Trumpton - the rant thread

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  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    A curious situation has arisen with a Folio Society edition of early Marvel comics, which wanted to be apolitical.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/16/art-spiegelmans-marvel-essay-refused-publication-for-orange-skull-trump-dig
    It's a good essay.
  • Penny S wrote: »
    A curious situation has arisen with a Folio Society edition of early Marvel comics, which wanted to be apolitical.
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/aug/16/art-spiegelmans-marvel-essay-refused-publication-for-orange-skull-trump-dig
    It's a good essay.

    It is indeed. Here's a chilling little extract from it:

    “Armageddon seems somehow plausible, and we’re all turned into helpless children scared of forces grander than we can imagine, looking for respite, and answers, in superheroes flying across screens in our chapel of dreams.”



  • It does seem quite odd to stake your power on keeping people out of the country - and then to want to buy tens of thousands of extra population.

    He could always turn Puerto Rico into a full state first .....
  • He probably thinks the people of Greenland are GREEN, rather than Horrid, and Brown (like the Puerto Ricans).

    You really could NOT make it all up...
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    There's a USAF base up there, doping useful stuff in intelligence gathering, and perhaps they have to pay rent for it. And they could watch over Russian movements in the channel between Greenland and Norway. Also keep an eye on satellites in polar orbits. Not to mention having an argument for free passage through the Canadian waters of the North-West Passage, and access to possible mineral reserves. The existence of Greenlanders is probably entirely irrelevant, and he may even think of it as an empty place - Terra Nullius, is it? Like Israel before Zionism.
  • I suspect you mean doing useful stuff, but doping sounds about right, too.

    Mind you, I thought Ukland was set to become the next State of InsaniaUsania. What's all this about buying somewhere else first?

    Is Outrage!
    :naughty:
  • Perhaps he's looking for a Siberia-like place to send any political dissidents to.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    And if it's mineral resources, I know where there's a deposit of Frobisher's gold he can buy, under a car park in Dartford, just upstream from where Franklin left for the North-West Passage.
    Then there's recovering a nuclear warhead from the Thule incident, or possibly revitalising the cunning plan to hide 600 warheads under the Greenland icecap.
    Or investigating the alien material from large meteorites which have landed there.
    Must proof read better. Or shrink right hand fingers.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2019
    Or he may be hoping to get his orange mitts on the strategic reserve of wood-burning steam railway locomotives, which those cunning Greenlanders have stashed away, unbeknownst to anyone else*...

    There are, of course, no railways in Greenland, and not much in the way of roads, Presidential Cavalcades/Military Parades for the use of, either.

    (*In which case, he's got the wrong country, and had best make an offer for Finland, though AIUI he might be too late...).
  • jbohnjbohn Shipmate
    The Rogue wrote: »
    Perhaps he's looking for a Siberia-like place to send any political dissidents to.
    <tangent>I am told my grandfather was stationed there for two years, because his wife (secretary to the base commander) found out he'd been having an affair...</tangent>

  • jbohn wrote: »
    The Rogue wrote: »
    Perhaps he's looking for a Siberia-like place to send any political dissidents to.
    <tangent>I am told my grandfather was stationed there for two years, because his wife (secretary to the base commander) found out he'd been having an affair...</tangent>

    Ouch!

    Siberia is a huge place though, and some spots seem less miserable than others.
  • Not this one, though, perhaps:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakutsk

    A good place to which to send the Great Orange Goblin, when he finally crashes in flames (may that Blessed Day be not long delayed).

    OTOH, the good people of Yakutsk probably have enough to cope with...
  • Yeah, in places like that, the summers are, if anything, even worse owing to the clouds of mosquitoes.
  • They have summers ?
    :astonished:
  • https://www.foliosociety.com/uk The Folio Society are publishing comics now?
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    In Heaven, one of the threads has mentions of 'gaslighting'. Even though I know a broad definition of the term, I looked up the definition on the internet.
    Here is something I found at Psychology Today. Most of those signs seem to describe Trump. Is he gaslighting the whole country, or even the whole world?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Trump: I remember, growing up, we had mental institutions. Then they were closed -- in New York, I'm talking about. They were -- many of them were closed. A lot of them were closed. And all of those people were put out on the streets. And I said, even as a young guy, I said, 'How does that work? That's not a good thing'. And it's not a good thing. So I think the concept of mental institution has to be looked at.

    Unrelated to that, I believe that the concept also of voter identification also has to be looked at, because you can't have great security for the voter. People that vote, you can't have that national security unless you're going to have voter identification. It's something people have to look at very strongly.

    Q: Sir, what does that have to do with guns?

    The question he was responding to was "Mr. President, the Dayton shooter had a 100-round-capacity magazine. Would you support banning high-capacity magazines?" I guess the reporter asking what this had to do with guns was the journalistic equivalent of "Sir, this is an Arby's".

    There's got to be some point where Trump's bizarre ranting is legitimate for comment.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    jedijudy wrote: »
    In Heaven, one of the threads has mentions of 'gaslighting'. Even though I know a broad definition of the term, I looked up the definition on the internet.
    Here is something I found at Psychology Today. Most of those signs seem to describe Trump. Is he gaslighting the whole country, or even the whole world?

    Yep. The whole world.

    🌍

  • But that implies that he actually has a deep laid Cunning Plan™, which I see absolutely no evidence for and never have seen.

    I think the Emperor has no clothes on, and what we're really seeing is dementia.
  • The Awful Truth might be that he himself has no Cunning Plan, but that others do, and are using him...
    :scream:
  • jbohnjbohn Shipmate
    jbohn wrote: »
    The Rogue wrote: »
    Perhaps he's looking for a Siberia-like place to send any political dissidents to.
    <tangent>I am told my grandfather was stationed there for two years, because his wife (secretary to the base commander) found out he'd been having an affair...</tangent>

    Ouch!

    Siberia is a huge place though, and some spots seem less miserable than others.

    I should have been clearer - he was sent to Thule AFB in Greenland (he was in the U.S. Air Force).
  • The Awful Truth might be that he himself has no Cunning Plan, but that others do, and are using him...
    :scream:
    I am sure of it.
  • And maybe part of T is gaslighting himself. His damage and brokenness and illness cause him to need to always be a winner ('cause his dad taught the kids that only winners deserve to be loved), and need constant attention and reassurance. He can't function at all without that. So IMHO he gaslights himself into believing he is a winner, and reinforces that by gaslighting everyone else.

    Hmmm...could we gaslight him back? Preferably in a way that isn't cruel?
  • The Awful Truth might be that he himself has no Cunning Plan, but that others do, and are using him...
    :scream:

    Yes, re using him. But I gather that many users found out they couldn't control him.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    The sad truth, he turns out to be a Useless Idiot.
  • My take (which could of course be wrong) is that he's basically spewing out dementia-stuff right and left, and his staff are playing constant catch-up, all the while attempting to turn his wake into some sort of coherent narrative (that isn't just "this is pure demented *&(^*^@$!)
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    If it is dementia the disease can progress rapidly after a period of slow decline.

    Could be interesting times ahead.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    In the strictest definitional sense throwing a tantrum and knocking over the board is "three dimensional chess".
  • My take (which could of course be wrong) is that he's basically spewing out dementia-stuff right and left, and his staff are playing constant catch-up, all the while attempting to turn his wake into some sort of coherent narrative (that isn't just "this is pure demented *&(^*^@$!)
    I wish it was dementia. It appears to contain more intentional ill-will, malice, deflection, intentional race-baiting and filthy locker-room talk than brain atrophy would suggest. This isn't about diagnosis of brain, personality, symptoms, psychosocial adjustment. The problem is one of humanity, morality, dignity, self-control, intentionally cultivating evil.

    I imagine that visits from the ghosts of the past, present and future might be entertaining, but I presume such ghosts are not allowed to actually physically hurt their Scrooges nor scare the absolute shit right out of them. With this one, there be a lot of shit, of all of the varieties as described by the Bristol Stool Chart.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited August 2019
    Even assholes get dementia. I would expect that the demented outpourings of a wicked man would be on average more wicked than those of an average Joe. Though to be fair, the disease state shows wide variability, and it's not fair to conclude that everyone suffering from a particularly noxious form of dementia was therefore a bastard in his/her previous life. But I don't think Trump can claim to be an unjustly accursed saint...
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Though to be fair, the disease state shows wide variability, and it's not fair to conclude that everyone suffering from a particularly noxious form of dementia was therefore a bastard in his/her previous life.

    A friend's grandmother was a lovely person* before the dementia set in. She eventually became awful - she shouted and cursed at staff in the facility where she lived, and hit them and threw things at them. She was a completely different person. It was horrible for everyone involved.

    *Of course we all know this is not true of Trump.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    That ANYONE on his cabinet and staff or in his household allows this to continue without intervention renders them morally assailable for everything he says and does.
  • Does trumpy have a conscience at all? There's a "less than human" thread. Can a human actually extinguish his soul? Destroy their humanity?
  • Sigh...
    I have a friend who is in The Log Cabin Republicans (Gay Republicans, for those who don't know) and he and his pals just endorsed Trump for 2020. No surprise, really, as there isn't another Republican Presidential candidate at the moment. My friend says TLCR did not endorse Trump in 2016. I'll have to ask him who they did endorse and why it wasn't Trump.

    Anyway, he and I were talking about Trump and my friend said that Trump was doing a very good job growing the economy and deregulating a lot of things that Obama had undermined when he was in office. He said Republicans stood for deregulation and that was always a good thing for the economy. My friend doesn't seem to think that Trump is evil...in fact, when I said Trump was evil, my friend asked me to give examples and I mentioned all the sexist, racist things he is always spouting, his "daddy issues", his admiration for dictators, his complete and willful ignorance about how the world functions, his arrogance and mean-spiritedness...and many more things.

    And my friend said, "Prove it! Prove to me he says racist and sexist things. Do you think Obama was some paragon of virtue? How about Bill Clinton? He is just as vile as you say Trump is. Democrats act like they're morally superior to Republicans but most of them are so far to the Left that it's like the pot calling the kettle black!"

    I didn't know how to counter that.
  • Being far to the left and leaving children to die in cages of preventable disease are not equivalent ?
  • I'm surprised Trump didn't offer to buy Denmark, while he was about it. Or perhaps he was going to do that during his state visit, if the Danes hadn't been so obstructive? After all, he's well on the way to buying the UK.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2019
    At least the Danes can rejoice that the Great Orange Goblin has thrown his toys out of the pram, and is not now proposingthreatening to visit their country.

    A happy escape.

    I'm surprised HM Queen Margrethe invited him, but I suppose she had to, as one Head of State to another. Bet she's relieved, though.
    :grimace:

  • Can a human actually extinguish his soul?
    He no longer has one to extinguish. He sold it to you-know-who long ago.
    :naughty:

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited August 2019
    The5thMary wrote: »
    I have a friend who is in The Log Cabin Republicans (Gay Republicans, for those who don't know) and he and his pals just endorsed Trump for 2020. No surprise, really, as there isn't another Republican Presidential candidate at the moment. My friend says TLCR did not endorse Trump in 2016. I'll have to ask him who they did endorse and why it wasn't Trump.

    I believe the Log Cabin Republicans didn't endorse anyone for president in 2016. It's understandable. You don't want to endorse anyone during the primary and piss off the eventual winner if you pick wrong, and Trump's anti-gay stances were unpopular with LCR's constituent members. What I want to know is why the Log Cabin Republicans think Trump has performed better than their fears in 2016? He's imposed a ban on transgender folks serving in the military, something the military leadership itself doesn't want. He's promulgated employment regulations that allow federal contractors to fire gay people for being gay. If the LCRs think this stuff is okay and endorsable it's fairly obvious why some of their membership is (allegedly) fleeing the organization.
    At least the Danes can rejoice that the Great Orange Goblin has thrown his toys out of the pram, and is not now proposing threatening to visit their country.

    A happy escape.

    Someone suggested that other countries could prevent Trump visits by preemptively refusing to sell him territory. Then there was this suggestion:
    I bet Australia gets all smart and sells him New Zealand. When he shows up and finds out Australia didn't own New Zealand, it will be hilarious. Best. Scam. Ever.
  • :lol:

    Or perhaps someone could write, and offer to sell him Ruritania?

    https://web.archive.org/web/20130621144019/micronations.wikia.com/wiki/Kingdom_of_Ruritania
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Even assholes get dementia. I would expect that the demented outpourings of a wicked man would be on average more wicked than those of an average Joe. Though to be fair, the disease state shows wide variability, and it's not fair to conclude that everyone suffering from a particularly noxious form of dementia was therefore a bastard in his/her previous life. But I don't think Trump can claim to be an unjustly accursed saint...

    I was very doubtful about your idea that he has dementia. This latest crazy Greenland episode has me wondering if you are correct. 🤔

  • I am tempted to think that this some kind of prank, perhaps a distraction of some sort. A bit of meat to send the media into another frenzy while he quietly does some other horrible thing.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    I am tempted to think that this some kind of prank, perhaps a distraction of some sort. A bit of meat to send the media into another frenzy while he quietly does some other horrible thing.

    Is he really that clever?

  • It seems like a pretty simple tactic to me. He's no genius but I would say he has a certain degree of cunning. The media are highly reactive and easily manipulated.

    On the other hand, there are plausible strategic reasons why the US might inquire into buying Greenland, as absurd as it sounds. But that's a conversation to be had behind closed doors.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    On the other hand, there are plausible strategic reasons why the US might inquire into buying Greenland, as absurd as it sounds.

    Indeed. Such an acquisition would be advantageous to the U.S. on a number of levels. It's just that there doesn't seem to be any advantage in such an action for either Denmark or the Greenlanders. Plus the very important fact that, unlike the Trump Administration, Greenland is not for sale.
  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Can a human actually extinguish his soul?
    He no longer has one to extinguish. He sold it to you-know-who long ago.
    :naughty:

    You mean the Casino mogul Sheldon Adelson I suppose.
  • I expect the Danes are breathing a sigh of relief. They will probably celebrate with an extra cup of coffee.
  • And some PASTRY...
    :sweat_smile:
  • sionisais wrote: »
    I expect the Danes are breathing a sigh of relief. They will probably celebrate with an extra cup of coffee.

    Decaf, of course. They've already had two cups today and they need their eight hours.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the US had enquired discreetly about purchasing Greenland on other occasions since Truman, but we never heard about it. This time the "not for sale" response is a snub to Trump, as he is of course indistinguishable from Great-Again-America. Therefore he must get his own back: I'm not coming to visit. There, that'll show'em.

    Or maybe he just couldn't be arsed to go to Denmark and wanted an excuse to spend the weekend golfing at Marigoldio, or whatever his favourite gin palace is called.
  • The5thMary wrote: »
    ...

    And my friend said, "Prove it! Prove to me he says racist and sexist things. Do you think Obama was some paragon of virtue? How about Bill Clinton? He is just as vile as you say Trump is. Democrats act like they're morally superior to Republicans but most of them are so far to the Left that it's like the pot calling the kettle black!"

    I didn't know how to counter that.

    The answer to that is always, "Why are you bringing these other people into the conversation? Are you trying to distract me from Trump? I'm not interested in those people, I'm talking about Donald Trump. If you want to talk about people who aren't even in office anymore, go talk to someone else. I want to talk about the person who is actually in office right now and who could actually have a major effect on our lives."

    If you choose, you can be even more blunt and say, "Whatever, I didn't like X either. It was wrong when X did it, and it's wrong when Trump does it. Can we get back to the main conversation now?"

    Yes, I get this kind of deflection too quite often. Can't you tell?
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