Oh I know. I tried to point out to a rabid Brexiteer that the "marvellous" service they were getting from their energy supplier was partly courtesy of, err, France but they remained adamant that EDF had nothing to do with our cousins across the Channel
That's irrelevant. Regardless of what your Brexiteer acquaintance believes, "getting it all over with", which is what you aspire to, has real-world strategic consequences which include the supply of electricity to certain territories.
And that's just the result of the absence of an agreement for fisheries, for which you seem to fondly imagine the leaving UK will keep the benefits of the CFP despite having already announced it has quit the treaty and doesn't want them. And that the 27 Member States its politicians and pundits have constantly snubbed and trashed in its press will let the jolly old Brits put things back to how they were before because... they (?) won the war for them?
If you keep scraping the bottom of the barrel eventually you get through to the bare earth beneath - and it would seem the barrel was standing on top of a dung heap.
Hopefully the point has now been made very clear and thank you to other contributions but just for completeness here's point by point:
Fishing communities have seen their industry disappear over a generation and are understandably somewhat devastated by this
There is a major, international issue of maintaining the sustainability of fishing stocks and thus there are international treaties for this
Fish do not respect international borders and thus one nation's over fishing is another nation's problem*
The Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) is how the EU manages this. It includes reciprocal rights for member states to have access to each other's waters
The UK's rights and obligations under international law are - like all member states - subsumed into the CFP. Withdrawal from the CFP doesn't make those rights or responsibilities go away
There have been major issues with how the CFP works but there were major reforms at the start of this decade
The biggest issue in the UK is lack of quotas for independent fishermen- the reason for this is that the UK government has given the UK quotas to big corporations and foreign-owned vessels
Dumping of dead fish has been outlawed but there is a major issue with UK enforcement
There is no possible way that Brexit makes the above story better. It is possible, depending on the precise arrangements, that UK fishermen may get bigger quotas because the requirement for reciprocal access to other nations' fishing ground will go and AIUI, that's probably a net gain for the UK. Hence bigger quotas, not an end to quotas. Unfortunately losing 80% of their customers suggests that the extra catch potential will be hugely outweighed by the lack of anywhere to sell said catch.
I know this coz I went and read about it. It's not difficult really but this is the key to understanding Brexit; The Leave arguments fall apart under examination: go on, please find something that Brexit makes better.... I double dare you! I haven't found one yet but that does not mean that there isn't any one...
[*]The biggest issue in the UK is lack of quotas for independent fishermen- the reason for this is that the UK government has given the UK quotas to big corporations and foreign-owned vessels
AFAICT The reality here is that independent fishermen have sold their quotas on, and they've been bought up by a number of corporations many of whom are foreign owned.
There is also the reality that that fishing industry is a tiny part of GDP. If we're leaving the EU to save our fishing fleets, we're fucking over pretty much everything else to do so.
It would be understandable had Cameron stuck his dick in a cod's mouth, but no, it's completely inexplicable.
It would be understandable had Cameron stuck his dick in a cod's mouth, but no, it's completely inexplicable.
On the other hand; in his book Cameron demonstrates that he either believed the same set of things as Farage or found it convenient to do so ("spouses from outside the EU" wtf).
If Cameron is the Buttock Face, Farage's mouth is the Arsehole...
The video is worth watching/listening to - if only because hearing the words come out of his mouth (he narrated his own book) lays to rest once and for all the myth that he was somehow a liberal.
The Sunday Times is now revealing that Piffle, when Mayor of London, used a ubstantial amount of public funds to benefit an American friend of his, and the Opposition are demanding clarification (which they surely won't get).
It really worries me that the pair of them will start a war to deflect the investigations of wrongdoing going on. I’ve just signed an online petition against him dragging us into one in support of Trump.
Johnson lost a series of votes in HoC, expelled those in his party who disagreed (and had sufficient backbone to say so) then unlawfully prorogued parliament and now the court found against him.
Doesn't he have a butler (or a sexton) to do that? Perhaps not on this occasion.
When he was interviewed earlier, I was impressed (not perhaps the right word in the circumstances) with the sheer vacuity of his answers. When will his supporters realise that he has no political clothes except naked ambition?
But will the Tories want their leadership in doubt at their annual conference?
I'll be watching with some glee to see how they handle it.
(Doesn't this take some pressure off Labour's emabrassment at theirs?)
The Tory leadership, amidst a number of things, must be in doubt. Not a few card-carrying Conservatives must now be thinking that Jeremy Hunt wouldn't have been suvch a bad choice after all.
What the EU27 will make of this Godalone knows. The leaader of the UK's government can't command the legislature, has a shaky hold on his executive and the judiciary has just shafted him.
He has messed up in a Royal way this time, literally. As I said on the Brexit thread if I was a member of the 1922 committee I would be expecting to meet pretty soon
Comments
That's irrelevant. Regardless of what your Brexiteer acquaintance believes, "getting it all over with", which is what you aspire to, has real-world strategic consequences which include the supply of electricity to certain territories.
How the fu*k did we end up with such a shower of Rhyming Slangs as our 'government'? Did a wormhole from an alternative universe open up?
- Fishing communities have seen their industry disappear over a generation and are understandably somewhat devastated by this
- There is a major, international issue of maintaining the sustainability of fishing stocks and thus there are international treaties for this
- Fish do not respect international borders and thus one nation's over fishing is another nation's problem*
- The Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) is how the EU manages this. It includes reciprocal rights for member states to have access to each other's waters
- The UK's rights and obligations under international law are - like all member states - subsumed into the CFP. Withdrawal from the CFP doesn't make those rights or responsibilities go away
- There have been major issues with how the CFP works but there were major reforms at the start of this decade
- The biggest issue in the UK is lack of quotas for independent fishermen- the reason for this is that the UK government has given the UK quotas to big corporations and foreign-owned vessels
- Dumping of dead fish has been outlawed but there is a major issue with UK enforcement
There is no possible way that Brexit makes the above story better. It is possible, depending on the precise arrangements, that UK fishermen may get bigger quotas because the requirement for reciprocal access to other nations' fishing ground will go and AIUI, that's probably a net gain for the UK. Hence bigger quotas, not an end to quotas. Unfortunately losing 80% of their customers suggests that the extra catch potential will be hugely outweighed by the lack of anywhere to sell said catch.I know this coz I went and read about it. It's not difficult really but this is the key to understanding Brexit; The Leave arguments fall apart under examination: go on, please find something that Brexit makes better.... I double dare you! I haven't found one yet but that does not mean that there isn't any one...
AFZ
*sorry, couldn't resist stating the obvious here.
AFAICT The reality here is that independent fishermen have sold their quotas on, and they've been bought up by a number of corporations many of whom are foreign owned.
It would be understandable had Cameron stuck his dick in a cod's mouth, but no, it's completely inexplicable.
On the other hand; in his book Cameron demonstrates that he either believed the same set of things as Farage or found it convenient to do so ("spouses from outside the EU" wtf).
The video is worth watching/listening to - if only because hearing the words come out of his mouth (he narrated his own book) lays to rest once and for all the myth that he was somehow a liberal.
I'm shocked, utterly shocked...
I did wonder.
But it is Sunday, so Evil Thoughts™ are anathema.
She's a former model who went on to start a company in cyber security (a field fairly ripe with grifters).
ABdPJ already has no soul, so nothing for gingers to steal.
He can always arrange another war as distraction
<projectile vomit>
It’s worked before ☹️
It's traditional. Caesar's Gallic Wars were intended for public readings in the Forum, to keep his name in the public eye. Worked, too.
Should be. Probably won't be immediately. Boris will stubbornly carry on for now.
What a loser.
Hope so!
It looks as though he may be metaphorically 'dead in a ditch' - of his own digging...
When he was interviewed earlier, I was impressed (not perhaps the right word in the circumstances) with the sheer vacuity of his answers. When will his supporters realise that he has no political clothes except naked ambition?
Of course, that won’t stop him trying to hold on to it. 🙄
What a colossal cock-up.
No reaction yet, on BBC News, from the various EU countries, but I bet they'll have some pithy things to say about us...
I'll be watching with some glee to see how they handle it.
(Doesn't this take some pressure off Labour's emabrassment at theirs?)
The Tory leadership, amidst a number of things, must be in doubt. Not a few card-carrying Conservatives must now be thinking that Jeremy Hunt wouldn't have been suvch a bad choice after all.
What the EU27 will make of this Godalone knows. The leaader of the UK's government can't command the legislature, has a shaky hold on his executive and the judiciary has just shafted him.
Mr Corbyn's conference speech is scheduled for this afternoon - I wonder what he's planning to say?
Quite apart from the sheer bloody awfulness of it all, it's fascinating to watch, like a very long-drawn-out train wreck.