Are the royals on the rocks?

There was a thread on the ship in December discussing Prince Andrews recent "difficulties" and his decision to "step back from royal duties". This morning the entirety of the British press are in a state of hysteria over Harry and Megan essentially seeming to declare that they are quitting the firm.

Are the royal family falling to bits? Are they destined to end up like some sort of minor celebs, but otherwise irrelevant? Or are they irrelevant already?
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Comments

  • They have been irrelevant for quite some time (not HM the Q herself, of course).
    :naughty:
  • Marvin the MartianMarvin the Martian Admin Emeritus
    Are the royal family falling to bits? Are they destined to end up like some sort of minor celebs, but otherwise irrelevant? Or are they irrelevant already?

    No, no, and no.

    The monarchy has remained a British institution through Henry VIII's antics, the Civil War (notwithstanding a brief gap) and the abdication of Edward VIII. A couple of minor royals having PR disasters or moving to another country isn't going to have any effect beyond filling a few column inches in the papers.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Not an easy firm to leave, good luck to them.

    They’ll never escape the media. I give thanks for being born to an ordinary family.
  • Not yet, at least. As for the future, that will depend on Charles III. Can he be relied on to turn in a good performance? We shall see what we shall see.
  • Dear baby Jebuz I hope they are. IMO monarchy and a ruling class is one of the worst ideas humanity has ever had the misfortune of experimenting with.

    Hereditary monarchy has no place in 21st century human affairs. We have big problems that require enormous resources in terms of attention and intention. A monarchy is nothing but a parasite.

    AFF

  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited January 9
    The problem with not having a monarch is the alternative - a president. No, no a thousand times no!

    :astonished:
  • Are the royal family falling to bits? Are they destined to end up like some sort of minor celebs, but otherwise irrelevant? Or are they irrelevant already?

    No, no, and no.

    The monarchy has remained a British institution through Henry VIII's antics, the Civil War (notwithstanding a brief gap) and the abdication of Edward VIII. A couple of minor royals having PR disasters or moving to another country isn't going to have any effect beyond filling a few column inches in the papers.
    Hear, hear!

  • balaambalaam Shipmate
    Not yet, at least. As for the future, that will depend on Charles III. Can he be relied on to turn in a good performance? We shall see what we shall see.

    The monarchy has survived worse Kings than I see George VIII becoming, (That is the regnal name that Prince Charles has said he will be taking.)
  • TubbsTubbs Admin
    edited January 9
    Reading between the lines of the various recent photos, it looks like there are plans to reduce the number of “working royals” to whoever is on the throne, plus the heir once Charles becomes King. Which makes total sense. Why on earth should someone who’s double digits away from the succession be expected have “being royal” as their job and get supported by the general public.

    All Harry and Megan have done is acknowledge which way the wind is blowing and get in their bid for freedom first. They might not have done it in the best way possible in terms of family relationship management, but that’s entirely their business and problem. There's also practical stuff to sort out as they'll need to figure out how to support themselves. Hopefully Megan still has her Equity Card. :wink:

    What I find really bizarre is the announcement the royal family are “disappointed” in them … But having extremely dodgy taste in friends and no common sense seems to be fine. You just get shoved into a cupboard in the hope that people will forget all about it.
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    <snip>

    All Harry and Megan have done is acknowledge which way the wind is blowing and get in their bid for freedom first. They might not have done it in the best way possible in terms of family relationship management, but that’s entirely their business and problem. There's also practical stuff to sort out as they'll need to figure out how to support themselves. Hopefully Megan still has her Equity Card. :wink:
    <snip>

    Given the apparent levels of interest in them, I'm sure the book "Harry - my life as a royal - the inside story" could comfortably net him a hundred million or so. That might be a bit of a come down, but I'm sure they'd manage on that.
  • balaam wrote: »
    Not yet, at least. As for the future, that will depend on Charles III. Can he be relied on to turn in a good performance? We shall see what we shall see.

    The monarchy has survived worse Kings than I see George VIII becoming, (That is the regnal name that Prince Charles has said he will be taking.)

    Eh? What happened to George VII? Did I miss something?
    :confused:

  • He nipped in just after Edward IX but before William V. (Where is that Lady Jane Grey when you need her?)
  • Apparently, the Daily Mail has 17 pages on the "Rogue Royals". Why? I suppose people want to read it. Of course, they are carrying out that ancient coming of age ritual, leaving home, if a bit late. Isn't that amazing?
  • Which might well be how "Private Eye" might report it.
  • I resolutely refuse to click on it, but I see my news feed has a Daily Hatemail opinion piece entitled “Harry and Meghan – were it all went wrong”. I’m guessing their own beastly behaviour towards them doesn’t feature heavily.
  • I think the press reaction gives a clue as why they want out. Some of the press are also complaining that Harry used to be such fun, why is he so dreary now? Possibly because he feels trapped, like his mum.
  • BlahblahBlahblah Shipmate
    edited January 9
    Couldn't give less of a shit.

    Someone with half a brain has realised that they don't want to be part of such a corrupted institution. I hope that means it sinks.
  • Megxit!
  • No Henry the Ninth?
    :cry:
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Megxit!

    The trouble with grandad.
  • I resolutely refuse to click on it, but I see my news feed has a Daily Hatemail opinion piece entitled “Harry and Meghan – were it all went wrong”. I’m guessing their own beastly behaviour towards them doesn’t feature heavily.

    Yes, the right wing press are asking disingenuously, what could possibly be wrong with their lives? We pay them, so we own them.
  • It brings it all back to me, when the Beckhams went to LA.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Apparently, Harry and Megan like British Columbia. That is the neighboring province. Would not mind having them settle in our region.
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    What I find really bizarre is the announcement the royal family are “disappointed” in them … But having extremely dodgy taste in friends and no common sense seems to be fine. You just get shoved into a cupboard in the hope that people will forget all about it.

    I don't find that bizarre in the slightest. The Sussexes have unilaterally announced that they are jumping ship. They have deserted their post - abandoned their responsibility. It looks like an entirely premeditated choice to say "I have this obligation, but screw it - I'm not doing it any more."

    By contrast, having no common sense and a bad taste in friends are mere personality failings. Some people are stupid. If you are stupid, it is not your fault. We'll probably shuffle you into some corner where your stupidity can't cause too many problems, but we can't blame you for being stupid.

    HM The Queen has a very strong sense of responsibility and personal obligation. She has a lot of respect for the Princess Royal, for example, who works her arse off with relatively low-key engagements that are very much appreciated by those involved.

    Gadding about making a spectacle of yourself, and then abandoning ship at the first hints that you might be asked to knuckle down and do some work won't sit well with her. Doing all this unilaterally rather than discussing it with her will especially not sit well.
  • There's a big optics problem here. Did Elizabeth the queen say anything about Andrew leaving the royal business? But I guess his image past its best before date. Harry and Megan are still marketable.

    If they want to come to Canada, don't they have to apply for immigration like anyone else? Noting also that titles are meaningless here. I'd have more respect if they renounced their titles or abdicated or whatever.

    They want to be financially independent. What job skills other than being celebrities might they have? What education and training for actual work?
  • Abandoned their responsibility? Couple want to leave home, what a shocker!
  • Boogie wrote: »
    The problem with not having a monarch is the alternative - a president. No, no a thousand times no!

    :astonished:
    That's not the only alternative—see the Swiss Federal Council—nor is there only one model of presidency.

  • BlahblahBlahblah Shipmate
    There's a big optics problem here. Did Elizabeth the queen say anything about Andrew leaving the royal business? But I guess his image past its best before date. Harry and Megan are still marketable.

    If they want to come to Canada, don't they have to apply for immigration like anyone else? Noting also that titles are meaningless here. I'd have more respect if they renounced their titles or abdicated or whatever.

    They want to be financially independent. What job skills other than being celebrities might they have? What education and training for actual work?

    Might be wrong, and await correction, but I believe they are your fecking Royals as well.
  • There's a lot of anger, synthetic some of it probably, that they're putting themselves before their duty. Possib
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gadding about making a spectacle of yourself, and then abandoning ship at the first hints that you might be asked to knuckle down and do some work won't sit well with her.

    A couple of questions here. Isn't "[g]adding about making a spectacle of yourself" the actual "work" the royal family is supposed to do? Isn't the problem that Harry and Megan are saying that they want to "knuckle down and do some work" (insofar as what wealthy rentiers do is considered "work"), rather than do the not-work of simply being royalty?
    If they want to come to Canada, don't they have to apply for immigration like anyone else? Noting also that titles are meaningless here. I'd have more respect if they renounced their titles or abdicated or whatever.

    A while back someone suggested spinning off a cadet branch of the House of Windsor as the King (or Queen) of Canada, so that country could still have a monarch but would have a different one than the U.K. Not suggesting anything, just sayin'.
    They want to be financially independent. What job skills other than being celebrities might they have? What education and training for actual work?

    Depends on what you mean by "actual work". "Being a celebrity" is a marketable skill and they don't seem any less qualified for "actual work" than Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump, to pick an example not entirely at random.
  • BlahblahBlahblah Shipmate
    edited January 9
    There's a lot of anger, synthetic some of it probably, that they're putting themselves before their duty. Possib

    I don't understand why nobody has thought of farming out the children and grandchildren of that family before. Canada can have one couple, Australia another. Other countries who claim the Queen can take turns at housing them.
  • Sorry, possibly as a consequence, their child won't be utterly fucked up.
  • BlahblahBlahblah Shipmate
    In that vein, I once met the Queen's representative in one of the smaller countries of the Commonwealth. From what I heard, a Royal based there would likely do a lot more good (particularly in highlighting various issues which are rarely discussed elsewhere) than they would hanging about in Windsor.

  • There's a quiz somewhere on dysfunctional royal family members, and which one are you. Friend of famous paedophile, or emotionally illiterate dingbat? I am guessing that M and H are trying to opt out. (Guardian actually).
  • john holdingjohn holding Ecclesiantics Host, Mystery Worshipper Host
    Two separate points:
    -HRH Harry inherited pots of money from his mother's estate, and pots of money from the estate of the late Queen Mother, so no need for them to starve. If they decide to pay back the money the British taxpayer spent on renovations to Frogmore, that might make a small dent in his capital.
    - HM is head of state in Canada, and as such has whatever privileges a head of state has -- no need for a passport to enter, and so on. I believe her husband may be an honorary citizen. The rest of the family does not have any special position in Canada, though Charles and William (and, I suppose, George -- looking far into the future) will in due course take over from the present monarch. The Sussexes would have to apply for permanent residency, apply for citizenship (after passing the exam) and so on. just like any other would-be immigrant -- supposing they wanted to belong here.
  • BlahblahBlahblah Shipmate
    I think there are rules on paper and rules in reality. If they want to live in Canada, are you really suggesting that your government will force them to jump through the normal hoops?

    There is the thing called "privilege" whereby a tiny minority of people get to avoid the normal barriers which plebs have to deal with.
  • Tubbs wrote: »
    What I find really bizarre is the announcement the royal family are “disappointed” in them … But having extremely dodgy taste in friends and no common sense seems to be fine. You just get shoved into a cupboard in the hope that people will forget all about it.

    I don't find that bizarre in the slightest. The Sussexes have unilaterally announced that they are jumping ship. They have deserted their post - abandoned their responsibility. It looks like an entirely premeditated choice to say "I have this obligation, but screw it - I'm not doing it any more."

    By contrast, having no common sense and a bad taste in friends are mere personality failings. Some people are stupid. If you are stupid, it is not your fault. We'll probably shuffle you into some corner where your stupidity can't cause too many problems, but we can't blame you for being stupid.

    HM The Queen has a very strong sense of responsibility and personal obligation. She has a lot of respect for the Princess Royal, for example, who works her arse off with relatively low-key engagements that are very much appreciated by those involved.

    Gadding about making a spectacle of yourself, and then abandoning ship at the first hints that you might be asked to knuckle down and do some work won't sit well with her. Doing all this unilaterally rather than discussing it with her will especially not sit well.

    Given the amount of press coverage about the need for the Royal family to slim down after the Andrew debacle to "core members", the reaction is bizarre.

    The same people who've been telling everyone that anyone not in direct line to the throne is "surplus to requirements" and should go and get a job / a life are now losing their shite because someone who isn't even in the top 5 for the succession has agreed with them and done something about it.

    If they're not taking public money - which they have said they won't be - then I'm not convinced they're obliged to perform. Although they are going to have figure out how to be royal but not royal without being tacky. "Dignity, dignity, always dignity ..."
  • Are the royal family falling to bits? Are they destined to end up like some sort of minor celebs, but otherwise irrelevant? Or are they irrelevant already?
    No. One member of The Firm has decided to go "off piste" and have a sulk, partly justified by the behaviour of our gutter press, and partly because he, and his new wife, seem to want their cake and eat it. In this he is behaving just like his mother who also wanted the press coverage when it suited her (whether to publicise a cause or to have a swipe at her estranged husband) and then railed against the gentlemen of the fourth estate when she deemed they were intruding on her privacy.

    No. There will always be members of The Firm who are major "celebs": the monarch, the heir apparent (spouse and young children) and their heir. Apart from those destined to put the bottom in King Edward's Chair they are all minor celebs, some of whom get it (Princess Anne, Countess of Wessex, Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra,the Gloucesters) and others who don't (the late Princess Margaret, Princes Andrew & Edward, Prince & Princess Michael of Kent).

    No. The monarch and their heir (and down the line of first-born from them) will always be "relevant" - the rest can be more or less dispensed with.

    As for the latest soap installment from the Sussexes, I seem to recall another American divorcee who didn't quite "get" the deal with being in a relationship with a member of the British royal family ... :naughty:
  • Harry is a helicopter pilot. No shortage for work for him here if worse comes to worst.

    AFF
  • BlahblahBlahblah Shipmate
    Anyway, given that the Canadian government apparently recognises both of them as part of the "Canadian Royal Family", presumably they are therefore considered Canadian.

    https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/royal-family/members-royal-family.html
  • Blahblah wrote: »
    I think there are rules on paper and rules in reality. If they want to live in Canada, are you really suggesting that your government will force them to jump through the normal hoops?

    There is the thing called "privilege" whereby a tiny minority of people get to avoid the normal barriers which plebs have to deal with.
    As far as I understand from this coming up, they probably get hustled through and skip line-ups, but they require passports and go through the usual immigration processes which anyone has to. Diplomats get the special-ist treatment.
  • Surely, they should get into tea-towels. They could produce a nice range, some with yer man's fizzog, and some yer woman, plus optional sprog. Then there is the obvious stuff, London bobby, Big Ben, Windsor, royal monograms, Canadian obvious symbol. Millions await them.
  • Harry is a helicopter pilot. No shortage for work for him here if worse comes to worst.

    AFF

    No, it's William who is the helicopter pilot, not Harry.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Harry is a helicopter pilot. No shortage for work for him here if worse comes to worst.

    AFF

    No, it's William who is the helicopter pilot, not Harry.

    Actually it's both.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited January 9
    I’m not a royalist, and I don’t think this decision should have being given the prominence it has been. That said:

    The man trained as a soldier and fought on the frontline. We forced the boy to walk behind his mother’s coffin through the capital in front of crowds of hundreds of thousands - I don’t think he owes us the rest of his life.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Blahblah wrote: »
    Might be wrong, and await correction, but I believe they are your fecking Royals as well.

    And our's, alas. Can't do any harm to the republican vote at the next referendum.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    Harry is rather thick and easily manipulated.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    The problem with not having a monarch is the alternative - a president. No, no a thousand times no!

    :astonished:
    That's not the only alternative—see the Swiss Federal Council—nor is there only one model of presidency.

    Totally agree, and we'd have had a German type by now save that someone decided to push for a directly elected position and stuffed up the vote.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Depends on what you mean by "actual work". "Being a celebrity" is a marketable skill and they don't seem any less qualified for "actual work" than Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump, to pick an example not entirely at random.

    Indeed, the thing that strikes me about it is that it's further evidence that the US influence on the UK. Harry and Meghan are the new face of non-sovereign royals, and possibly the new cultural face of the UK post-Brexit.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Apparently, Harry and Megan like British Columbia. That is the neighboring province. Would not mind having them settle in our region.

    BTW, the prince is qualified to fly the Apache, Lynx, or Gazelle helicopters. While he was a ground pounder on his first deployment to Afghanistan, his second deployment to Afghanistan saw him as a pilot---or, as we would say "a whirlybird."
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