Rossweisse
RIP Rossweisse, HellHost and long-time Shipmate.
Please see the thread in All Saints remembering her.

Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • And don't forget that he called the U.S./South Korea War games as "provocative" and agreed to stop them--both Russian positions. And there are a number of other examples. With all due respect to Rachel, she isn't exactly giving us breaking news--from the start, Trump has repeatedly displayed that he is in Russia's pocket.
  • Dancing, bad; pussy-grabbing good?

    The mind boggles at these people criticising.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited January 2019
    Climacus wrote: »
    Dancing, bad; pussy-grabbing good?

    The mind boggles at these people criticising.

    This seems similar to the Republican geniuses who thought the public would turn against Beto O'Rourke when they found out he was in a rock band in high school. Apparently there's a significant faction of the GOP (or at least its political strategist class) who are generally offended by "fun" and "youth" and assume everyone else shares their hangups.

    Because fun is contagious here's AOC Dances to Every Song, a Twitter feed that features the AOC dance video re-dubbed to various popular (and not so popular) music.

    [ x-posted with the Trump thread ]
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited January 2019
    It has just been reported that the Mueller Grand Jury investigation has been extended another six months. This appears to be in context with the way Trump has been the apparent mouthpiece of Kremlin.

    And now Trump is saying the government can stay shut down for a year or longer if he does not get his wall. He is apparently considering using emergency powers to install his damn fence.

    On NPR this morning they interviewed some fishermen in Alaska who cannot go out without government certification which they cannot get because of the shutdown. That means there is no American pollock catch in the foreseeable future. That means no McDonald fish filets--unless they buy through Canada. I feel bad for the American fishermen.

  • Just saw this on the front page of Yahoo:
    Hundreds Of TSA Agents Are Calling In Sick To Work Jobs That Pay, Says Union
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    And who could blame them?
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    If Trump really cared about security against "bad hombres" getting into the US, you'd think he'd want to keep these folks on the job.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    It's their fault for valuing their livelihoods above Trump needing to show Congress who's the boss.
  • Perhaps trumpy will always demand to build a wall because the structure of space and time demand it. He's always demanded it. He always will demand it. So it goes.

    I like the fact that website for this link is called "scary mommy". Apparently there are lovely murals featuring drawings of his trumpiness and trumpkinite sayings in immigrations centres.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    In the light of Trump's reputation for scrupulous avoidance of conflicts of interest, does anyone know if Trump owns any land upon which this not-a-wall-a-fence-definitely-a-wall might be built?
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    While I can't answer that question, I do know there's plenty of border-acreage in private hands whose owners who will be very unhappy about handing chunks of their land over to the federal government for a concrete wall-iron-slatted fence-beaded curtain and who will sue, tying construction up in court for years, possibly decades, and THAT's in addition to environmental organizations suing on behalf of wildlife and destruction of their habitat, to say nothing of what this might do to the Rio Grande, which supplies drinking water to about 50% of El Paso, Texas and possibly other communities as well.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    US lawyers must be overrun with all this suing going on.
  • There's also the Tohono O’odham Nation -- a tribe of American Indians allowed to cross the border where most Americans cannot. It straddles 62 miles along the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    US lawyers must be overrun with all this suing going on.

    They love it. It's what they do.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth 8th Day Host, Mystery Worship Editor
    I saw today on CNN or MSNBC -- I forget which one -- that the current occupant of the White House was asked about declaring a national emergency in order to build the wall. He apparently said something like, "There's all sorts of stuff going on to justify declaring an emergency. The papers are full of it."

    Huh? I thought the papers were only full of fake news.

    If that's the case, then surely the need for declaring a national emergency is also fake.

    How long, O Lord, how long?
  • Graven ImageGraven Image Shipmate
    edited January 2019
    Oh give him some money for the wall in exchange for protection for the dreamers. He will never get his wall built. By the time it winds through the courts he will be out of office. From my lips to God's ear.
  • During the Korean Police Action, the steelworkers went on strike. Truman immediately called it a national security threat, but it was overturned in SCOTUS. The majority held the president exceeded the authority granted to him by the Constitution. If the guy in the White House tries to call a national emergency, the Democrats will likely use that case law to challenge Trump.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    ... Truman immediately called it a national security threat, but it was overturned in SCOTUS ...
    But hasn't Trump got enough of the Supreme Court in his pocket that they'd support him? Except, presumably Mrs Bader-Ginsburg, whom God preserve.

    Aren't those murals in No Prophet's link creepy? <shudder>

  • Oh give him some money for the wall in exchange for protection for the dreamers.

    That deal was offered almost a year ago and Trump rejected it. The point of the wall isn't any kind of security measure, it's to "own the libs". As such, any kind of bipartisan deal which funds the wall defeats its true purpose.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    In case you're wondering about The Donald's willingness to let the shutdown go on for months, even years, the answer may lie here:
    https://publicintegrity.org/federal-politics/federal-election-commission-chairwoman-government-shutdown-is-incredibly-wasteful-and-unproductive/
  • Trump himself is a TV character and his shutdown is a jump-the shark moment. With the turnover in Congress, it's also an end-of-season cliffhanger. Unfortunately, Shonda isn't running this show and it's not reality TV, it's real life. Vlad is the showrunner for The Reality President and as far as he's concerned, a non-functioning USA government is exactly what he wants. The Siberian Candidate is in the Oval Office.

    That's the real problem, my former fellow Americans: your country is being run by a traitor who is an operative of the Russian President. A non-functioning USA government is the best present ever for Putin. If Turtle Man* has been compromised as well, it won't be functioning again any time soon.

    *Mitch McConnell
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    The shutdown is also a potentially immense financial windfall for Trump. As the linked article shows, almost nobody is currently minding the Campaign Finance store due to the shutdown, and nobody will be minding it until government starts running again. That leaves Trump free to commit campaign finance violations in full view left, right, and center, raking in treasonous questionable donations by the semi-truck full and potentially buying himself another 4 year in office.
  • I am so sorry for you all. And for those who work for the government who must be struggling in many ways right now.

    Well done to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on calling him a racist as I heard on the news. She'll no doubt he shouted down by those who love the Orange Groper though.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited January 2019
    US Vice-President Mike Pence says the White House is looking into the legality of declaring a national emergency to circumvent Congress and begin construction of President Donald Trump's long-promised border wall.

    As Elaine (? - I think) once said, "I am speechless. I am without speech."
  • It's gonna be a busy mid-week. I'm sure Chuck and Nancy are prepared.

  • Yes, they've got a Go Fund Me campaign to send T all manner of LEGOs.* Then T can build allllll the walls he likes in the Oval office, his apartment, a hidey-hole in the basement, even on the White House lawn.

    Or, you know, Congress could authorize maybe $100,000 to buy LEGOs in bulk. It would be much cheaper than the proposed border wall, and it would keep T occupied.

    *No such campaign, AFAIK.
  • romanlion wrote: »
    It's gonna be a busy mid-week. I'm sure Chuck and Nancy are prepared.

    As I understand things, Ms Pelosi and Mr Schumer are experienced politicians who take their jobs very seriously. This is in stark contrast to Mr Trump, who never prepares for anything.
  • Climacus wrote: »
    US Vice-President Mike Pence says the White House is looking into the legality of declaring a national emergency to circumvent Congress and begin construction of President Donald Trump's long-promised border wall.

    As Elaine (? - I think) once said, "I am speechless. I am without speech."
    I think some see this as the way out of the budget impasse. Trump declares a "national emergency" to fund the wall. It is, therefore, no longer part of the budget. The budget can be passed to re-open the government. Everybody walks away claiming victory. Meanwhile, court actions are filed to block the declaration of a national emergency as an improper use of presidential power, which it is. Trump and his Republican bootlickers gets to say that they did not back down on the wall (those damn liberal judges stopped them!) while the budget gets passed and government functions continue. It really may be the best exit strategy for the Republicans.
  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    I think some see this as the way out of the budget impasse. Trump declares a "national emergency" to fund the wall. It is, therefore, no longer part of the budget. The budget can be passed to re-open the government. Everybody walks away claiming victory. Meanwhile, court actions are filed to block the declaration of a national emergency as an improper use of presidential power, which it is. Trump and his Republican bootlickers gets to say that they did not back down on the wall (those damn liberal judges stopped them!) while the budget gets passed and government functions continue. It really may be the best exit strategy for the Republicans.

    This is a popular strategy with certain forms of legislation popular with Republicans: pass a crazy law to fulfill some promise to your supporters and then count on the courts to strike it down. This becomes problematic on the occasions when the courts don't act the way politicians anticipate.
  • I continue to be scandalized that in the US Congress can get away with failing to pass a budget year after year and getting by on omnibus spending bills and continuing resolutions (ie, stopgap measures) with the occasional occurrence of a shutdown - the effects of with have been mitigated over time by legislation saying that certain parts of the government are funded no matter what without Congress needing to include them in any budget. I know that we don't have a Parliamentary system where failing to pass a budget brings a government down but this is absurd.

    There needs to be some kind of automatic repercussions for members of Congress for failing to comprehensively fund the government for each year or term. At the very least, congressional and presidential salaries should cease to be paid and congress members should be censured for failing to show up to the Capitol every work day to work on passing a budget. There should be a Constitutional Amendment that allows Congress to override a presidential veto of a budget by a simple majority in both houses after a certain period of time passes with no agreement being reached between the president and congress. It also should not be allowed for Mitch McConnell or any other leader in either house to prevent a vote on a budget bill when the government needs to be funded with the excuse of saying, "the president will not sign it so why bother?".
  • They get away with it because Ronald Reagan convinced millions of citizens that all that government of/by/for people stuff was bullshit and that government was the enemy of the people. He constantly told the "joke" about "The scariest words are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.'"

    What it really boils down to is that rich people i.e. donors don't need government services. They can send their kids to private schools and hire private security, for example. Everyone else - whether they have noticed yet or not - is in some way dependent on the bits of civilization that government provides and is getting screwed. The Coast Guard and TSA are working without pay, and they cover a lot more border than Donald's silly wall, FFS.
  • Someone mentioned that Mexico continues to refuse to pay for his Wall but is willing to pay for himself's psychiatric treatment.
  • I think T's "speech" is supposed to start in about 20 min. Here's a cheat sheet that contradicts what he will probably say:

    "Your fact-checking cheat sheet for Trump's immigration address" (SF Gate, which borrowed it from Wash. Post).
  • edited January 2019
    So the congress member who called trumpy mother-f--ker called him a racist. And rejected the attempted correction from the whomever from the White House. Noting trumpy said "Mexican rapists", defence of the neo-Nazis in the tiki torch parade in North Carolina, his Muslim banning, history of not renting to black people.

    It's awfully nice to see someone actually speak directly at this guy, in ways that actually address him the way he needs to be addressed. It'd be nice to see trumpy turn clinchpoop.
  • The person who called him a motherfucker is Rashida Tlaib. The person who went on 20/20 and called him a racist is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
  • I admit I was a little surprised that a Muslim woman would call him that term. Not condemning her. Just surprised.
  • Piglet wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    ... Truman immediately called it a national security threat, but it was overturned in SCOTUS ...
    But hasn't Trump got enough of the Supreme Court in his pocket that they'd support him? Except, presumably Mrs Bader-Ginsburg, whom God preserve.

    Aren't those murals in No Prophet's link creepy? <shudder>

    Don't think that SCOTUS is completely in Trump's pocket. Chief Justice Robers has no loyalty to him and has been the swing vote against Trump in a couple of cases.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    No, they aren't. SCOTUS -- Despite Roberts' temporary hold -- has refused to intervene in the Big Secret case: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/us/politics/supreme-court-subpoena-mueller.html?action=click&amp;module=Top Stories&amp;pgtype=Homepage
  • mousethief wrote: »
    So the congress member who called trumpy mother-f--ker called him a racist.
    The person who called him a motherfucker is Rashida Tlaib. The person who went on 20/20 and called him a racist is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

    Well, you know all those brown women look the same! :eyeroll:

    Also, the Ocasio-Cortez interview you mention was on 60 Minutes, not 20/20. I guess all those news shows with numbers in the title look the same, too. :sunglasses:
    Golden Key wrote: »
    I admit I was a little surprised that a Muslim woman would call him that term. Not condemning her. Just surprised.

    That seems right up there with the conservative pundit who claimed using profanity was against the values of Detroit (where Tlaib's district is located).
  • Glad to know there are 2 women calling your president things. Thanks for the info. I'd just heard the comments not who said them. That's grand. Where are the others? No men?
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth 8th Day Host, Mystery Worship Editor
    No comment yet, I see, on his so-called "address from the Oval Office." At least it proved that he can read from a teleprompter at about the level of a first grade student.

  • Crœsos wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    So the congress member who called trumpy mother-f--ker called him a racist.
    The person who called him a motherfucker is Rashida Tlaib. The person who went on 20/20 and called him a racist is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

    Well, you know all those brown women look the same! :eyeroll:

    Brown men too!

    I feel confident that with Chuck and Nancy out front and those two geniuses as back-benchers, the next couple of years will be entertainment gold!

  • No comment yet, I see, on his so-called "address from the Oval Office." At least it proved that he can read from a teleprompter at about the level of a first grade student.
    Not much to say. He just recycled the same lies and factual distortions that the White House has been spreading for weeks. The only really different bit is that Trump went from being "proud" to shut down the government to stating that it is all the Dems fault. And that isn't a surprise. We all assumed, when he said that he would "take the mantle" of shutting the government down, that he was lying. Again. because he lies when he speaks.
  • I doubt that anybody on this thread actually needs a link to establish the various lies that Trump has uttered with regard to his wall, but USA Today today has a good summary.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited January 2019
    The speech also managed the (likely unintentional) task of keeping yesterday's Russia revelations out of the headlines. First was the news that Natalia Veselnitskaya was being charged with obstruction of justice by the Southern District of New York. For those who can't immediately place the name, Veselnitskaya was the main Russian at the now-infamous Trump Tower meeting. The obstruction of justice charges stem from an unrelated case, but are mostly of interest because the prosecution has pretty clearly demonstrated that yes, Ms. Veselnitskaya is indeed an agent of the Russian government, not an independent attorney who sometimes does work for the Russian state, which was probably going to be one of Trump Jr.'s lines of defense if the matter ever sees the inside of a courtroom.

    The other bit of Russian news was the unintentional revelation from Paul Manafort's legal team that Manafort and his crony Rick Gates shared campaign polling data with alleged Russian spy Konstantin Kilimnik along with the instructions that Kilimnik should pass them along to known Russian oligarchs Serhiy Lyovochkin and Rinat Akhmetov. I say "unintentional" because the public version of the document was supposed to be redacted but was done in such a sloppy manner the underlying data was still accessible. In other words we now have Trump's [Individual-1]'s campaign manager admitting he was sharing campaign information, "colluding" if you will, with the Russian government. I personally can think of no reason Lyovochkin and Akhmetov would need polling data from an American presidential campaign that doesn't somehow tie back to the Russian effort to influence the 2016 presidential race through social media. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough.

    For what it's worth, Manafort's defense isn't that this data sharing didn't happen, it's that his denials of it don't count as lying because he simply forgot about it, not because he was deliberately trying to conceal it from the Mueller investigation.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    For what it's worth, Manafort's defense isn't that this data sharing didn't happen, it's that his denials of it don't count as lying because he simply forgot about it, not because he was deliberately trying to conceal it from the Mueller investigation.
    "It wasn't lying: We dealt with so many Russian agents that you can't reasonably expect me to remember every one of them" is an interesting defense.
  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    For what it's worth, Manafort's defense isn't that this data sharing didn't happen, it's that his denials of it don't count as lying because he simply forgot about it, not because he was deliberately trying to conceal it from the Mueller investigation.
    "It wasn't lying: We dealt with so many Russian agents that you can't reasonably expect me to remember every one of them" is an interesting defense.

    It's not a defense against a criminal charge, it's an argument that Manafort is cooperating in good faith (and in compliance of the terms of his plea agreement) with the Mueller probe. And yes, even in that context it's a piss-poor defense.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    In a version of "All those XYZs look alike," maybe Manafort et al. should adopt the Russian Novel defense: "All those Russian names, with their patronymics and multiple diminutives, sound alike."

    I admit to having trouble keeping track of who was who when immersed in Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Gogol, Pushkin, Turgenev, etc. back in high school.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    It seems to provide support for an accusation of collusion with the Russians by the Trump election team. I wonder what else Mueller has up his sleeve.
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