Politics, compatibility and ministry.

2»

Comments

  • Gee D wrote: »
    The congé shows HM's graciousness - she gives leave to elect, but then saves the electors the worry of thinking about the person to elect by providing the name of the suitable candidate. Casting a quick eye across the PM's for the last 70 years, I'd say that Harold MacMillan was the last who was a serious churchperson. Perhaps Douglas-Home.

    I think Blair and Brown both were. Just neither of them CofE.
  • Theresa May called herself a Christian went regularly to church, didn't she? Not quite so sure about David Cameron.
  • Blair was C of E while PM; he didn't become Catholic until after he stood down, although everyone knew he was going to.

    Cameron described his faith as 'like Magic FM in the Chilterns' - wavering in and out.
  • Ricardus wrote: »
    Blair was C of E while PM; he didn't become Catholic until after he stood down, although everyone knew he was going to.

    Officially, sure. In practice?
  • Gee D wrote: »
    The congé shows HM's graciousness - she gives leave to elect, but then saves the electors the worry of thinking about the person to elect by providing the name of the suitable candidate. Casting a quick eye across the PM's for the last 70 years, I'd say that Harold MacMillan was the last who was a serious churchperson. Perhaps Douglas-Home.
    Why do you exclude Mrs May? And Mr Cameron was (and still is) a regular churchgoer.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thank you both for your extra information, I'll tuck it away.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I've been on shore/off line since my last post.

    @Gee D I can see that how it might appear from elsewhere that bishops are appointed in England might have a bearing on how servile the church is to the politicians in power at any particular time. As others have explained here and elsewhere, this is much more how they used to be than how they are now. However, I'm not sure how relevant it is to the questions I aired in the OP or to the rest of the discussion.

    Clergy, though, in the CofE are in many ways under less direct episcopal control than they are in most other provinces.

    Besides, if the CofE were under the sort of government control you seem to imagine, as an enthusiastic Brexitist, the Vicar of Parkend would be expected to support for the Conservatives. The Conservatives regard the Brexit Party as stealing the votes of people who ought to be voting for them. That's why its members have chosen Mr de Piffle, to try to get those votes back again.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Enoch, I have a pretty good idea of the process but overstated the case deliberately. One, because the position as overstated reflects much understanding within England, and probably outside as well, as to what the position is. Second, a glance over the border into Wales may help enormously. Thirdly, because what still remains is bad for the health of the CoE and needs to go.

    Can I add a couple of points? Please don't talk of Mr de Piffle - he's far too dangerous to be spoken of like that. And I don't think anyone was suggesting that the governmental links have led to the sort of party-political matters as you refer to.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    @Gee D I agree with you that Mr de Pfeffel Johnson is dangerous and a bad man. That's why I won't refer to him as Boris. It panders to his chummy disguise.

    You may disagree with this. You are entitled to do so. I chose to go for Mr de Piffle, rather than either Mr Johnson or Mr de Pfeffel Johnson because it diminishes him. It's meant to demonstrate that he is not so great that he cannot be mocked. Anything that does that IMHO is a good thing.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I see what you mean, but it's in the same line of territory as referring to Trump as the small-handed on (save of course that Johnson can change his name and Trump can't his hands.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    OK my reaction to the OP is how the hell can you do both? Surely you cannot give the time and effort needed to both.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    OK my reaction to the OP is how the hell can you do both? Surely you cannot give the time and effort needed to both.

    Well, one of the two has to take second place, at least in terms of time allocated. Most of the politician/clerics I know have not had a full-time pastoral job. Generally, they did occasional supply and lots of weddings, although I have know a few who gave generously of their time and energy to individuals they encountered in their profession who needed help. Of the Anglicans, only one of them with whom I have spoken kept up their offices, but these days, that's hardly a rarity. The politician/clerics I have known (UCC, ACoC) have shied away from sermons, for obvious reasons.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    ... Most of the politician/clerics I know have not had a full-time pastoral job. Generally, they did occasional supply and lots of weddings, although I have know a few who gave generously of their time and energy to individuals they encountered in their profession who needed help. ....

    From my earlier post:-
    " ... 40+ years ago, there was an incumbent of one of the churches in central Bristol that has now closed who was a City Councillor, Labour I think, probably from the South Bank tradition. I think he would have claimed it was part of his ministry. There's currently a retired clergyperson who is a Police and Crime Commissioner for part of Yorkshire. He was at one time a Sheffield City Councillor, but I don't know whether that was while he was an incumbent. Perhaps there's a shipmate who would know. ... "
    I'm pretty certain the Bristol incumbent remained an incumbent while being a City Councillor. I'm fairly certain the Police and Crime Commissioner for part of Yorkshire is now retired. I still don't know whether he was a Sheffield City Councillor and a working clergyman at the same time, or if so, how he balanced and reconciled those roles. I'm fairly sure it would have been at a time when being a Sheffield City Councillor was one of the rather more controversial authorities of which to be an elected member.

    Please, does any shipmate know? And surely there must be at least one shipmate from that part of the country who knows how his involvement as Police and Crime Commissioner is viewed in the area?
Sign In or Register to comment.