the PM or the ministers did indeed get tough when they needed to be despite the unpopularity. And the various economic packages, however indifferently administered, have been there and have no doubt defrayed a great deal of misery and financial hardship. I don't doubt the intention of doing well, or as well as possible. I don't doubt either that there will have been some emotional toll, some psychological cost on Johnson et al. It's fortunate they are well enough resourced to be more than adequately supported in the challenges of their work by the skills of civil servants, admin staff, parliamentary employees etc.
But the evidence speaks for itself. A very divided public response of confusion, compliance/defiance indicating a lack of confidence in a government leadership who either as individuals or together haven't really proven themselves worthy of public trust.
I think it would be utterly unfair to expect no mistakes, no wrong decisions, even no major bad episodes or bad consequences. Even the best leaders can make disastrous choices. But I personally find it hard to be that charitable in my assessment of Johnson and cohort because so much of what has been done wrong seems to be simply in keeping with what we already know about them, and have known for a long time. The PM, in particular, had an opportunity to step up, to go beyond his former pantomime image of loveable, bumbling Boffo Boris, but he seems not to have attempted to do that. Because of his carefully cultivated image of buffoonery even his properly serious moments were undermined at a time when the nation needed depth.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
Are you Bishop's little finger ?
@KarlLB is simply one of the many functioning adults capable of reading and understanding the short paragraph that apparently eluded you.
I wish people would stop saying Covid is unprecedented.
"Unprecedented" is one of those words that seems to have evolved in meaning quite a lot.
If you restrict the domain to the era of modern medicine (so you exclude the 1918 'flu and its friends, and everything before that), then that leaves you with SARS, MERS, and H1N1 (swine flu) as major pandemics.
Of those, H1N1 wasn't so terribly different from a normal seasonal flu in terms of infectiousness or seriousness. SARS was serious, but comparatively rare. MERS is also relatively uncommon. Plus, of course, SARS and MERS mostly didn't affect the US and Western Europe, which makes them irrelevant foreign illnesses to most people in those areas.
SARS-CoV-2 is both serious (particularly in older people) and is at its most virulent in the pre-symptomatic phase, which makes all the usual sick-person precautions (stay at home if you're sick, ...) comparatively ineffective against it. It's this that makes the "unprecedented" lockdowns and control of interpersonal interactions important.
As Andrew Rawnsley puts it in the Guardian: any Prime Minister might have made mistakes dealing with the crisis. Johnson, however, having the opportunity to learn from his mistakes makes the same mistakes again.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
Are you Bishop's little finger ?
@KarlLB is simply one of the many functioning adults capable of reading and understanding the short paragraph that apparently eluded you.
The fact that I refused to acknowledge it appears to have eluded you.
We have had three very bad PM's in a row... each worse than the previous one.
I don't know that I'd agree with that. May certainly played her hand badly but Cameron left her a hand nobody could play well. May made many unforced errors, but all Cameron's errors were unforced.
It's a fair point. And there's a direct line from austerity and 'hostile environment' to Brexit.
However, May knew the truth of No Deal but missed the only opportunity to stand up to, rather than pander to, the Brextremists in Aug '16 when she took over.
She was thoroughly unimpressive across the board. Remember she was also the architect of Windrush as Home Secretary...
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
Are you Bishop's little finger ?
@KarlLB is simply one of the many functioning adults capable of reading and understanding the short paragraph that apparently eluded you.
The fact that I refused to acknowledge it appears to have eluded you.
I considered the possibility that you were playing dumb but it seemed in keeping with your usual levels of comprehension so I decided, on the balance of probabilities, that you really were that thick. How disappointing to discover that you're not that stupid, you're just an arse.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
Are you Bishop's little finger ?
@KarlLB is simply one of the many functioning adults capable of reading and understanding the short paragraph that apparently eluded you.
The fact that I refused to acknowledge it appears to have eluded you.
I considered the possibility that you were playing dumb but it seemed in keeping with your usual levels of comprehension so I decided, on the balance of probabilities, that you really were that thick. How disappointing to discover that you're not that stupid, you're just an arse.
You insult me just because I do not acknowledge insults
I will not be insulting you. It's not the sort of thing I do. Have a nice Christmas
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
Are you Bishop's little finger ?
@KarlLB is simply one of the many functioning adults capable of reading and understanding the short paragraph that apparently eluded you.
The fact that I refused to acknowledge it appears to have eluded you.
I considered the possibility that you were playing dumb but it seemed in keeping with your usual levels of comprehension so I decided, on the balance of probabilities, that you really were that thick. How disappointing to discover that you're not that stupid, you're just an arse.
You insult me just because I do not acknowledge insults
I will not be insulting you. It's not the sort of thing I do. Have a nice Christmas
I wish people would stop saying Covid is unprecedented.
"Unprecedented" is one of those words that seems to have evolved in meaning quite a lot.
If you restrict the domain to the era of modern medicine (so you exclude the 1918 'flu and its friends, and everything before that), then that leaves you with SARS, MERS, and H1N1 (swine flu) as major pandemics.
I don’t think you should make that restriction, because, at the onset of a new disease our situation is not so different.
Everyone with any sense...so that rules out the *government*, I think.
The government is doing it's best. Why would they do otherwise.?
I'm not sure which thought is worse, that this might be the best the UK government is capable of, or that they've chosen to be less effective than they could have been. At the root of it, I think, is Johnson's cowardice. He doesn't like the tough decisions so he delays them, making the situation worse.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
In Britain in the Spanish Flu crisis we had 228,000 dead. I can't find a record of anyone criticising the government of the day.
As a comparator, to put this is politely as I can, that is a preposterous one. As a starter selection from the numerous reasons why, try these:-
1. The UK and most of Europe were just finishing a major war in which huge numbers of people had been killed,, and in the aftermath of which, particularly in central Europe, there was widespread disruption and starvation. There was also civil war in Ireland.
2. During the war news media were controlled and censored.
3. The ability of medicine to treat or control disease then was much less than now. There was also a much weaker sense that this was a public matter, or something that the public weal was even capable of doing much about.
4. The disease was a variant of influenza which, like Covid, is a virus, but viruses themselves had hardly been discovered if at all. Infections at that date were largely assumed to be bacterial.
5. That 100+ years ago. It was before any broadcasting. It is also now before living memory. Very few of us, and I suspect that includes you @Telford, have access to newspapers, ephemera, oratory or conversation of the time. However much criticism there was or was not of the government of the day, neither you, nor I, nor any other shipmate is likely to know or to be able to comment.
6. One cannot legitimately claim that Mr Johnson and his clique are entitled to be given a free pass because a different government under different conditions might or might not have been given more tolerance by the public.
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
The only people for whom the present government is "doing its best" are its cronies and the billionaires by whom it is owned.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
I rather thought you might miss the point.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
Are you Bishop's little finger ?
@KarlLB is simply one of the many functioning adults capable of reading and understanding the short paragraph that apparently eluded you.
The fact that I refused to acknowledge it appears to have eluded you.
I considered the possibility that you were playing dumb but it seemed in keeping with your usual levels of comprehension so I decided, on the balance of probabilities, that you really were that thick. How disappointing to discover that you're not that stupid, you're just an arse.
You insult me just because I do not acknowledge insults
I will not be insulting you. It's not the sort of thing I do. Have a nice Christmas
You insult by your behaviour.
Is that really your best rssponse.? What behaviour are you on about? Saying something you don't agree with ?
I don’t think you should make that restriction, because, at the onset of a new disease our situation is not so different.
Of course it is. It's about a year since Covid-19 was identified, and vaccines exist already.
Before that, one of the features of modern medicine is that we understood quickly how the virus was likely to spread, that it was spread readily by asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people, and so as a consequence knew exactly what sort of measures to take to restrict its spread.
One of the features of people being stupid is that despite knowing all this, our countries by and large fucked it up.
ISTM that it's not so much the pandemic that's *unprecedented* - as has been rightly said, they've happened before - but what springs from it.
The global devastation affecting just about everyone (in varying degrees, I know) may perhaps be legitimately described as unprecedented, along with (as this is Hell) the sheer uselessness of our so-called leaders, one Dim Jon Sun in particular.
Comments
Did you have a point to make?
Not meant as an excuse.
The trouble is that the best the present UK government seems capable of is woefully inadequate.
As far as our Glorious Leaders are concerned, the rest of us can rot.
Toujours gai archy toujours gai
I agree.
If I was this bad at work I would be told to buck my ideas up.
I agree the government is stuck between a rock and a hard place in some ways and has done some good stuff, but thousands have gone to businesses that over charge and keep money to themselves, and to businesses that provide inadequate PPE. That is just off the top of my head. At this time wasting money is criminal. Money that could be invested back into the community or the NHS
If no other countries had suffered much at all, I would have to agree with you
Not even after the war ?
I haven't asked for a free pass. Just an acceptance that it's an unprecendent situation
I find that a ridiculous statement.
I think this is an excellent idea. Perhaps Theresa Mayhem would be willing to do it - I am feeling nostalgic for the halcyon days when I thought *she* was the worst PM of my lifetime... I'd settle for anyone who believes in the rule of law at this point. Which excludes the whole of the present Cabinet.
She was.
Just didn't hold the record for very long.
The big difference between May and Johnson is that May truly believed (I think) that the best interests of the Conservative party and the best interests of Britain were the same thing. In Johnson's case it's purely about what's in his interests.
We have had three very bad PM's in a row... each worse than the previous one.
AFZ
I propose Dr Caroline Lucas MP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Lucas
I find every political statement that emerges from your vicinity ridiculous, and motivated by nothing other than "I'm alright Jack" mentality. That is not a position for debate; it's a reflex motivated by nothing other than sheer egotism.
We have acknowledged we are in unprecedented times. We have said the government is not doing a good job.
Looking at the evidence, as I mentioned up thread, the PM is giving contracts to cronies. They are taking the Mickey with the amount of money they charge.
The worse our leaving the EU is the more his hedge fund friends get. I have praised him for what he has done right and will say when he has done wrong.
I recently saw a video clip of a diver's close encounter with a giant octopus (much the same size as the human!). The diver said that he felt it was a case of positive interaction between two thinking beings, despite the manifold differences between them.
Let the reader understand.
The reader might. but I don't. What on earth are you on about?
Sorry about that. I often forget that most of you hate all things Conservative
I rather thought you might be fazed. If you have to ask, there's no point in trying to explain it.
Others may pick up the reference to positive interaction and thinking beings...
I have still got no idea what you are on about. If you have a vaild point to make, please make it plainly.
Or, if it has to be a Tory you could take someone from the Lord's. Norman Tebbit would put an end to this Brexit nonsense PDQ.
Still, if he squashed the Brexshit lunacy, I think we'd all be grateful.
I believe BF was contrasting that experience with interactions with you.
Seriously, though, our Lord Protector is looking distinctly unwell, and, if I'm not mistaken, is beginning to lose his hair...I wonder what today's pronouncements will bring (if anyone can understand what he burbles on about, of course).
The poor schmuck really is banged up between a rock and a hard place...
Not all things Conservative, but they do have some awful policies that hurt people who can't afford to live on there small wages.
The plain point is you are not like the octopus in the story.
*Imagine if Bilbo Baggins had been an Orc and you start to get the idea...
The 1918 flu pandemic was a precedent (never mind the rest of history before that), the sars and mers epidemics were precedents, swine flu was a precedent. There were pandemic modelling exercises going on in 2018 and last year, the reason the Oxford vaccine was built so fast was because they had been planning for a vaccine for “disease x”, for the next pandemic.
Infectious disease is not some out of the blue concept.
I take it you're not a fan of archy and mehitabel.
The competence or incompetence of one nation ultimately neither excuses nor reflects well on what another nation does. Comparisons are always interesting, theoretically speaking. But really, what matters to the UK is: has the UK government done everything it reasonably could under Johnson's leadership to deal with this pandemic?
Given the unpredictable elements of an unprecedented situation - but a situation nonetheless for which there have been protocols established by medical professionals since at least 2008-10, for those with ears to hear - how has the Government performed in a) responding to a crisis that was flagging up since Dec 2019, b) spending taxes and funding wisely on effective PPE, track and trace and consultancy fees and c) making the crucial political decisions about when to lockdown, when to release etc.
I would say their performance has been spotty to say the least. I don't want to take away from whatever long hours have been worked, whatever agonising has gone on, or the times when the PM or the ministers did indeed get tough when they needed to be despite the unpopularity. And the various economic packages, however indifferently administered, have been there and have no doubt defrayed a great deal of misery and financial hardship. I don't doubt the intention of doing well, or as well as possible. I don't doubt either that there will have been some emotional toll, some psychological cost on Johnson et al. It's fortunate they are well enough resourced to be more than adequately supported in the challenges of their work by the skills of civil servants, admin staff, parliamentary employees etc.
But the evidence speaks for itself. A very divided public response of confusion, compliance/defiance indicating a lack of confidence in a government leadership who either as individuals or together haven't really proven themselves worthy of public trust.
I think it would be utterly unfair to expect no mistakes, no wrong decisions, even no major bad episodes or bad consequences. Even the best leaders can make disastrous choices. But I personally find it hard to be that charitable in my assessment of Johnson and cohort because so much of what has been done wrong seems to be simply in keeping with what we already know about them, and have known for a long time. The PM, in particular, had an opportunity to step up, to go beyond his former pantomime image of loveable, bumbling Boffo Boris, but he seems not to have attempted to do that. Because of his carefully cultivated image of buffoonery even his properly serious moments were undermined at a time when the nation needed depth.
Are you Bishop's little finger ?
@KarlLB is simply one of the many functioning adults capable of reading and understanding the short paragraph that apparently eluded you.
"Unprecedented" is one of those words that seems to have evolved in meaning quite a lot.
If you restrict the domain to the era of modern medicine (so you exclude the 1918 'flu and its friends, and everything before that), then that leaves you with SARS, MERS, and H1N1 (swine flu) as major pandemics.
Of those, H1N1 wasn't so terribly different from a normal seasonal flu in terms of infectiousness or seriousness. SARS was serious, but comparatively rare. MERS is also relatively uncommon. Plus, of course, SARS and MERS mostly didn't affect the US and Western Europe, which makes them irrelevant foreign illnesses to most people in those areas.
SARS-CoV-2 is both serious (particularly in older people) and is at its most virulent in the pre-symptomatic phase, which makes all the usual sick-person precautions (stay at home if you're sick, ...) comparatively ineffective against it. It's this that makes the "unprecedented" lockdowns and control of interpersonal interactions important.
The fact that I refused to acknowledge it appears to have eluded you.
It's a fair point. And there's a direct line from austerity and 'hostile environment' to Brexit.
However, May knew the truth of No Deal but missed the only opportunity to stand up to, rather than pander to, the Brextremists in Aug '16 when she took over.
She was thoroughly unimpressive across the board. Remember she was also the architect of Windrush as Home Secretary...
It's a close-run thing really...
I considered the possibility that you were playing dumb but it seemed in keeping with your usual levels of comprehension so I decided, on the balance of probabilities, that you really were that thick. How disappointing to discover that you're not that stupid, you're just an arse.
You insult me just because I do not acknowledge insults
I will not be insulting you. It's not the sort of thing I do. Have a nice Christmas
You insult by your behaviour.
Quite often though, as here, he later shows that he was just being a knob.
I don’t think you should make that restriction, because, at the onset of a new disease our situation is not so different.
Of course it is. It's about a year since Covid-19 was identified, and vaccines exist already.
Before that, one of the features of modern medicine is that we understood quickly how the virus was likely to spread, that it was spread readily by asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic people, and so as a consequence knew exactly what sort of measures to take to restrict its spread.
One of the features of people being stupid is that despite knowing all this, our countries by and large fucked it up.
The global devastation affecting just about everyone (in varying degrees, I know) may perhaps be legitimately described as unprecedented, along with (as this is Hell) the sheer uselessness of our so-called leaders, one Dim Jon Sun in particular.