Worship in other tongues

Urganda has posted an MW report of a glorious Evensong at Wells Cathedral: a beautiful act of worship in a beautiful place. However it has left me with a question - which may well be a Dead Horse but I can't recall it being discussed recently - about whether one should hold services in a language which isn't the "common tongue" and is thus unintelligible to the majority of people.

Granted, this was a "once off" annual tradition; and we were told that there was a printed introduction in English. Nevertheless one might want to ask, while acknowledging that worshippers' hearts were lifted up, how meaningful such a service would have been to people who were not familiar with Evensong? Indeed, was there any danger of this service being more "vaguely spiritual" a or aesthetic than expressely Christian? And might one even ask if Paul's injunction in 1 Corinthians 14 about "singing with the mind" is relevant here?
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Comments

  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    Link to aid reflection and perspicacious discourse. It's alright, don't thank me :blush:
  • I must admit that, at first, I thought @Baptist Trainfan was referring to the archaic English of the 1662 Prayer Book, until I read the report carefully, and found that the service was Vespers, not Evensong as such (bearing in mind that Cranmer combined Vespers and Compline to form the Anglican service we have today).

    Presumably, this was the Roman Catholic service, and I suppose it is sung in Latin every day at Downside Abbey, but in general I should say that worship ought indeed to be conducted in the language of the majority of the people present.
  • Do we know whether people who were not aware of the format of Anglican Evensong, nor of the verses from the Psalms, or who indeed were not familiar with the teachings and main ideas of Christianity would understand much even if the singing were in English ?

    In order to understand, one has to understand a lot more than the individual words.
  • Presumably, this was the Roman Catholic service, and I suppose it is sung in Latin every day at Downside Abbey, but in general I should say that worship ought indeed to be conducted in the language of the majority of the people present.

    Kyrie eleison :wink:

    I'd venture to suggest that people who weren't familiar with Evensong (or even Vespers) might be unlikely to pop in to the cathedral on a Friday night to hear it. I agree with you that in the general case worship should be conducted in the vernacular. I also like chanting in Latin, and if you give me a choice between chants in Latin or a praise band in English, I'll take the Latin every time.

    But I know what the Latin means, which for me is the difference between singing in Latin and Swahili. (And no, I wouldn't be able to follow a sermon preached in Latin.)

    To a point, I could actually prefer praying in Latin - because I'm not fluent in Latin, it makes me think about the meaning of what I'm saying, rather than just chuntering through on autopilot. Sometimes when we recite the creed, I'm adding the Latin in my head to make me think about what we're saying.

  • The service sung by the Schola Cantorum of Downside was to mark the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, and its likely that either the Cathedral Choir or the Cathedral School will have gone to Downside to sing Evensong.

    Exchanges of this kind were pioneered by St Paul's and Westminster cathedrals in 1990 (I think) and they took their inspiration from the occasion when the monks of Ampleforth were invited to sing Vespers at Westminster Abbey on the day of Basil Hume's enthronement in 1976 - and I was there!

    I don't think it matters a jot that some/many of those present won't have understood every word (although I'd be surprised if there wasn't an Order of Service with translations), the attitude of people will have been reverent and that can be enough.
  • I think that people going to a cathedral evensong who aren't used to it are going for the atmosphere, as done well it can be an uplifting service without too much requirement to join in. It probably isn't the best introduction to Christianity, especially in the timeless/antiquated (delete as appropriate) words of the BCP. I think the service was meant as expressly Christian, and arguably it's good to broaden liturgical horizons and remember what our common heritage is.

    When I was out in Venice as a student back in the mid 2000s, we had BCP communion every Sunday as that was what the congregation generally grew up on, whichever side of the Pond they hailed from. It was a bit of an education in a variety of ways, having grown up on ASB/CW eucharists, and having started on the steady slope to Anglo-Catholicism by then, but obviously appealed to their demographic.

    I am a rarity in that I went to a state school and did A-Level Latin. Unfortunately my alma mater has had to drop it after GCSE now. I can therefore actually understand it, though I'm better at reading it than listening to it. The fact that so few people actually study it properly these days in the UK means that without translation it would be bordering on unintelligible to anyone who doesn't have any great knowledge of a romance language or two.

    Of course services in a foreign language are much easier to follow at some level if you know the underlying form: I went to an Italian Mass a couple of times (Sitting at the back is the best way to see some of the dome mosaics at St Marks, and I wasn't going to miss the patronal High Mass at La Salute!)
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    ... if you give me a choice between chants in Latin or a praise band in English, I'll take the Latin every time.
    That's comparing apples and cricket balls. The relevant choice would be between either chants in Latin or chants in English, or more difficult to arrange, a praise band in Latin or a praise band in English.
    But I know what the Latin means, which for me is the difference between singing in Latin and Swahili. (And no, I wouldn't be able to follow a sermon preached in Latin.)
    I did several years of compulsory Latin many years ago, but, like most people who had that inflicted on them, never achieved conversational fluency in it. So given the choice between chant in Latin or in English, I'd prefer English every time.
    To a point, I could actually prefer praying in Latin - because I'm not fluent in Latin, it makes me think about the meaning of what I'm saying, rather than just chuntering through on autopilot. Sometimes when we recite the creed, I'm adding the Latin in my head to make me think about what we're saying.
    Putting this as tactfully as I can, I suspect your position is sufficiently unusual to count as a minority taste that churches probably shouldn't feel that obliged to provide for.

    My Latin is not good enough to be able to say that praying in it would be, for me, even a valid or beneficial spiritual practice. I'm not sure there's anyone else in the churches I regularly have any involvement with whose Latin is even up to my minimal memories of it.

  • Enoch wrote: »
    Putting this as tactfully as I can, I suspect your position is sufficiently unusual to count as a minority taste that churches probably shouldn't feel that obliged to provide for.

    :grin: @Enoch, I rather suspect that many of my tastes and interests fall into the category of "sufficiently unusual that you're not worth bothering with."

    A praise band in Latin would be sufficiently amusing that I'd have to try it out at least once, but I don't think the typical praise band fare would be improved by a Latin translation.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    edited January 26
    We have all been to church to "let the whole thing wash over us": when we intentionally pay almost no attention to the words themselves, let alone the shades of meaning or the theology expressed or implied. Latin is a lovely language to be washed over by because it's sort of familiar even when we only understand its sounds and rhythms and a few words and phrases here and there
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    A praise band in Latin would be sufficiently amusing that I'd have to try it out at least once, but I don't think the typical praise band fare would be improved by a Latin translation.

    Maybe not improved, but it would be very difficult to make it worse.
  • Some people in the Classics department at my local university sometimes arrange for an evening service (Protestant) in Latin in the side chapel of the university church. The Sunday compline service is usually done by rotating choirs and sometimes in non-English languages.
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited January 26
    The OP mentions 1 Corinthians 14. I think the key takeaway from that passage is that corporate worship should be intelligible.

    That might not extend to translating literally every word said or sung into the usual language in the country in question, but I think it implies at least explaining what is being said or sung, much as a libretto does for opera.

    Christianity may be transcendent, but it is not esoteric.
  • That was really the root of my question.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Some people in the Classics department at my local university sometimes arrange for an evening service (Protestant) in Latin in the side chapel of the university church. The Sunday compline service is usually done by rotating choirs and sometimes in non-English languages.
    Just as Welsh versions have always been produced, there was also a Latin version of Queen Elizabeth I's Book of Common Prayer for use in Universities where people could understand it, but not anywhere else. Is that what they use?
  • I would argue that this was a totally unsuitable service for scrutiny by a Mystery Worshipper, at least in the spirit set out in the OP. This was not their characteristic, "home" service, this was a visit by a neighbour, done in order to incorporate into the life of the cathedral something that was known to be beyond its usual boundaries.

    This is why I don't see the point of the OP. If it was the cathedral's standard approach, I would agree that ther was a question to answer. Nor was this done for the edification of the one-off visitor. This was done as a response of the cathedral to the occasion of the Week of Prayer for Christian Union. This, to me, is hospitality in action: making real space in the cathedral's life for something that is from outside. There is no attempt to seal it off in a "this is special" bubble, and I'm sure that the congregation was given the tools to understand what was happening.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Well in general there is ample evidence that services should be conducted in a language people understand and that there is no basis for thinking that other languages manage to be more spiritual or holy.

    But then it's explicitly acknowledged that this is a highly unusual service. At which point the whole basis for the OP kind of collapses.
  • I would suggest that as this was probably advertised as 'Vespers in Latin' that it would appeal to quite a specific audience. There being three over lapping constituents:
    • Those who know Latin and so can follow a service in that language
    • Liturgical Geeks who will know the format of Vespers and so be able to follow along with little explanation
    • Church Music enthusiasts who are their to listen too something that is not commonly available

    It is quite likely that these people are being drawn in partly because it is in LATIN. In which case there is little point in turning it into English.
  • I do take on board the comments above: I do realise (and actually said, I think), that this was a one-off annual event, Nevertheless, I think there is still a general point to discuss outside the context of this service.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited January 26
    I do take on board the comments above: I do realise (and actually said, I think), that this was a one-off annual event, Nevertheless, I think there is still a general point to discuss outside the context of this service.

    Well in general things should be understandable.

    The centuries that the RC church spent insisting that Latin was God's own language are nothing more than a prime case of people holding onto a 'tradition' without understanding the rationale for its original existence.
  • Strangely enough, when I was fortunate enough to be in Edinburgh for the Gaelic Eucharist at the Cathedral a few years ago, the choir sang the psalms and other parts of the service in Latin. I don't know whether this was down to a lack of mass settings in Gaelic or a lack of familiarity with Gaelic on the part of the choir.
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    I should probably add that singing vocal music in a language other than the one for which it was composed is a whole other issue. That's not a theological problem, it's a musical one.

    If you want a particular piece of music that was composed in Latin then I would almost always be in favour of performing it in Latin. But then, the question should be why you're choosing to perform that particular piece of music in the context of a church service.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    The congregation had a service sheet which presumably had a translation - the report isn't clear.
    Having sung Vespers in Latin in my younger days - I am THAT old - I would think that sitting through five Latin psalms might stretch the concentration a bit. But that's a Vespers thing.
    I have been to Mass in Latin, French, German, Italian, Swahili, Provencal and Welsh. But that is a different ball game because the structure helps you along so you can follow the action and plug in.
    I remember going to Mass in Alsace in a beautiful modern chapel that overlooked the valley below. I was there with wife and kids and there was a bunch of German Boy Scouts and a couple of locals who probably spoke more Alasatian than French. The elderly priest came and chatted before Mass and then announced that he would celebrate in Latin as there was a mixture of languages in the congregation. The result was that he and I were the only people who knew the responses etc.
    Didn't the BCP state that worship should be "Understanded of the people?" or somesuch, and didn't some Oxbridge colleges worship in Latin at times because you needed Latin to enrol?
    Any road, as they say, I don't have any issue at all as long as folks have a translation in front of them. Most people can read these days.
  • A praise band in Latin would be sufficiently amusing that I'd have to try it out at least once, but I don't think the typical praise band fare would be improved by a Latin translation.

    Actually I think most praise band fare would be vastly improved by being in a language that few would understand, thus being spared from the banality of the sentiments expressed and the terrible doggerel used so to do.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    @TheOrganist - Is that the same principle as if I am going to have to listen to terrible doggerel I would much prefer it to be Sternhold and Hopkins! ;)
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 26
    Luceat, Jesus, luceat, anyone? ('Shine, Jesus, shine').

    Cathedral choirs (and others) often sing classical settings of the Mass in Latin, though most cathedrals provide the English translation in the service booklet, at least IME.

    The 1662 BCP is 'legally' available in Latin (for use in the Universities) and in French (for use in the Channel Islands, AIUI). Our cathedral does an annual Evensong for the French Hospital (a Huguenot foundation), partly in French, and partly in English - but with translations provided. IIRC, one or two of the hymns were also in French.
  • I agree that worship should be in a language 'understanded of the people' and that corporate worship should be, as Eutychus indicates, intelligible. That does not necessarily mean that every word should be understood. Liturgical worship sometimes uses its own language and those who have sufficient knowledge can understand what is going on. Those who do not have that background knowledge will not fully understand, even if the liturgical language used is 'understanded of the people'.

    We know that, at the time of the English Reformation there were some uprisings which protested against the use of English in the liturgy and we also know that at the more modern time of the change of language in the Catholic liturgy there were a number of people who protested against this . In time I think that most Catholic nowadays will take it as normal that the liturgy is celebrated in their own language. Fewer and ever fewer will remember the days of the regular Latin Mass. At that time those who were there regularly would have known what was going on, even if they did not understand every word.

    But as our priest recently said 'the Church did not begin in the 1960s'. We have a long past and it is good sometimes to celebrate that past. Not very religious service has to be an evangelistic service which seeks to persuade people of the core teaching of Jesus Christ.
    There can be times when we simply wish to lift up our hearts and minds to God and to sing his praises. such might have been that occasion of Latin Vespers.

    On a personal level along with most Catholics of my age I would have regularly sung the following words in Latin (at one of the few times when lay people would participate verbally in the Latin liturgy)
    O salutaris Hostia,quae coeli pandis ostium
    Bella premunt hostilia,da robur fer auxilium.

    Although I understand, better than most ,ecclesiastical Latin ,it is only relatively recently that I have understood exactly the meanings of the words - partly because the last line was divided in singing into 'da robur fer' and 'auxilium'. Nevertheless I knew and still know exactly in what context the words were used and exactly what they signified, even if I did not understand each word.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Strangely enough, when I was fortunate enough to be in Edinburgh for the Gaelic Eucharist at the Cathedral a few years ago, the choir sang the psalms and other parts of the service in Latin. I don't know whether this was down to a lack of mass settings in Gaelic or a lack of familiarity with Gaelic on the part of the choir.
    Since there a long standing and well known Gaelic psalm singing tradition, that can only be described as weird.

    @Arethosemyfeet, whose cathedral was that? Wikipedia lists at least three?

    Was that because the Gaelic psalm tradition belongs to a different denomination from that particular Cathedral, who wouldn't dream of doing anything that 'them up the road' might do, or was it because the choir doesn't know how to sing them?
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    edited January 26
    Strange that no-one has mentioned Taizé yet. A world-famed religious community, with Protestant roots but completely ecumenical and international. The worship there is in the language of everyone and no-one. But I don't think that you would go there, hear a chant being sung in an unfamiliar language, and think 'I know this bit is for the German-speakers (or whatever)... I'll start praying when an English text pops up.' The whole thing is prayer, the whole thing is worship: we understand the intention and the context and that is enough.

    I know the Downside/Wells context was different, but for the monastic community there is nothing alien in worshipping in Latin and people were simply invited to pray and worship along with them.

    I understand the Reformation principle that worship should be in the common tongue, and no-one now contradicts that. But if you take it to an extreme it becomes a matter of the head ruling the heart, and although that might be religion for some people it's not how it always has been, or should be.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    Strangely enough, when I was fortunate enough to be in Edinburgh for the Gaelic Eucharist at the Cathedral a few years ago, the choir sang the psalms and other parts of the service in Latin. I don't know whether this was down to a lack of mass settings in Gaelic or a lack of familiarity with Gaelic on the part of the choir.
    Since there a long standing and well known Gaelic psalm singing tradition, that can only be described as weird.

    @Arethosemyfeet, whose cathedral was that? Wikipedia lists at least three?

    Was that because the Gaelic psalm tradition belongs to a different denomination from that particular Cathedral, who wouldn't dream of doing anything that 'them up the road' might do, or was it because the choir doesn't know how to sing them?

    It was the SEC Cathedral. As I understand it the Gaelic psalm tradition was common to both the Presbyterians and Episcopalians (which shouldn't be surprising given Episcopalianism hung around in the Highlands more than the Lowlands after 1689) but the choir at St Mary's Cathedral in Edinburgh is in the English mould, with that repertoire. I think it would be unlikely that the SEC at a Gaelic Eucharist would refuse to use any form of Gaelic Psalmody, so my bet is on it being beyond the choir in the available rehearsal time. My limited experience suggests that it is harder as an English speaker to sing in Gaelic than it is in Latin.
  • Luceat, Jesus, luceat, anyone? ('Shine, Jesus, shine').

    Cathedral choirs (and others) often sing classical settings of the Mass in Latin, though most cathedrals provide the English translation in the service booklet, at least IME.

    The 1662 BCP is 'legally' available in Latin (for use in the Universities) and in French (for use in the Channel Islands, AIUI). Our cathedral does an annual Evensong for the French Hospital (a Huguenot foundation), partly in French, and partly in English - but with translations provided. IIRC, one or two of the hymns were also in French.

    The Other Cathedral in your neck of the woods of course has a chapel exclusively reserved for a Huguenot congregation who still meet weekly. My uncle has played for them and says that all the chat before and after is in English, as most of the congregation are British, but as soon as it starts it's in French.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    angloid wrote: »
    Strange that no-one has mentioned Taizé yet.

    That was my immediate thought actually.
    Most people can pick up a few words in other languages anyway and often they do verse after verse in a different language with a different "cantor" so you get your "turn".

    And I do recall Frere Roger saying that they used Latin as most of the "youth" actually quite liked the sound and cadence of it and appreciated its antiquity and universality. Also it was vaguely familiar while not sparking "old school trauma"

  • Thanks to @angloid for mentioning Taize (which I admit I had forgot).

    It is indeed true, I think, that in such a setting, the actual language used becomes less important than the praying, though IIRC most of the chants are available in the language of one's choice (well, sort of), online, and in the books published by Taize.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    At Taize the texts have translations printed underneath, so the challenge is of pronunciation not understanding.
    NB when I visited the entire gathering of several thousand singing in parts was accompanied by a single acoustic guitar who kept everyone in time and in tune. A very skilful player. The simplicity and starkness was deeply moving.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Luceat, Jesus, luceat, anyone? ('Shine, Jesus, shine').

    I've always parsed that as an imperative - Luce(? - Latin rusty)
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Is that a 2nd person imperative, a command to Jesus, or a third person one, 'Let Jesus shine'? Either way, it doesn't fit the original tune, unless, in the case of Luce, you were to pronounce it 'loose'!

    'Quod amicum Jesu habemus' would be another one that doesn't fit the original tune. On the other hand, nor does 'Laude anima mea Regem cœli'.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited January 27
    My grammar is a bit rusty: but might "Shine" in fact be subjunctive rather than imperative, an ellipsis of "(May you) shine, Jesus" or "(That you might) shine"?
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 27
    I haven't a clue. I obtained the info from Mr Go Ogle's translation service... :grimace:

    But I think all three of you should have Prizes, anyway. I don't even know what the silly ditty means in English.
  • Neither does anyone else - maybe write to Mr Kendrick ask him?
  • It is a third person singular impersonal verb in the subjunctive mood.
  • What, "kendrick" ?
  • Forthview wrote: »
    It is a third person singular impersonal verb in the subjunctive mood.
    Surely not third person: it's quite clearly an invocation to Jesus for him to "shine", as is the next one to the Spirit to "blaze".

  • ECraigRECraigR Shipmate
    Forthview wrote: »
    It is a third person singular impersonal verb in the subjunctive mood.
    Surely not third person: it's quite clearly an invocation to Jesus for him to "shine", as is the next one to the Spirit to "blaze".

    It may read that way, but grammatically it’s a third person singular subjunctive in the present active. It can probably be translated as a jussive subjunctive, so “let Jesus shine.”

    Also, as may be clear, I’m a big fan of Latin and think that religions having a holy language is good. I’ve always been a fan of Christians knowing Latin and Ancient Greek, and worshipping in Latin, though I’m a bit in the minority.

  • ECraigR wrote: »
    Forthview wrote: »
    It is a third person singular impersonal verb in the subjunctive mood.
    Surely not third person: it's quite clearly an invocation to Jesus for him to "shine", as is the next one to the Spirit to "blaze".

    It may read that way, but grammatically it’s a third person singular subjunctive in the present active. It can probably be translated as a jussive subjunctive, so “let Jesus shine.”

    Also, as may be clear, I’m a big fan of Latin and think that religions having a holy language is good. I’ve always been a fan of Christians knowing Latin and Ancient Greek, and worshipping in Latin, though I’m a bit in the minority.

    Thank you @ECraigR for giving me something to say to our hymn-chooser on Sunday, on which inauspicious day the Shiny Song is scheduled to be bellowed...

    ...it’s...a jussive subjunctive, so “let Jesus shine.”

    I see what you mean, and I agree - but it's not often that one can throw 'jussive subjunctive' into the conversation!
    :grin:

    Someone further up this thread suggested that the language of worship should generally be intelligible, even if some of the words, phrases, and ideas, may not necessarily be understood at first.

    An important point, IMHO.



  • ECraigR wrote: »
    Forthview wrote: »
    It is a third person singular impersonal verb in the subjunctive mood.
    Surely not third person: it's quite clearly an invocation to Jesus for him to "shine", as is the next one to the Spirit to "blaze".

    It may read that way, but grammatically it’s a third person singular subjunctive in the present active. It can probably be translated as a jussive subjunctive, so “let Jesus shine.”
    Wow!

  • Someone further up this thread suggested that the language of worship should generally be intelligible, even if some of the words, phrases, and ideas, may not necessarily be understood at first.
    Yes; and we are good at tossing around words (in English) which may convey profound truths to "those in the know", but may not only be unintelligible but even convey wrong meanings to the uninitiated.

    I once preached a sermon which was completely undergirded by the word "proleptic" - but I never actually said it - although my wife guessed! After all, I'm trying to educate, inspire and challenge my listeners, not training them to pass a theology exam (which isn't to say that I don't want them to be theologically literate!)

  • If it is not translated impersonally then it means 'let Jesus shine' just like
    'luceat lux vestra coram hominibus,ut videant opera vestra bona'
    let your light shine before men,that they may see your good works,
    'videant' is also subjunctive.
    (English often uses helping verbs to 'help' form the subjunctive)
  • Someone further up this thread suggested that the language of worship should generally be intelligible, even if some of the words, phrases, and ideas, may not necessarily be understood at first.
    Yes; and we are good at tossing around words (in English) which may convey profound truths to "those in the know", but may not only be unintelligible but even convey wrong meanings to the uninitiated.

    I once preached a sermon which was completely undergirded by the word "proleptic" - but I never actually said it - although my wife guessed! After all, I'm trying to educate, inspire and challenge my listeners, not training them to pass a theology exam (which isn't to say that I don't want them to be theologically literate!)

    O heck - I had to look up 'proleptic' - ignoramus that I am!

    But it's also necessary, these days, to remember that not all of our listeners even have English as their first language. This is perhaps especially true of churches in urban areas, and may explain (to a degree) why Our Place seems to attract people from other countries who at least are familiar with the general form of the Eucharist/Mass/Holy Communion.

    They may not understand everything that is said (especially if it's me that's preaching), but at least they'll have some idea of what's going on. I think this point has also been made before on this thread.

  • Yes; and this may pose a certain difficulty for Nonconformists as we do not use set liturgies but start of with a "blank sheet of paper" each week.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 27
    Well, things like The Lord's Prayer may well be familiar to those from other backgrounds, so there's a start! Some 'universal' hymns/ choruses/worship songs (pace Taize) might help, too.

    But ISWYM. How does one go about helping a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual Assembly Of Faith to understand as much as possible of a 'normal' Sunday service (if there is such a thing)?

    Incidentally, last Sunday we had people at Mass from the UK, Ireland, Nigeria, Barbados, the Philippines, India (Kerala, same as my Auntie), and Trinidad. A previous regular contingent of Poles has gone back to Poland, owing to Brexit :grimace:, but we do sometimes get Latvians, and Russians (!). A recent baptism family was Italian/Chinese (Buddhist), and a couple of Hungarians are still on our regular home communion list, though one of them can't physically get to church any more.

    This is nothing exceptional, I think - it simply reflects the current demographics of our parish.
  • ISWYM. How does one go about helping a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-lingual Assembly Of Faith to understand as much as possible of a 'normal' Sunday service (if there is such a thing)?
    Especially in the "Reformed" tradition which values "intelligent" worship which engages the mind as much as the spirit.

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