Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • edited October 9
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I did a DuckDuckGo.com (I never Google, being allergic to having ads follow me around the Interwebz) search, and found this.
    You're a very good person to be unGoogling!
    mousethief wrote: »
    American here. The only use of the word "Shirtwaist" that I am aware of is in the name of a factory that burned in 1911 (Triangle Shirtwaist Factory; 146 workers died), that is a model for employer indifference to the lives of their employees, and the spur to all workplace safety legislation since.
    Heard of a panty-waist, but don't know what that is pr the shirt version. I had the general idea that a panty-waist meant someone you wanted to call a scaredy cat.
  • I'm familiar with the style of dress, but not with the term "shirtwaist." Whether that lack of familiarity has to do with being American or with being male and generally clueless about the what to call different styles of female attire, I couldn't say.

  • I've read several American novels set in England in the Regency or Victorian era, and all the women are wearing shirtwaists. Its harder to be sure but I think it's an American archaism rather than one of ours. However, I'm asking because I often get things wrong about my own culture, as this thread has demonstrated.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    The online Oxford Dictionary of English gives it as a N. American usage for a women’s blouse resembling a shirt.
  • Do you have pullovers, anoraks, cardigans, shells, fleeces. All types of jacket like things.
  • LothlorienLothlorien All Saints Host
    Known down under as a shirtmaker, not waist. Those I made buttoned down length of front and had a skirt with some volume but not voluminous.
  • Do you have pullovers, anoraks, cardigans, shells, fleeces. All types of jacket like things.

    Aye in U.K. including trench coats, duffle coats, cagoules (anorak?), shrugs, hoodies (love a hoodie!) and probably more!
  • Leaf wrote: »
    Shirtwaist dresses are classic fashion of the 1950's: a dress with a snug-fitting bodice, folded-down collar, button-front, short sleeves; a contrasting or matching belt; a voluminous pleated skirt. Think of "the perfect housewife" kind of dress, a Doris Day kind of dress. Google "shirtwaist dress" images for more (I tried to post a link, didn't work well.)

    There is a 1970's version which is simply a long shirt, belted, without the full skirt.

    Good description of a shirtwaist dress. I always thought the one you describe as the 1970s version was simply a "shirt dress."
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory was a factory that made shirtwaists, a sweatshop basically. Shirtwaists were a style of blouse popular at the time, but no one uses the term any more that I've heard.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    Shirtwaist dresses are still with us. (I tried to find a non-Amazonian model, but didn't have time for a thorough search.)
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    Shirtwaist dresses are still with us. (I tried to find a non-Amazonian model, but didn't have time for a thorough search.)

    Here's a $3,900 (£2,615) one -- you may have to scroll down a bit. I can't say much for the model.

  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    I did a DuckDuckGo.com (I never Google, being allergic to having ads follow me around the Interwebz) search, and found this.

    I like that theory. So it’s a bit like “50p each or two for a pound” - just market trader spiel?

    I don’t use it myself but I have no problem accepting “I could care less” as sarcasm. I always mentally stretch it out to “Like I could care less”.
  • From the internet
    'The shirtwaist dress got its name from how it combined a blouse top and a skirt bottom into one dress. Blouses, called shirtwaists for most of the early 20th century, were buttoned up the front for a style that was easy to put on. They used to button at the back but that required help from a servant or willing husband, a luxury fewer had after WW1. Attaching the shirt top and skirt also made dresses easier to slip on and button up. No fuss dressing was the way of the 1940s.'
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    The current equivalent of 'bon appetit' (good appetite) in popular British eateries at the moment seems to be 'There you go!' (where?), or, in slightly more upmarket places 'Enjoy!' (I'm not sure if this is intended as a command.) Is there a North American version?
  • We get the exact same phrases.
  • Some questions or comments about the pronunciation of various words. These have only occurred to me recently through listening to audiobooks.

    Shone. The first time I heard a narrator pronounce shone like "shown" (i.e. rhyming with bone, moan etc. I thought it was very quirky. Since then I've heard most (maybe all) American narrators pronounce it this way. I've never heard anyone from the UK pronounce it like this. I've always pronounced it to rhyme with gone, John, on and swan. Is that universal in the US?

    Hover. Most American narrators rhyme it with "cover", "lover" et. I (and I think all Brits) use a short "o". I can't think of any exact rhymes except the slang word "bovver" meaning bother.

    Houses. Sometimes the first "s" is unvoiced, pronounced like an s , like in the singular. Until recently I had only ever heard it pronounced "houZes". Is this common?

    The (before a vowel). Usually it is pronounced "thee" before a vowel. It just seems easier to me. So we end up saying something closer to "thee yapple" for "the apple". Nowadays I hear "the [glottal stop] apple". I think this is dialect both in the UK and US, but I'm not sure how common.
  • Some questions or comments about the pronunciation of various words. These have only occurred to me recently through listening to audiobooks.

    Shone. The first time I heard a narrator pronounce shone like "shown" (i.e. rhyming with bone, moan etc. I thought it was very quirky. Since then I've heard most (maybe all) American narrators pronounce it this way. I've never heard anyone from the UK pronounce it like this. I've always pronounced it to rhyme with gone, John, on and swan. Is that universal in the US?
    In my experience, yes. While studying voice in college, I was taught to sing “shone” to rhyme with “John,” but that pronunciation isn’t normal here.

  • Shone. The first time I heard a narrator pronounce shone like "shown" (i.e. rhyming with bone, moan etc. I thought it was very quirky. Since then I've heard most (maybe all) American narrators pronounce it this way. I've never heard anyone from the UK pronounce it like this. I've always pronounced it to rhyme with gone, John, on and swan. Is that universal in the US?

    I pronounce "John," "on," and "swan" all differently. "Shone" rhymes with "bone" or "moan."

    The difficulty with discussing pronunciation in written (or typed, or keyed, or whatever we're doing) form is saying that word X rhymes with word Y doesn't mean much if we're not agreed on how to pronounce word Y, or just don't know how the other person pronounces it.
  • Hover: I hear both

    Southern: short u su-thern and pig-like sow-thern are both heard here.
    I hear pillow as both pill-oh and pell-oh.
    bathrooms are sometimes bad-rooms
    and during saxophone call is very annoying

    The equivalent to "I'll get my coat" might be "okay there mother, maybe I'll go warm up the truck".
  • Equivalent to "I'll get my coat" might be "I'll shut up now."

    Pronunciation in these parts:

    Shone rhymes with "flown, moan, cone"
    Hover rhymes with "cover lover"
    Houses has unvoiced "S" for the noun, and voiced "S" for the verb.
    The = thee before a vowel (which is to say a glottal stop) here too. Definitely aids linking and speeds up speaking.
  • ECraigRECraigR Shipmate
    “I’ll shut up now” may be the equivalent, but I do love it when British shippies say “I’ll get me coat.” Gives me a tickle everytime.
  • Canadians do in some parts call "a gong show" the thing that makes you say "I'll get me coat" or "I'll shut up now". Do other places have gong shows? There's also total gong shows.
  • RublevRublev Shipmate
    My French flatmate in my student days took a class in English slang and came back giggling. They had covered all the phrases used for death including kick the bucket, pop your clogs, stick your spoon in the wall and push up daisies.

    She was tickled pink!
  • I have never heard "stick your spoon in the wall."

    There are also a lot of phrases used for "throw up" -- toss your cookies, blow chunks, hurl, drive the porcelain bus...
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    The word Quay. We know it as a mooring for ships large or small and pronounce it Key. Indeed, part of the Sydney CBD is called Circular Quay and it's the place where Capt. Phillip made his settlement. It's now also a railway station on the airport line. So many US tourists pronounce it Kway and have no idea what it means
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    I have never heard "stick your spoon in the wall."

    There are also a lot of phrases used for "throw up" -- toss your cookies, blow chunks, hurl, drive the porcelain bus...

    Chatting with Ralph/Talking to God down the Great White Telephone...
  • I only know Quay because of my nautical past, and an old Al Stewart song.

    Anent voiding one's stomach: heave, technicolor yawn
  • To see a man about a dog. Hang a rat. Thinking time. Lose your load. Sit down job. Appointment with sweet thundering Jesus.
  • ECraigRECraigR Shipmate
    That last one’s a mouthful.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Regarding shirtwaists, we call them blouses (which can mean something else for someone in uniform. Here is an article from The American Experience.
  • ECraigR wrote: »
    That last one’s a mouthful.

    Hope the barf not!
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host
    KarlLB wrote: »

    Chatting with Ralph/Talking to God down the Great White Telephone...

    "Calling Ralph on the big ceramic phone" is one I remember from my youth.
  • “Praying to the porcelain god” was one frequently used when I was in college.

  • Athrawes wrote: »
    It’s titbit here, when it’s used at all. In my family, we’d usually have a smidge.

    I'm in Detroit (for reference - I too miss being able to see where people are).

    I usually hear tidbit used in relation to information. We would have other quantities of food: a bit, a bite, a smidgeon, lots of options there.

    Of course, there is a similar-sounding word for one glorious kind of food - Tim Bits! (Donut holes from Tim Horton's, a Canadian chain that thankfully has spread through Michigan.)

  • It varies IMHO by age, location and reading. And one may use the form for one word (e,g, spelt) while eschewing it for another (dreamed), I believe we are in the process of losing the --t form, but the pace at which this proceeds varies by word and individual speaker.

    Anyone else find that these sorts of things vary in your own usage? I can't always pinpoint why. It's probably from hearing/reading the various usages, and whichever my brain pulls up first in the moment is what I'll use.

    For me, I never have used spelt, either written or pronounced that way. Same with learnt. I'm having trouble thinking of when and why I use leapt instead of leaped - probably because I just don't leap much. ;) I used to occasionally use dreamt (drempt?), but I don't anymore.

    Another example of variation for me was route. I grew up pronouncing it "rowt," but once I learned French, I found myself pronouncing it "root" if I was reading it, "rowt" if I was just saying it. Eventually, "root" mostly took over, but I think "rowt" still creeps in sometimes.
  • I have heard wise men say that Americans say rowt and Brits say root, but then there is that song from the 1950s, "Get your kicks on root 66". NOT rowt 66, although that would be perfectly understandable. I wonder if it's a regional thing, or perhaps a class thing?
  • American prepositions confuse me. "I cut it off of him." "I visited with her."

    What purpose do the "of" and "with" serve?
  • Re "route":

    I've used both pronunciations, but I think I usually use "root".
  • I have never heard "I cut it off of him" unless you're talking about lopping a limb.

    I visited with her means we sat and talked. I visited her means I stopped by her house.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I have never heard "I cut it off of him" unless you're talking about lopping a limb.

    I visited with her means we sat and talked. I visited her means I stopped by her house.

    Yup, I agree with both explanations.

    And I've always pronounced "route" the same as "root." Maybe because my father said "rowt" and it bugged me.
  • I took it off of him?

    Apologies if my first example didn't work, but "off of" is definitely something I see a lot, and it irritates me. As does "visited with", even though mousethief's explanation makes sense. I'm definitely old and crusty now, and lots of things irritate me!
  • I used my example because I'd been reading a book that featured a misused dog. The narrator cut his collar off him. No "of" needed, but one was included.
  • ECraigRECraigR Shipmate
    The “of” serves to indicate possession of whatever the object is that’s being taken off the person, I think. It’s superfluous since the mere act of removal indicates possession, but makes a certain degree of linguistic sense.
  • Do you have pullovers, anoraks, cardigans, shells, fleeces. All types of jacket like things.

    Aye in U.K. including trench coats, duffle coats, cagoules (anorak?), shrugs, hoodies (love a hoodie!) and probably more!

    A hoodie is a bunnyhug in Saskatchewan. We don't have shrugs or cagoules. Windbreaker is both a jacket and a farter/smelly burper.
  • Around here (U.S.) to break wind is related to flatulence. But a windbreaker is a lightweight jacket, usually nylon, sometimes lined, and usually with a hood. I've encountered them in English novels as windcheaters.
  • Yes the unneeded "of" turns up in a lot of places. It's one of those "tscha, it's English, what can you do?"things. I don't know how new it is.

    Prepositions are a bizarre and strange things. Why are Brits "in hospital" but North Americans "in the hospital"? At weekends versus on weekends? And on.

  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    Eirenist wrote: »
    The current equivalent of 'bon appetit' (good appetite) in popular British eateries at the moment seems to be 'There you go!' (where?), or, in slightly more upmarket places 'Enjoy!' (I'm not sure if this is intended as a command.) Is there a North American version?
    Those, and "Does everything look delicious?" I can't quite bring myself to respond.

  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    edited October 12
    I used my example because I'd been reading a book that featured a misused dog. The narrator cut his collar off him. No "of" needed, but one was included.
    Those unnecessary "of" usages bother the socks off (no of) me. My inner copy editor notes them when they turn up in the paper and the speech of others, and rolls her eyes. (I try to restrain her.)


  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    I have heard the 'rowt' pronunciation of 'route' ued in a drill command at the Trooping of the Colour (military parade by the Brigade of Guards - 'Parade will advance in column of route - quick march!' This would suggest that 'Rowt' is the older English pronunciation. But 'root' is the normal UK usage.
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