There have also been many events organised by Jeremy Corbyn's brother
The imbecile in question has a name of his own, you know. Your attempt at guilt by association is as transparent as it is petty (which is a lot, in case you were in any doubt).
Never the less he organises these events. No social distancing of course because "the pandemic doesn't exist"
And his name is Piers Corbyn. So why mention Jeremy's name but not Piers'?
Jeremy likes a mention every now and ten. I was glad to oblige
The government have made mistakes since early last year but people with the virus have not infected themselves. Thay have been infected by those who already have the virus.
The majority of those infected have been unlucky. Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless.
I can’t find any report of a UK-based potential super spreader event since the beginning of the first lockdown, let alone one found to be responsible for multiple infections.
Your statement that ‘Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless’ appears to be no more than baseless rumour or misinformation.
At the delayed end of the 2019/2020 Premier League football season many thousands who had not been able to get in to watch the game decided to gathered in a packed crowd outsidce the stadium to celebrate Liverpool's first win for many years. This is not a baseless rumour or misinformation. It happened.
There have also been many events organised by Jeremy Corbyn's brother
I agree it was folly. Many thousands is an exaggeration, though, and, happily, the statistics don’t appear to show a spike in Liverpool infections as a result. So only a potential super spreader event.
The government have made mistakes since early last year but people with the virus have not infected themselves. Thay have been infected by those who already have the virus.
The majority of those infected have been unlucky. Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless.
I can’t find any report of a UK-based potential super spreader event since the beginning of the first lockdown, let alone one found to be responsible for multiple infections.
Your statement that ‘Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless’ appears to be no more than baseless rumour or misinformation.
At the delayed end of the 2019/2020 Premier League football season many thousands who had not been able to get in to watch the game decided to gathered in a packed crowd outsidce the stadium to celebrate Liverpool's first win for many years. This is not a baseless rumour or misinformation. It happened.
There have also been many events organised by Jeremy Corbyn's brother
I agree it was folly. Many thousands is an exaggeration, though, and, happily, the statistics don’t appear to show a spike in Liverpool infections as a result. So only a potential super spreader event.
Maybe so but my point is that those there did not care.
Letter to the Guardian on selfish behaviour that risks spreading the virus.The author works in an office which is set up in accordance with government guidelines on reducing Coronavirus spread, yet the situation described clearly risks spreading the virus. The author is unable to complain to HR or anyone else because the set-up is in accordance with official guidelines.
That is of course just one anecdote. However, it is consistent with a lot of other data: that Covid is particularly spread among people in precarious working conditions who are unable to work from home. While going to illegal raves would be dangerous and foolish I am unaware of any evidence that there are a significant number of illegal raves taking place.
There have also been many events organised by Jeremy Corbyn's brother
The imbecile in question has a name of his own, you know. Your attempt at guilt by association is as transparent as it is petty (which is a lot, in case you were in any doubt).
Never the less he organises these events. No social distancing of course because "the pandemic doesn't exist"
No, not nevertheless, the actions or Piers Corbyn are not remotely relevant to this thread about Mr Johnson. I wouldn't mind but it's not remotely true to suggest that Mr P Corbyn is the only Covid-denier at large in the UK at the moment...
Ironically, though, if we're gonna talk about family members, there is a relative of Boris Johnson whose work is very relevant to much that we have discussed on this forum. I cannot recommend highly enough the brilliant book written by Johnson's Sister-in-Law.
And, coz I'm feeling generous, @Telford, if you would like to PM me details I will send you the book in either the print edition or Kindle; whichever you would prefer. I can even send you the Kindle edition via a ship PM.
The government have made mistakes since early last year but people with the virus have not infected themselves. Thay have been infected by those who already have the virus.
The majority of those infected have been unlucky. Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless.
I can’t find any report of a UK-based potential super spreader event since the beginning of the first lockdown, let alone one found to be responsible for multiple infections.
Your statement that ‘Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless’ appears to be no more than baseless rumour or misinformation.
At the delayed end of the 2019/2020 Premier League football season many thousands who had not been able to get in to watch the game decided to gathered in a packed crowd outsidce the stadium to celebrate Liverpool's first win for many years. This is not a baseless rumour or misinformation. It happened.
There have also been many events organised by Jeremy Corbyn's brother
I agree it was folly. Many thousands is an exaggeration, though, and, happily, the statistics don’t appear to show a spike in Liverpool infections as a result. So only a potential super spreader event.
Maybe so but my point is that those there did not care.
I agree that there are people who act selfishly or recklessly and cause virus spread. I disagree that there are many of them. Taking the population overall, it is only a few who behave in this way.
There have also been many events organised by Jeremy Corbyn's brother
The imbecile in question has a name of his own, you know. Your attempt at guilt by association is as transparent as it is petty (which is a lot, in case you were in any doubt).
Never the less he organises these events. No social distancing of course because "the pandemic doesn't exist"
No, not nevertheless, the actions or Piers Corbyn are not remotely relevant to this thread about Mr Johnson. I wouldn't mind but it's not remotely true to suggest that Mr P Corbyn is the only Covid-denier at large in the UK at the moment...
Posters have said that Boris Johnson is to blame for all the Covid deaths. My point is that Piers Corbyn and people like him are also responsible. That's the relevance
Ironically, though, if we're gonna talk about family members, there is a relative of Boris Johnson whose work is very relevant to much that we have discussed on this forum. I cannot recommend highly enough the brilliant book written by Johnson's Sister-in-Law.
And, coz I'm feeling generous, @Telford, if you would like to PM me details I will send you the book in either the print edition or Kindle; whichever you would prefer. I can even send you the Kindle edition via a ship PM.
I agree that there are people who act selfishly or recklessly and cause virus spread. I disagree that there are many of them. Taking the population overall, it is only a few who behave in this way.
The truth is that we will never know exactly when and how the majority of those infected got infected
The truth is that we will never know exactly when and how the majority of those infected got infected
Um, that's not really true. Working out where an individual became infected can sometimes be straight-forward and sometimes impossible (and sometimes somewhere in-between). However, a lot of work is done to work out where the big risks of infection are. It is often the case that we can have a really good idea where a large number of people were infected. Indeed if you have viral isolates you can sequence the virus and track its evolution and thus its progress through a population very effectively.
There is plenty of data to show the sources of infection and the kind of event you are referring to are not a major source. (Based on the data I've seen).
If the government had built on the expertise in public health departments to establish a functional contact tracing system we'd have a much better idea of where people got infected. But, instead Johnson thought is was much better to give his chums in Serco £12b to build a contact tracing system from scratch, which being Serco with no expertise in anything except failing ... failed.
I agree that there are people who act selfishly or recklessly and cause virus spread. I disagree that there are many of them. Taking the population overall, it is only a few who behave in this way.
The truth is that we will never know exactly when and how the majority of those infected got infected
If that is what you truly believe, then you had no basis for making the statement that “Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless.”
Look at the rehabilitation of George W in some parts of the US liberal scene.
To be fair, I think a lot of that is because when you stand him next to Mr. Trump, he looks like a functional adult.
The Middle East and 500K Iraqis (and their families) may want to disagree with that -- for all Trump's myriad faults he probably generated less of an overseas mess that a large number of his predecessors.
But back to Johnson, I'm guessing they'll play up the 'liberal eccentric' angle and paper over the Covid debacle as 'not quite the man for that moment'.
Look at the rehabilitation of George W in some parts of the US liberal scene.
To be fair, I think a lot of that is because when you stand him next to Mr. Trump, he looks like a functional adult.
The Middle East and 500K Iraqis (and their families) may want to disagree with that -- for all Trump's myriad faults he probably generated less of an overseas mess that a large number of his predecessors.
But back to Johnson, I'm guessing they'll play up the 'liberal eccentric' angle and paper over the Covid debacle as 'not quite the man for that moment'.
Depends upon how badly the economy tanks when the extra paperwork for goods really bites, and British firms start losing contracts for technical services as there are too many issues with visas and no recognition of qualifications. I think that when travel gets back to "normal" the loss of freedom of movement and restrictions on what you can bring back in your suitcase will really start to chafe for all those Brexit voters who still want to have extended Spanish holidays and come home with a load of tax free ciggies.
I think that when travel gets back to "normal" the loss of freedom of movement and restrictions on what you can bring back in your suitcase will really start to chafe for all those Brexit voters who still want to have extended Spanish holidays and come home with a load of tax free ciggies.
There will be a limit on how much can be brought back, yes, but it's been my experience of returning from European holidays that the cheapest duty free stuff wasn't available to EU travellers. The ones who want to bring back literal suitcases of stuff will be out of luck, but anyone wanting to bring back a normal amount may find it cheaper than before.
Is that still cheaper after they've paid extra for their car insurance, travel insurance, health insurance, mobile phone roaming charges, and their shiny new blue passport?
Is that still cheaper after they've paid extra for their car insurance, travel insurance, health insurance, mobile phone roaming charges, and their shiny new blue passport?
Nope.
Especially when you compare the value of the pound now to May 2016. But coz it gone up a bit in the last 3 months, people pretend it hasn't been affected by Brexit.
May 30th 2016: £1 = €1.288
Dec 31st 2020: £1 = €1.091
Jan 19th 2021: £1 = €1.120
1610 deaths from Covid today - the highest total since the pandemic began.
Lord, have mercy.
Where's Bozzie, to explain how this world-beating situation came about? What toddler's play clothes has he put on today? I suspect there isn't a sackcloth-and-ashes outfit in his toybox...
1610 deaths from Covid today - the highest total since the pandemic began.
Lord, have mercy.
Where's Bozzie, to explain how this world-beating situation came about? What toddler's play clothes has he put on today? I suspect there isn't a sackcloth-and-ashes outfit in his toybox...
How it came about is easy. Infected people have been infecting those who were not infected.
1610 deaths from Covid today - the highest total since the pandemic began.
We have had 909 in total. Severe restrictions from the start. That of course does not prevent tennis players from overseas complaining that they are required to quarantine for 14 days after arrival.
1610 deaths from Covid today - the highest total since the pandemic began.
We have had 909 in total. Severe restrictions from the start. That of course does not prevent tennis players from overseas complaining that they are required to quarantine for 14 days after arrival.
Spot the difference. (Allowing for demographic and geographic factors...)
The population here is a bit over 1/3 that of the UK and just under 1/13 that of the US to enable you to factor that in. There have been complaints, there have been spats between the various State Premiers, but the general system has largely been accepted. We're not long back from a walk to a coffee shop, then to a supermarket in the same suburb. We probably saw around 125 - 150 people. Everyone was wearing a mask.
There are lots of arguments and articles showing that the Government's mishandling has been a major factor in our world beating status as having the highest deaths per capita, but as Simon Wren Lewis pointed out on yesterday's blog (link) commenting on a YouGov survey asking respondents what was the main cause of the Covid19 crisis. His argument is that the Government has significantly deviated from scientific advice to create the current crisis, but:
most voters don’t follow events and their causes that much, and so gain information largely from the newspaper they read or the main news bulletins they watch. They probably will not know what SAGE advised.
so do not have the information to correctly allocate blame.
To reiterate earlier comments, the reason we have a rampantly infectious new variant is because the Government, and particularly Boris Johnson with his dithering, gave the virus the opportunity to mutate by allowing, if not encouraging, such high rates of infection by policies such as encouraging eat out to help out and failing to support the working track and trace systems we already had and abusing that situation to line another crony's pockets by creating an expensive white elephant.
It's tough being one of the right-wing leaders like May or McConnell, or indeed Johnson, who supported Trump early on, now he's gone and showed his contempt for democratic values. Who could have seen it coming?
I am not ready to call it but I could see Johnson gone in '21. The key to all this is Brexit. What I thought would happen is that they would be able to hide and obscure the damage being done. Now I wonder if their incompetence makes that untrue. If Fishing is a Bellwether, then he's in trouble. Not least because it's going wrong in exactly the way we said it would.
I am not ready to call it but I could see Johnson gone in '21. The key to all this is Brexit. What I thought would happen is that they would be able to hide and obscure the damage being done. Now I wonder if their incompetence makes that untrue. If Fishing is a Bellwether, then he's in trouble. Not least because it's going wrong in exactly the way we said it would.
AFZ
I am surprised how badly Brexit is going. Of course, a lot of it was predictable, and predicted, but even so. Rotting fish on the quayside is a potent image, but it seems to go beyond fish.
I must admit, the spectacle of Mrs Mayhem admonishing the Mad Mophead for failing to provide "moral leadership" raised a smile today... followed by bitter laughter.
I must admit, the spectacle of Mrs Mayhem admonishing the Mad Mophead for failing to provide "moral leadership" raised a smile today... followed by bitter laughter.
1610 deaths from Covid today - the highest total since the pandemic began.
Lord, have mercy.
Where's Bozzie, to explain how this world-beating situation came about? What toddler's play clothes has he put on today? I suspect there isn't a sackcloth-and-ashes outfit in his toybox...
How it came about is easy. Infected people have been infecting those who were not infected.
Another 1820 deaths, and here's the reaction from a healthcare professional, snipped from the Guardian:
Upon news of the latest death figures, palliative care doctor Rachel Clarke tweeted: “Another 1820 UK Covid deaths. This figure makes me want to weep, scream, punch a wall, smash furniture. As if the deaths alone weren’t devastating, knowing many were avoidable crushes me. These are mass casualties caused by the failure of government. Heartbreaking.”
1610 deaths from Covid today - the highest total since the pandemic began.
Lord, have mercy.
Where's Bozzie, to explain how this world-beating situation came about? What toddler's play clothes has he put on today? I suspect there isn't a sackcloth-and-ashes outfit in his toybox...
How it came about is easy. Infected people have been infecting those who were not infected.
Another 1820 deaths, and here's the reaction from a healthcare professional, snipped from the Guardian:
Upon news of the latest death figures, palliative care doctor Rachel Clarke tweeted: “Another 1820 UK Covid deaths. This figure makes me want to weep, scream, punch a wall, smash furniture. As if the deaths alone weren’t devastating, knowing many were avoidable crushes me. These are mass casualties caused by the failure of government. Heartbreaking.”
My italics.
Why did you quote my post and how was my post incorrect ?
We have had 909 in total. Severe restrictions from the start. That of course does not prevent tennis players from overseas complaining that they are required to quarantine for 14 days after arrival.
Apparently viruses behave differently in wealthy tennis players.
Comments
Jeremy likes a mention every now and ten. I was glad to oblige
That is of course just one anecdote. However, it is consistent with a lot of other data: that Covid is particularly spread among people in precarious working conditions who are unable to work from home. While going to illegal raves would be dangerous and foolish I am unaware of any evidence that there are a significant number of illegal raves taking place.
No, not nevertheless, the actions or Piers Corbyn are not remotely relevant to this thread about Mr Johnson. I wouldn't mind but it's not remotely true to suggest that Mr P Corbyn is the only Covid-denier at large in the UK at the moment...
Ironically, though, if we're gonna talk about family members, there is a relative of Boris Johnson whose work is very relevant to much that we have discussed on this forum. I cannot recommend highly enough the brilliant book written by Johnson's Sister-in-Law.
And, coz I'm feeling generous, @Telford, if you would like to PM me details I will send you the book in either the print edition or Kindle; whichever you would prefer. I can even send you the Kindle edition via a ship PM.
AFZ
T
Very possibly.
The truth is that we will never know exactly when and how the majority of those infected got infected
Really? And it's purely coincidence that you chose Mr P Corbyn as your example is it?
Um, that's not really true. Working out where an individual became infected can sometimes be straight-forward and sometimes impossible (and sometimes somewhere in-between). However, a lot of work is done to work out where the big risks of infection are. It is often the case that we can have a really good idea where a large number of people were infected. Indeed if you have viral isolates you can sequence the virus and track its evolution and thus its progress through a population very effectively.
There is plenty of data to show the sources of infection and the kind of event you are referring to are not a major source. (Based on the data I've seen).
AFZ
If that is what you truly believe, then you had no basis for making the statement that “Many of those doing the infecting have been selfish and reckless.”
The Middle East and 500K Iraqis (and their families) may want to disagree with that -- for all Trump's myriad faults he probably generated less of an overseas mess that a large number of his predecessors.
But back to Johnson, I'm guessing they'll play up the 'liberal eccentric' angle and paper over the Covid debacle as 'not quite the man for that moment'.
That would be a no then.
So either you haven't read and understood what I wrote or you're being disingenuous. Again.
AFZ
No you really haven't. You have stated that I said something I haven't and invited me to look for the proof you refuse to find yourself.
That is plain rudeness.
AFZ
Oh No!
The Troll thinks I am worthy of being ignored. My life is over... Wo ist me... etc. etc.
I did actually laugh out loud at that one.
Anyway, moving on; This article is interesting;
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-boris-johnson-nhs-b1789024.html
Essentially, it says that the NHS has done an amazing job despite the government, not because of it.
AFZ
There will be a limit on how much can be brought back, yes, but it's been my experience of returning from European holidays that the cheapest duty free stuff wasn't available to EU travellers. The ones who want to bring back literal suitcases of stuff will be out of luck, but anyone wanting to bring back a normal amount may find it cheaper than before.
Nope.
Especially when you compare the value of the pound now to May 2016. But coz it gone up a bit in the last 3 months, people pretend it hasn't been affected by Brexit.
May 30th 2016: £1 = €1.288
Dec 31st 2020: £1 = €1.091
Jan 19th 2021: £1 = €1.120
Source: https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/GBP/GBP-to-EUR
Even with the slight uptick that means prices for British visitors to the continent are 13% higher...
Hey ho...
AFZ
Lord, have mercy.
Where's Bozzie, to explain how this world-beating situation came about? What toddler's play clothes has he put on today? I suspect there isn't a sackcloth-and-ashes outfit in his toybox...
How it came about is easy. Infected people have been infecting those who were not infected.
We have had 909 in total. Severe restrictions from the start. That of course does not prevent tennis players from overseas complaining that they are required to quarantine for 14 days after arrival.
Spot the difference. (Allowing for demographic and geographic factors...)
so do not have the information to correctly allocate blame.
To reiterate earlier comments, the reason we have a rampantly infectious new variant is because the Government, and particularly Boris Johnson with his dithering, gave the virus the opportunity to mutate by allowing, if not encouraging, such high rates of infection by policies such as encouraging eat out to help out and failing to support the working track and trace systems we already had and abusing that situation to line another crony's pockets by creating an expensive white elephant.
You can't see the beautiful Unicorns? You can't hear the Happy Fishes singing? Alas, you must have voted for the wrong party.
"Oh happy day! Oh happy day!
When Brexit took the boats away.
It left us free to swim and play,
And live rejoicing everyday.
Hallelujah!"
Here's a report:
https://theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/20/theresa-may-accuses-boris-johnson-of-abandoning-global-moral-leadership
It's tough being one of the right-wing leaders like May or McConnell, or indeed Johnson, who supported Trump early on, now he's gone and showed his contempt for democratic values. Who could have seen it coming?
As to the infamous picture of May paddling palms with Trump, well - she won't be allowed to forget that...
AFZ
I am surprised how badly Brexit is going. Of course, a lot of it was predictable, and predicted, but even so. Rotting fish on the quayside is a potent image, but it seems to go beyond fish.
(Cough) Windrush (cough)
Another 1820 deaths, and here's the reaction from a healthcare professional, snipped from the Guardian:
Upon news of the latest death figures, palliative care doctor Rachel Clarke tweeted: “Another 1820 UK Covid deaths. This figure makes me want to weep, scream, punch a wall, smash furniture. As if the deaths alone weren’t devastating, knowing many were avoidable crushes me. These are mass casualties caused by the failure of government. Heartbreaking.”
My italics.
Why did you quote my post and how was my post incorrect ?
I merely quoted a doctor, whose view of the government's culpability is quite clear.
Apparently viruses behave differently in wealthy tennis players.
A simple agreement would have been sufficient if my post was not incorrect.