Trumpton - the rant thread

1121315171839

Comments

  • Will they start shooting them? Have they done it already? Here's the bad man joking about it after someone says "shoot them" at at rally a month ago. https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1126293504949407744/video/1

    And here's a report about someone from a "militia" who detained 200 people and advocated shooting them. https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1125529584546603009
    Brown Shirts anyone?

    You guys are in so much trouble.


  • They are not in that much trouble unless Trump is defeated and tries to stay, or tries to extend his time after the expiration of his second term. People used to shout that sort of shit out at the footy, and they still would be if the AFL didn't frog-march them out of the ground and ban them from attending games for life.

    The militias are more of a worry. They definitely need to be disarmed. I saw one show on militia's at the border where the leader of one pack was a recovering ice-addict. Tell me that bloke isn't managing a mental health problem with an assault rifle in his hands.
  • jbohn wrote: »
    What I don’t get is that half of voters voted democrat. Why are they not on the streets about this like the protestors in Hong Kong ? Why are people not going ballistic about this ? Is this not the situation where you call a general strike, where you camp on the streets (unless you are a safety critical person like a paramedic etc) - if not now then when ?

    Some of it is apathy. And exhaustion. We're tired from 2+ years of this shitshow.

    Some of it is fear of economic loss. When a large number of American families are living paycheck to paycheck, a general strike means going hungry, losing homes, etc. It's not that no one cares, but that they can't sacrifice their families to do it.

    Some of it, I suspect, is fear of violence. We know for a fact the MAGA-ts and alt-wrong are heavily armed, and at least a subset isn't opposed to or afraid of committing violence to support their Dear Leader. Me, I've got a toddler at home - I'm not looking to get into situations where getting killed is a possible outcome, thanks.

    I've been thinking about this a lot. It's really easy to argue that we all must do something but I read a detailed account of Charlottesville and it's genuinely very scary. The peaceful marchers of the counter-demonstration faced threats of violence all day long before the actual murder/attempted murders took place.

    It's no small thing to put yourself in the line here. This is why Oscar Romero is such a hero of mine. Different place, different time, same courage.

    I am also moved to think about what will make a difference? I think people who are campaigning online and in person; who are pushing for impeachment and are looking to the 2020 elections are on the side of the angels here. And this may well be the pathway to change things.

    A good friend of mine lives in Texas and teaches French and Spanish. She is a (former) lifelong Republican who is volunteering to act as a translator for refugees. That is active resistance.

    Looking at this side of the Atlantic, our record on imprisoning asylum seekers is poor as well. Including putting children in detention centres. We have marginalised the disabled with cuts followed by more cuts. The list goes on. Why is there not more protest about this in the UK? I think the answer lies in the fact that it is mostly unseen.


    AFZ
  • The thing about Hong Kong, general strikes etc. is that you need to mobilise a lot of people at once to have safety in numbers.

    The concern about waiting for the election, is that it may be a deal too late with the speed things are moving - whether it is unrigged, happens at all, or not.
  • jbohnjbohn Shipmate
    The thing about Hong Kong, general strikes etc. is that you need to mobilise a lot of people at once to have safety in numbers.

    Which works, until it doesn't. I mean no offense, but tell that to the parents of that poor young lady in Charlottesville. She was in a massive group of people. She's still dead.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Also it depends on what methods of crowd control the opposition use.
  • The thing about Hong Kong, general strikes etc. is that you need to mobilise a lot of people at once to have safety in numbers.

    and you generally don't mobilise a lot of people in a hurry unless you have a history of and a system for doing just that -- this is why a lot of governments organise counter protests -- because otherwise you tend to lose momentum and message.
  • jbohn wrote: »
    The thing about Hong Kong, general strikes etc. is that you need to mobilise a lot of people at once to have safety in numbers.

    Which works, until it doesn't. I mean no offense, but tell that to the parents of that poor young lady in Charlottesville. She was in a massive group of people. She's still dead.

    Yes, but there are people dying in the concentration camps now too - there will always be risk in trying to oppose that. The question is, how bad does it have to get before you think it’s worth the risk ?

    Versus, if the state gets more authoritarian over time, the longer you wait - potentially - the higher the risk.
  • The thing I get about the TRG**, those people who vote for the people from that disgusting political party, is that the only issue which matters to them is fetuses and ensuring every fetus gets born. It's all deeply felt compassion. They really, really care. :vomit:


    ** TRG - trumpist Republican Guard
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    The thing I get about the TRG**, those people who vote for the people from that disgusting political party, is that the only issue which matters to them is fetuses and ensuring every fetus gets born. It's all deeply felt compassion. They really, really care. :vomit:


    ** TRG - trumpist Republican Guard

    Not every fetus. For some of them there's a distinction that can be summarized in fourteen words.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I don't know - if a black lady had an abortion (even for
    good and valid reasons), it wouldn't surprise me if they saw that as an excuse to throw the book at her.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    They might not have to. In the US, black women die of pregnancy and childbirth-related complications at more than 3 times the rate at which white women do.
  • What's the definition of a crime against humanity? Shall the USA be indicted for one: leadership and the militarized bullies are following the orders?
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/06/lawyers-migrant-children-held-bad-conditions-texas-border-190620215146409.html
    three girls, ages 10 to 15, said they had been taking turns watching over a sick two-year-old boy because there was no one else to look after him....the boy, he was not wearing a diaper and had wet his pants, and his shirt was smeared in mucus. They said at least 15 children at the facility had the flu, and some were kept in medical quarantine....they were fed uncooked frozen food or rice and had gone weeks without bathing or a clean change of clothes

    What violence this evil terrible man hath wrought. Stop him you Americans! Are you all overcome with shit?

  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    jbohn wrote: »
    The thing about Hong Kong, general strikes etc. is that you need to mobilise a lot of people at once to have safety in numbers.

    Which works, until it doesn't. I mean no offense, but tell that to the parents of that poor young lady in Charlottesville. She was in a massive group of people. She's still dead.

    Yes, but there are people dying in the concentration camps now too - there will always be risk in trying to oppose that. The question is, how bad does it have to get before you think it’s worth the risk ?

    Versus, if the state gets more authoritarian over time, the longer you wait - potentially - the higher the risk.

    Time is a critical factor in risk assessment. In a democracy where there have been orderly changes of government for your whole life, it is reasonable to assume that the legal challenges to the actions of the Trump Administration which are currently on foot and which have had some success at curbing the excesses, combines with an election in 18 months obviates the necessity for mass demonstrations. There are many ways to contribute to this fight in a free society. Its not necessary to go to the barricades yet to register your opposition and challenge this horror. If it becomes necessary to go to the barricades because the system has not stopped the awfulness, be ready to die or defend yourself, because the legal system won't be there any more. But rest easy, this will pass through political and legal action.

    I suspect the value in demonstrating is to raise awareness and therefore funds for non-state actors to take effective legal action.
  • Trump has stacked the courts though, I think relying solely on the strength of the institutions at this point is extremely optimistic.
  • Do you think massive protests would do any good? Really?

    Trump is more apt to send the military in. Local and state law enforcement would probably be involved--and, in any protest, there's usually someone (on one side or another) who does something stupid, and Bad Things Happen. And people committing civil disobedience aren't necessarily treated any better in custody or prison than anyone else.

    Have you ever seen video/pics of when the police clashed with the Occupy Oakland protestors? There were problems on both sides, and the whole thing got out of control. It looked like Dubya's "shock and awe" campaign in the Middle East. Also look up "Kent State massacre May 4, 1970 pic". The National Guard was called in to handle a campus protest. Several people died. There's one pic that is burned into the brain of anyone who was around then: a distraught girl kneeling over the body of a college boy who'd been killed. (Looking it up, I found out that the girl was actually a 14 year old runaway.)

    There's a long history of American protests turning out badly. What's been proposed on this thread would be apt to be much, much worse. Add in that immigration is a hot-button issue even without the internment camps at the border...and that some militia folks are already involved in either keeping the immigrants away or turning them in...plus all the free-floating anxiety and fear about *everything* that many/most people are carrying around...

    Recipe for massive disaster, that would not help the kids.

    The families need to be reunited, the camps closed down, and the whole immigration system fixed. I don't know how to do that, other than Congress getting its act together, and the Red Cross and the UN raising a huge stink about it.

    (votive)
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Trump has stacked the courts though, I think relying solely on the strength of the institutions at this point is extremely optimistic.

    If he's stacked the courts why isn't he winning cases all the time?

    My host father, in the army all his life and serving in Korea and Vietnam only knows for sure that he killed one person - a bloke in LA during the Watts riots in 1968 (?).
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    You need the backing of other countries to force trump’s hand. Pressure from outside could. Change things. Then again Trump would just put taxes. On those who do that. Yes
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Part of of our problem appears to lie in the fact that we've never had anything quite like this before--I'm thinking here of the incredible ongoing blatant series of lies, lies, lies that comes out of Trump's mouth; his total indifference to norms which are usually stronger than laws; and his absolute shamelessness, which makes it impossible to control him by the usual social methods (e.g. "what will people think?"). There is a dread fascination to the man--it's rather like finding a rattlesnake coiled on your sleeping bag, and you can't look away from it nor yet decide exactly what to do about it. IMHO we are waiting for a single decisive voice or event--something that will finally set free the tsunami of "get RID of him" that is already seething throughout the country, but that hasn't found it's tipping point yet. Something like that moment when McCarthy was told "Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness." and then the famous lines, "Let us not assassinate this lad further, senator. You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?"

    God knows what it will be for Trump. But my gut tells me there will be something, some tipping point, that will snap us out of our gape-jawed shock and galvanize us into action. Please God it comes sooner rather than later.

    (After all, this is one single man. He is not a god. He is not frankly much of an excuse for a man either. I think a lot of folk have begun to take him at his own self-evaluation, and he's become a boogeyman figure. As if he could somehow magically, terribly, invoke a world-ending catastrophe at his slightest whim if we don't walk on eggshells (and don't start with me about the nuclear button, there are other people involved in the implementation or non-implementation of that, regardless of what he likes to believe).

    The turning point could be anything. A child in the street, pointing and laughing. Anything to bring daylight reality back into this irrational dream.
  • Part of of our problem appears to lie in the fact that we've never had anything quite like this before--I'm thinking here of the incredible ongoing blatant series of lies, lies, lies that comes out of Trump's mouth; his total indifference to norms which are usually stronger than laws; and his absolute shamelessness, which makes it impossible to control him by the usual social methods (e.g. "what will people think?"). There is a dread fascination to the man--it's rather like finding a rattlesnake coiled on your sleeping bag, and you can't look away from it nor yet decide exactly what to do about it. IMHO we are waiting for a single decisive voice or event--something that will finally set free the tsunami of "get RID of him" that is already seething throughout the country, but that hasn't found it's tipping point yet. Something like that moment when McCarthy was told "Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness." and then the famous lines, "Let us not assassinate this lad further, senator. You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency?"

    God knows what it will be for Trump. But my gut tells me there will be something, some tipping point, that will snap us out of our gape-jawed shock and galvanize us into action. Please God it comes sooner rather than later.

    (After all, this is one single man. He is not a god. He is not frankly much of an excuse for a man either. I think a lot of folk have begun to take him at his own self-evaluation, and he's become a boogeyman figure. As if he could somehow magically, terribly, invoke a world-ending catastrophe at his slightest whim if we don't walk on eggshells (and don't start with me about the nuclear button, there are other people involved in the implementation or non-implementation of that, regardless of what he likes to believe).

    The turning point could be anything. A child in the street, pointing and laughing. Anything to bring daylight reality back into this irrational dream.

    You've had this repeatedly. Nixon and his crimes. Bush #2 and torture. Constant support of dictators and constant wars, bombings and killing. trumpy is a symptom perhaps the worst so far but he's not the disease.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    American Exceptionalism plus extreme individualism is our rot. The majority of Americans (I'd like to write "vast" before that "majority," but am no longer persuaded that's accurate) believe in and uphold the rule of law. What this fact, combined with the "exceptionalism" and "individualism" nonsense, means in practice is "We believe in the rule of law as it applies to people other than me."

    Confronted with an administration which embraces utter lawlessness -- to the extent that it doesn't even honor something as basic as internal consistency (outside the principles, if we can call them that, which govern white supremacy) -- we no longer have anything to back us up. Can we depend on our police to back us up in our protests? Can we depend on our courts to honor anything resembling justice? Can we depend on our military, even abused as it is, to come to our aid? Will our Congress eagerly authorize action against us if we rebel?

    The only major institutional force remaining we could tu rn to ally with is commercial, ironically enough. Big Business will not forget that WeThe People are ultimately its bread and butter. Armed conflict in the streets among Customers is Not Good for Business.

    As it's also Big Business which is now in charge of our government -- lobbyists write rules and regs, laws favor corporations over humans -- even that alliance may be in doubt.

    If one message is clear since 2016, it's that We The People count for nothing -- LESS than nothing. And this administration has effectively dismantled the framework we've been passively depending on to restrain authoritarian rule.
  • And yet.

    And yet.

    We the People are a damn LOT of people, and not sheep, however much it may look that way at the moment. Given the will to do so (and there's a lot of it at the moment, though badly unfocused), we can throw the bums out.

    We need a focus. We need our focus, instead of depending passively on norms and officials and such to do it for us.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    I am as you know a Brit. We are currently having echos of this re Boris Johnson, who is likely to be PM. We watch with interest.
    The only way to get Trump out is, as far as I can see, for him to let big business down and not bring more money into their pockets. Business is much more important to your culture than ours as you have no effective socialist opposition. If business decides he goes he goes.
  • God knows what it will be for Trump. But my gut tells me there will be something, some tipping point, that will snap us out of our gape-jawed shock and galvanize us into action. Please God it comes sooner rather than later.

    What I think is different about Trump is that he's already had a number of these tipping point moments that should have ended any normal politician's career. The "grab them by the p****" tape. Mocking the disabled NYT reporter. Close advisers convicted of felonies. Hush money paid to a sex worker during an election campaign.

    I don't know if I believe in tipping points anymore, when we as a nation can't even agree on what's true or not. When there were only three TV networks and everybody was working from the same information, maybe. Nowadays a classroom full of children can be slaughtered in their school and a significant percentage of Republican voters will believe it's been faked by the government or the news media as an excuse to take their guns.

    For there to be a tipping point, there would have to be a shocking event that the radical right wing would accept had actually happened (not something they could wave away as a Deep State plot). Or if someone called him out in public, it would have to be somebody the right wing respects. I honestly can't think of a single public figure who Trump's supporters would listen to if they spoke out against him. How do people get out of cults? Because that's what this is now.
  • The thing that worries me most at the moment is the craven behaviour of so many Republicans in Congress.

    I am very familiar with what's in the Mueller report. Yet when I've watched snippets of various committee hearings, I hear Republican after Republican state that the report shows there was no collusion, no crime and no obstruction.

    This is the opposite of true.

    Either they haven't read it which is criminally negligent or they're covering for Trump which is plain criminal.

    AFZ
  • Hugal wrote: »
    I am as you know a Brit. We are currently having echos of this re Boris Johnson, who is likely to be PM. We watch with interest.
    The only way to get Trump out is, as far as I can see, for him to let big business down and not bring more money into their pockets. Business is much more important to your culture than ours as you have no effective socialist opposition. If business decides he goes he goes.

    Hence the idea of the general strike.
  • These recent comments @Ohher and @Lamb Chopped give much hope. Please do this.
  • I just received an E-mail saying, "As a long time Trump supporter." WTF? Beside asking for money for his re-election campaign they had a remarks section. Lets just say I had a lot to remark about, and no I did not send any money.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth 8th Day Host, Mystery Worship Editor
    I can just imagine: "Long time supporter? Like an athletic supporter supports you-know-what. Re-elect? I'd rather see Jabba the Hutt win the election."
  • I'd rather see Jabba the Hutt win the election."
    I recently mentioned to a friend that if I had a choice of voting for Trump or a dog turd, it would definitely be the latter.
  • I guess it's easier to dispose of a dog turd.
  • edited June 2019
    How does trump change a lightbulb?

    Answer#1:
    He grabs it by the pussy?

    Apparently another woman had come forward with report that he sexually assaulted her.

    Answer #2:
    This isn't, you know, average everyday darkness. This is advanced really great, terrific darkness. This is the best darkness you will ever see, believe me. It's fantastic. Iranians don't have this kind of darkness. We have so many great darkness people, we have Mike Pence, we have Ivanka she's a beautiful woman, she's my daughter, great figure, you know, such a beautiful lady I might have dated if she wasn't my daughter. So many great people working in this darkness. It's really big, really fantastic, they're doing a great job thesr darkness people. The most advanced darkness in the history of this great country. It's better than Satan's darkness by far. You look at China, you look at Mexico and Iran, they don't have this great darkness. We're winning. We're winning in darkness, we're winning at the polls. We're doing great. Some people, the fake news people, they don't like our great darkness . Saying the darkness is bad for our people, bad for our country. Real americans are saying, they love the darkness. Make America dark again!
  • I'm with Lamb Chopped. Trust in the system. The system is very very heavy and slow to move, but it will get there. The tool of the system of course is the electorate. Much attention needs to be focused there. Stacey Abrams FTW. I'm glad she's sitting this one out so far.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    I'm with Lamb Chopped. Trust in the system. The system is very very heavy and slow to move, but it will get there.

    The system is the combined actions of individuals.
  • The tool of the system is of course the electorate. Be careful of feeding the Deep State conspiracy.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    The tool of the system is of course the electorate. Be careful of feeding the Deep State conspiracy.

    sorry that last bit is wrong. I'm the one who needs to be careful of feeding a deep state conspiracy because I am talking about the dead weight of an uncooperative bureaucracy.

  • That woman beggars belief. She argues an indefensible position, and not very articulately. Excuse me while I vomit....
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    The Nazis probably said the same about the Jews in Auschwitz.

    Truly, America has become a shameful place (and yes, I know that Ukland is not without fault in these matters...).

    One only hopes that, one day, these egregious people themselves (the potus included) might have to do without soap, toothbrushes, or beds.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    It's possible that her "inarticulacy" -- is that even a word? -- is caused by her internal recognition that she is arguing for evil bullshit (as opposed to against evil bullshit). What I'd REALLY like to hear is the discussion which went forward internally at the DOJ resulting in somebody's -- whose? -- decision to ever argue this position at all. They had options: they could simply have let this go unchallenged and complied with the agreement by distributing soap, toothbrushes, and at a minimum, some foam rubber pallets for sleep. Also note that if this is about money (I believe much of this "detainment" is run as a for-profit enterprise), turning OFF the lights at night would save money too.

    The sheer godawful pettiness of this move -- arguing over toothbrushes and soap -- has Trumpian and Millerish fingerprints all over it. Can't some enterprising investigative reporter find out whose decision it was to argue this? Fabian's doing the arguing, true, but I'll bet Sunday dinner it wasn't her decision. (Yes, I know, acting under orders is no defense. But neither is "deciding to pursue completely unnecessary evil bullshit.")
  • Some legal background from a former federal prosecutor. It's depressing reading. In short, Trump's administration is indeed committing the worst abuses against immigrants in recent memory, but the foundation for them was laid by legal arguments made in previous administrations.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Dear God. Apparently, I owe somebody my Sunday dinner. Thanks (I think) for the link, Antisocial Alto.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Someone was pointing out on twitter that; Anne Frank wasn’t gassed - she died of typhus due to the poor conditions in which she was kept.
  • Someone was pointing out on twitter that; Anne Frank wasn’t gassed - she died of typhus due to the poor conditions in which she was kept.

    And her sister as well.
    :cry:
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    What are the Democrats doing. Surely with their power they can at least make things better?
  • They are attempting to use the House to oversee the operations of the Trump White House and hold the President to account for his conduct. They have passed a large amount of legislation to try and govern the country, but much of it is not even being put to a vote in the Senate. They are speaking out publicly against Trump and the Republicans. They are putting the brakes on the President's recklessness over Iran and I believe they are once again negotiating with the Republicans to try and come up with a way out of this mess that the Republicans have created on the Southern Border. In Democrat controlled states, they are launching legal action against Trump initiatives and acting to shield their constituents from him as much as possible. Sanctuary Cities, for example, have not been cowed and I believe other cities are considering joining them. I think I read something in the Denver post about this but not certain.

    In my opinion, the Democrats are doing a sterling job under very difficult circumstances.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Thanks for clearing that up.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    In my opinion, the Democrats are doing a sterling job under very difficult circumstances.
    Thank you for that. While they now have a majority in the House of Representatives, they have no power in the Senate, the Executive Branch (POTUS), and Judicial Branch (Supreme Court and others). I'm amazed at how much they're attempting and accomplishing.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Sanctuary Cities, for example, have not been cowed and I believe other cities are considering joining them. I think I read something in the Denver post about this but not certain.

    Our Republican governor just banned Sanctuary Cities in Florida. His nose is totally brown, and all up in trump's evil butt.

    The evil part of my brain and heart hopes that all the people who are responsible for the suffering and terror these children are facing will have to endure a thousand times what they have forced on the children. I am not able to eke out any charity toward those monsters.
  • I just can't help wondering where all these cockroaches have been hiding since I was a child. There were always some, but jeez...
Sign In or Register to comment.