Trumpton - the rant thread

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  • Dave W wrote: »
    That would have been very odd - but the award was announced on October 9, 2009, at which point Obama had been President for about 9 months.

    Thank you for the correction; I felt sure he was given the honour after he'd been elected but before he took office.

    That's what I thought, too. At the time, I wished he'd either turn it down, or ask them to hold it for him until he did something to deserve it.

  • Was the prize announced before he became President, but given after?
  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Nope.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, 8th Day Host, Hell Host
    Dave W wrote: »
    That would have been very odd - but the award was announced on October 9, 2009, at which point Obama had been President for about 9 months.
    It was still undeserved, and Obama still set the stage for some of Trump's negative accomplishments, including the misuse of executive orders. He was also the Assassin-in-Chief, personally okaying all targets for drone strikes. Make no mistake - I would far rather have him as president than the orange incumbent - but he was hardly faultless.


  • Dave WDave W Shipmate
    Who said he was?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Barack Obama essentially won the Nobel Prize in Not Being George W. Bush. I suspect that the next Democratic president will encounter similar “accolade pressure” on the basis of his/her predecessor. Probably not a Nobel, but other awards.

    Some have suggested that the Nobel committee was mindful of what happened to the only other African-American to win the Peace Prize and decided to take the opportunity while it was available. (Nobels can't be awarded posthumously.)
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 3
    A sombre thought, whether that was indeed the case, or not.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    My own theory about that Nobel is that it represented the givers' recognition of the US electorate having managed to address, in some small part, its own racism by voting a black American to its Presidency. As the prize can only be awarded to individual humans, not to nations or societies, this one came out topsy-turvy; the prize got handed to the beneficiary of the earners' efforts rather than to those earning it. Rather as though the prize were granted not to the one who cured cancer, but to those who had been cured.

    Either way, it now appears the prize was premature.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    It appeared then that it was premature!
  • I remember it well. I actually cringed.
  • Be careful, people. Obama, for all his faults, is at least a Decentish Humming Bean.

    Trump is an Evil Overlord, probably Venusian, who doesn't want global warming to decrease, as the general surface temperature of Venus is higher than ours.

    The Venusians, in trying to create Humming Beans, have got the Hair all wrong. Just look at Kim Wrong-Trim, the late Colonel Gaddafi, and the peculiar Boris Johnson (a travesty, if ever there was).
  • Be careful, people. Obama, for all his faults, is at least a Decentish Humming Bean.

    Still known as Assassin-in-Chief, for his penchant for extra-judicial killing via drone strikes. Nearly 4000 people.
  • Ah. I stand corrected.
    :grimace:
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Be careful, people. Obama, for all his faults, is at least a Decentish Humming Bean.

    Still known as Assassin-in-Chief, for his penchant for extra-judicial killing via drone strikes. Nearly 4000 people.

    Why does Obama get this title when Trump has passed him? (This is one of the few cases where Trump can truthfully claim to have exceeded Obama, though we can't be sure by how much since Trump revoked Obama's executive order that the number of drone strike deaths be publicly reported.)

    I can't avoid the sneaking suspicion that Obama gets blamed for a drone program that started under George W. Bush and reached its greatest extent (so far) under Donald Trump because the idea of a black man pulling the trigger is that much scarier to some folks.
  • Our tendency to beatify Obama covers up some unpleasant truths.
  • He wasn't perfect, but he was a darn sight better than the guys immediately before and after.
  • Obama wanted to get the Americans out of Afghanistan so that they didn't keep dying in combat with the Taliban, as that's not popular with the folks at home, but he needed to keep fighting them, so went for a different kind of evil in the form of drone strikes: no US combatants to get killed, but in a very dispersed kind of war such as the conflict in Afghanistan, civilian deaths increased significantly.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    My own theory about that Nobel is that it represented the givers' recognition of the US electorate having managed to address, in some small part, its own racism by voting a black American to its Presidency. As the prize can only be awarded to individual humans, not to nations or societies, this one came out topsy-turvy.

    Nice theory, but it is not so. Many groups have won the NPP, including the Red Cross (three times). In the last 25 years it has been won by groups or societies ten times, including the UN, the EU, OPCW, and the International Panel on Climate change.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Obama may not have beeen a saint, but he was presentable in polite society, and could put words together in a recognisable language. But I suppose the same could be said of Mephistopheles
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited February 9
    Pendragon wrote: »
    Obama wanted to get the Americans out of Afghanistan so that they didn't keep dying in combat with the Taliban, as that's not popular with the folks at home, but he needed to keep fighting them, so went for a different kind of evil in the form of drone strikes: no US combatants to get killed, but in a very dispersed kind of war such as the conflict in Afghanistan, civilian deaths increased significantly.

    Do you have a source for that, comparing the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan before and during Obama's tenure? My impression from reports linked by Martin in response to my questions is that civilian deaths from drone strikes only over a period of six years is something like 800. That is a very low figure, yet much higher than that reported by the Administration. Here is the relevant article.

    There does seem to be a problem getting accurate numbers. But maybe you have access to sources I can't find quickly.
  • Comparing Obama to Trump is like trying to compare an apple to a duck.

    Of course the man isn't a saint, but given a choice between him, and the Great Orange Goblin, I know who I'd rather have at my side in a crisis...

  • Comparing Obama to Trump is like trying to compare an apple to a duck.

    Of course the man isn't a saint, but given a choice between him, and the Great Orange Goblin, I know who I'd rather have at my side in a crisis...

    If you were a US citizen, sure. But not if you were a Pakistani taxi driver whose last fare just happened to be a member of the Taliban.

    "Better than Trump" would not be the stardard I would want history to judge me by.
  • OK.

    Point taken.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited February 10
    whoopsie!
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, 8th Day Host, Hell Host
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Our tendency to beatify Obama covers up some unpleasant truths.
    Indeed. Executive Orders abounded, too.

  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Our tendency to beatify Obama covers up some unpleasant truths.
    Indeed. Executive Orders abounded, too.

    There's a reason for that.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited February 11
    A farce in three acts.

    Act One:
    Prosecutors ask for 7 to 9 years in prison for Roger Stone

    Prosecutors have asked a federal judge to sentence Roger Stone, a former informal adviser to President Donald Trump, to seven to nine years in prison for lying to Congress and witness tampering during the Russia investigation, according to a new court filing.

    "Roger Stone obstructed Congress' investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, lied under oath, and tampered with a witness. And when his crimes were revealed by the indictment in this case, he displayed contempt for this Court and the rule of law. For that, he should be punished in accord with the advisory Guidelines," prosecutors wrote on Monday.

    The prosecutors said Stone's recommended sentencing, based on standardized calculations, is 87 months to 108 months in prison, which amounts to about seven to nine years.

    Stone is scheduled to be sentenced next week. He was found guilty on all seven charges brought against him in November.

    Act Two:
    Donald J. Trump
    This is a horrible and very unfair situation. The real crimes were on the other side, as nothing happens to them. Cannot allow this miscarriage of justice!
    10 Feb 2020

    Act Three:
    Feds Back Away from Roger Stone Sentencing Proposal
    President Trump tweeted that it was “a very horrible and unfair situation” after the the Justice Department recommended Roger Stone get seven to nine years in prison.

    The Department of Justice is backing away from its sentencing recommendation of between seven to nine years in prison for Trump confidant Roger Stone, a department official told the AP.

    The official says there had been no contact with the White House over the decision, though President Donald Trump tweeted early Tuesday calling it “a very horrible and unfair situation” after the recommendation was made in a court filing Monday evening.

    The official said the recommendation was extreme and excessive, and disproportionate to Stone’s offenses. The official was not authorized to speak publicly and spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity.

    What an amazing coincidence!

    I never want to hear any Republican ever accuse anyone outside their party of being "soft on crime" after this.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Epilogue: Two of the prosecutors from the Stone case have withdrawn, one from the case and the other from the entire Department of Justice. Apparently whatever the new sentencing recommendation is neither Aaron Zelinsky (unfortunate surname) nor Jonathan Kravis wants their name associated with it.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Make that three. Adam Jed has also withdrawn from the Stone prosecution team. How long before "Tuesday Afternoon Massacre" becomes a trending hashtag?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Four.

    It should be noted that the sentence will be decided by the judge in the case, but that judges ruling more harshly than the prosecutors' recommended sentence is often cited as grounds for pardons or sentence commutations.

    For those who want to read the DoJ's revised sentencing recommendation you can find it here [PDF]. IANAL but it reads to me like an equivocating hack job. It makes no specific recommendation other than that Stone "deserves a sentence of incarceration" but that "a sentence of between 87 to 108 months’ imprisonment, however, could be considered excessive and unwarranted under the circumstances".
  • I don't know if farce is a strong enough word for that.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, 8th Day Host, Hell Host
    mousethief wrote: »
    Rossweisse wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Our tendency to beatify Obama covers up some unpleasant truths.
    Indeed. Executive Orders abounded, too.

    There's a reason for that.
    I understand, but it still set an unfortunate precedent, and the fascist toadies now in power are making full use of it.


  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, 8th Day Host, Hell Host
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I don't know if farce is a strong enough word for that.
    How about "obscenity"?

  • You know, I think this would be a great time for T and his hench associates to go off to summer camp. Fun activities, trained counselors, playing 'til worn out, less stress, far away...

    Kind of like a happier version of the White Hotel...and they can never leave.
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    Does Trump remind you more of Caligula or of Nero?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    HarryCH wrote: »
    Does Trump remind you more of Caligula or of Nero?

    Santino "Sonny" Corleone.
  • yeah. He's a mobster, not an emperor.
  • Caligula (mad & emperor), Nero (emperor), AND Corleone (Mafia Godfather).

    Plus a very sad little boy.
  • An object of pity, indeed.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    edited February 13
    He hasn't appointed his horse a senator. (But with McConnell there he doesn't need to.)
  • And, in an exclusive interview with ABC News, Barr was all {paraphrase} "who, ME, influenced by the president? I didn't do no stinkin' intervening, and the president really needs to shut his little keyboard".

    Embarrassment? CYA*? Truth? "My God, this is getting real!"?

    *"Cover Your *ss".
  • the trumps @ the Daytona 500:
    Mrs. 45 thought "pole position" meant...something else.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    You know, I think this would be a great time for T and his hench associates to go off to summer camp. Fun activities, trained counselors, playing 'til worn out, less stress, far away...

    Kind of like a happier version of the White Hotel...and they can never leave.
    Do you mean DM Thomas' The White Hotel?


    “I didn't know till then the stars, in flakes of snow come down to fuck the earth,"

    Do we end also in massacre?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    edited February 17
    NP--

    No, sorry. I've heard "The White Hotel" referred to as a place you can never leave. Primarily in the "The Royale" episode of "Star Trek: The Next Generation", IIRC, which was another hotel guests couldn't leave.

    I may have that totally mixed up. Sorry, if so. Thx for trying to help.

    ETA: Ok, turns out I had it mixed up with the song "Hotel California". Please return to your regular discussion, while I go hide in a nice cave.
  • Never mind - your point is apposite.

    How wonderful if the Great Orange God-Emperor could be isolated in such a manner.
    :naughty:
  • The White Hotel had me going in the direction of the Coen brothers universe, ie the Netflix series Fargo where there's always snow on the ground and someone cheerfully killing someone else. Thanatos having turned 'the devil, the prowde spirite, cannot endure to be mocked' into cartoon. Both Homers would be pleased.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 17
    Not quite connecting with your thoughts, @NOprophet_NØprofit , but this quote (from Thomas More?) seems entirely apt when considering the God-Emperor:
    'the devil, the prowde spirite, cannot endure to be mocked'
    :grimace:
  • NP, is that Homer the poet and Homer Simpson?
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    NP, is that Homer the poet and Homer Simpson?

    Yes. Thanatos is the proposal of a death instinct. Life denying. Don't you think the Homers would be friends? I can imagine them navigating through the frozen murderland and eating Kentucky fried chicken together, chuckimg the bones out the window of their car. Haven't thought through what the soundtrack should be.

    And yes @Bishops Finger STM. Who behaved goodly and badly like the rest of us.
  • edited February 19
    Leaving Hotel California, here's another famous song. This one re-worked to a good cause.

    The Day Democracy Died
    Singin' vote for anyone but this guy.
    Vote for anyone but this guy.
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