Canterbury Cap

The Rectory CatThe Rectory Cat Shipmate Posts: 1
Hi folks, please can anyone advise the correct times to wear a Canterbury cap for a priest celebrating Holy Communion? As far as I can tell, it is when processing and when seated, but Dearmer also says something about wearing it while pronouncing absolution ... *confused face*

And what do you do with it when not wearing it? Thanks.
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  • BabyWombatBabyWombat Shipmate
    Well, I am no expert and bow to others more knowledgeable here, but I love my Canterbury Cap in cold weather! I follow the pattern of the older RC practice for the biretta -- on the head when processing or sitting in one's chair, off when standing for the gospel and creed, and certainly off when celebrating. I remove it for the confession of sin and do not put it back on for the absolution. (And wear it not if the church has good heating)

    Now, it can be fun to tip one's biretta to a prelate (rather like tipping a top hat) but it is quite difficult to tip a Canterbury cap. I tend to need both hands to get it on snugly enough so as to not slide around. (Husband says I am enough of a fat head some days that should not be a problem )

    A very high up the candle priest friend wears a biretta, and will just barely lift it off the forehead at the mention of St. Mary, before settling it back down. Husband also says that looks like something out of an old movie set in the wild west, as if said priest is saying "Howdy m'am, just passing through"
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    edited March 23
    @The Rectory Cat - which book by Dearmer are you referencing? My recollection is that the Cap is not worn during services but with cassock and gown. Mind you, you may have provided me with a handy distraction whilst I am home with my wings clipped with this virus business.
  • It is surely most Unseemly not to doff the Cap (or the Biretta, for that matter) at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus, even if it becomes a bit of a chore should a visiting preacher be in the habit of mentioning the Holy Name every thirty seconds or so.

    At least the frequent doffing and donning would keep the wearer awake, should the sermon be, shall we say, dull...
  • PendragonPendragon Shipmate
    I believe that if you have one of those sermons you take it off after about the 3rd or 4th time and keep it off
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    I was at a licensing once at St. Mary’s Kenton when the then Bishop of Fulham was preaching at a licensing. I began to think he was messing with the ‘doffers’ when he said something like, “What is central to our Faith? It is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the heart of our faith - Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!” This led to multiple rapid doffing by some of those present.
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    I was brought up with the custom that the Canterbury Cap, unlike the biretta, was not worn during services. The infirm, and for that matter, those who really feel the cold were instructed by the old (1604) Canons to wear a coif or skullcap.
  • BroJames wrote: »
    I was at a licensing once at St. Mary’s Kenton when the then Bishop of Fulham was preaching at a licensing. I began to think he was messing with the ‘doffers’ when he said something like, “What is central to our Faith? It is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the heart of our faith - Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!” This led to multiple rapid doffing by some of those present.

    :lol:

  • It is surely most Unseemly not to doff the Cap (or the Biretta, for that matter) at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus, even if it becomes a bit of a chore should a visiting preacher be in the habit of mentioning the Holy Name every thirty seconds or so.

    This is when the wily visiting preacher develops an impromptu exegesis about cheeses?
  • PigwidgeonPigwidgeon Shipmate
    edited March 23
    It is surely most Unseemly not to doff the Cap (or the Biretta, for that matter) at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus, even if it becomes a bit of a chore should a visiting preacher be in the habit of mentioning the Holy Name every thirty seconds or so.

    This is when the wily visiting preacher develops an impromptu exegesis about cheeses?

    His text would obviously be "Blessed are the cheese makers."

    And the sermon hymn would be "What a friend we have in cheeses."*

    :wink:

    *This was the actual chapter title in a cookbook many years ago.
  • It is surely most Unseemly not to doff the Cap (or the Biretta, for that matter) at the mention of the Holy Name of Jesus, even if it becomes a bit of a chore should a visiting preacher be in the habit of mentioning the Holy Name every thirty seconds or so.

    This is when the wily visiting preacher develops an impromptu exegesis about cheeses?

    Hehe - and muttering the while, so as to further discombobulate the Holy Clergy, who would be uncertain as to whether they were hearing aright...

    :naughty:
  • AmosAmos Shipmate
    The Canterbury cap isn't worn during Holy Communion, though I suppose you could wear it during the Lord's Supper if your church was particularly cold. It's a Reformation item of head-wear designed to keep you warm. It doesn't betoken priesthood, or a degree from the University of Bologna, or anything like that. Wear it with choir dress at Mattins and Evensong, like my curate does, or around town for fun, as Rowan Williams's son did when RW was Cantuar.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Amos wrote: »
    The Canterbury cap isn't worn during Holy Communion, though I suppose you could wear it during the Lord's Supper if your church was particularly cold. It's a Reformation item of head-wear designed to keep you warm. It doesn't betoken priesthood, or a degree from the University of Bologna, or anything like that. Wear it with choir dress at Mattins and Evensong, like my curate does, or around town for fun, as Rowan Williams's son did when RW was Cantuar.
    I think that's right.

    Historically, as it well known, men were not supposed to cover their heads in worship and women were. This comes from St Paul.

  • Hmm. Paul lived in a hot country, not the freezing purlieus of Reformation Northern Europe!

    @Amos has it right, I think.
  • BabyWombatBabyWombat Shipmate
    To avoid cost or oddness of a Canterbury Cap another simple head warmer in cold churches is a simple man's Islamic prayer cap -- inexpensive, foldable, snug fitting and in a variety of colors -- my simple gray one does even somewhat blend in with my hair, and keeps me warm during the lessons and a colleague's lengthy sermons.

    And, mention of mine comes with an odd story! I placed my order on line, and was shipped a shirt instead. I contacted the seller (a major Islamic clothing company) about a return. They confided that my cap had been sent to a woman in another part of the US, and the shirt I recieved was to have gone to her. Their solution was that she and I should contact eachother and swap via post. We did so and in discussion she shared that her son, raised Christian, was becoming a Muslim and she, sad as she was, wanted to support him in his decision and had ordered the shirt so she could in some way, wrap him 'round. I confided I was simply a priest with a cold head, averse to wearing a ski cap when vested. We chatted quite some time, and promised to keep each other (and her son) in prayer for the next six months. A cap that came with a blessing!
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    A beautiful story, babywombat - thank you!
  • Indeed.

    It reminds me of a Mass I attended at an Abbey in southern France some years ago. The church has a south-facing window in the chancel, so, after Communion, the Abbot disappeared into the sacristy, and emerged therefrom wearing a baseball cap* to protect his bald head from the hot noonday sunshine streaming in, whilst the post-Communion prayer, and the Angelus, were said and sung.

    *It did NOT proclaim 'Make America (or anywhere else) Great Again!
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    Amos wrote: »
    The Canterbury cap isn't worn during Holy Communion, though I suppose you could wear it during the Lord's Supper if your church was particularly cold. It's a Reformation item of head-wear designed to keep you warm. It doesn't betoken priesthood, or a degree from the University of Bologna, or anything like that. Wear it with choir dress at Mattins and Evensong, like my curate does, or around town for fun, as Rowan Williams's son did when RW was Cantuar.

    Actually the square cap is pre-reformation, as half an hour in the NPG would prove if it were open. Fox, Wolsey, and Warham are depicted in quire habit wearing Canterbury caps.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    My colleague in the coldest town in the diocese sports a magnificent lack of hair. A parishioner knitted him a wonderful every colour of the rainbow beanie (is that an antipodean expression?) that he dons most liturgically every Sunday (for about nine months of the year) as he exits the church ... kinda endearing
  • :lol:

    We have beanies in Northern latitudes, too...
  • john holdingjohn holding Ecclesiantics Host, Mystery Worshipper Host
    ROund here (Canada) -- not that I've seen one in decades -- a beanie is basically a skullcap, sometimes with a sort of stem sticking up from the centre. I only encountered them in the context of freshie/frosh orientations at universities, and that was nearly 60 years ago. They probably died out half a century ago.
    I take it that that's not the kind of thing you mean by beanie.
  • CruntCrunt Shipmate
    ROund here (Canada) -- not that I've seen one in decades ... a beanie is basically a skullcap, sometimes with a sort of stem sticking up from the centre
    I take it that that's not the kind of thing you mean by beanie.

    I think Canadians call it a tuque (beanie to most other parts of the world).

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    A beanie here is a knitted woollen skullcap, often multi-coloured, and crowned with pom-pom made from the same wool.. Back in the day, they were usually homemade.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited March 29
    Gee D wrote: »
    A beanie here is a knitted woollen skullcap, often multi-coloured, and crowned with pom-pom made from the same wool.. Back in the day, they were usually homemade.
    Those are called toboggans here (American South).

    Here, a beanie is the kind of hat that Brownies wear.

  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    The toboggan thing flummoxed me when I first came to Virginia. The terms I was more familiar with were woolly hat, watch cap, bobble hat, etc.. I swear my Gran used the same pattern for a woolly hat and a tea cosy! By the way, if she couldn't find the tea cosy watch your woolly hat because would commandeer it to cover the teapot.

    My usual head gear is the flat cap, of which I seem to have about half a dozen of various colours. My favourite is a greenish tweed number with a 'Made in Yorkshire' label in it. I have a fairly large head, so when I find one the right size I tend to buy it. My happiest hunting ground seems to be market stalls.

    My Canterbury Cap is a relic of the much lamented (by me anyway) Vanheems company, and is seen on any occasion on which I have to hang around outside in a cassock.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    A beanie here is a knitted woollen skullcap, often multi-coloured, and crowned with pom-pom made from the same wool.. Back in the day, they were usually homemade.
    Those are called toboggans here (American South).

    Here, a beanie is the kind of hat that Brownies wear.

    It's so long since I saw a Brownie that I can't remember what they (or Cubs for that matter) wear, but there'd almost certainly be either a brim or a peak.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    A beanie here is a knitted woollen skullcap, often multi-coloured, and crowned with pom-pom made from the same wool.. Back in the day, they were usually homemade.
    Those are called toboggans here (American South).

    Here, a beanie is the kind of hat that Brownies wear.

    It's so long since I saw a Brownie that I can't remember what they (or Cubs for that matter) wear, but there'd almost certainly be either a brim or a peak.
    Nope, at least not in the US. See the picture to which I linked.

  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    U.K. Brownies wear a baseball cap.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    A beanie here is a knitted woollen skullcap, often multi-coloured, and crowned with pom-pom made from the same wool.. Back in the day, they were usually homemade.
    Those are called toboggans here (American South).

    Here, a beanie is the kind of hat that Brownies wear.

    It's so long since I saw a Brownie that I can't remember what they (or Cubs for that matter) wear, but there'd almost certainly be either a brim or a peak.
    Nope, at least not in the US. See the picture to which I linked.

    Yes, that's why I added the comment.

    For reasons I never understood, my parents were dead against them. My sisters were not Brownies or Guides, I was not a Cub or Scout. That's why my memory fo what they wore is hazy.
  • Ah - your parents were probably afraid of the paramilitary aspects of the movement...
    :wink:

    Or maybe they just thought the uniforms were naff.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    "naff" is such a fine word.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    A 'toboggan' is a thing you slide down a hill on in the snow here. I've never heard the word used to mean anything else.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    A 'toboggan' is a thing you slide down a hill on in the snow here.
    That’s usually called a sled here.

    What to call the hat under discussion is often used as marker of regional word usage in the US. Toboggan is the term generally used in the Southern US.

  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Yes, they're also called 'sledges' here, but that's also used for anything that slides on runners rather than wheels, not just on snow but also mud. I'd assume 'sledge' and 'sled' are different versions of the same word. A 'sleigh' would be one that carries passengers over the snow and is pulled by horses - or in one case, of course, by reindeer.

  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    Sledge/sled is the common word where I am from. They were often used for carrying stuff across boggy ground.
  • This clarifies a few things. I have been much puzzled by the continued reference to beanies when it was clear that they were wearing touques. If only I had the energy to mount a Correct Nomenclature Campaign.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Mention of a “touque” here would be met with blank stares, except perhaps by those who moved here from Away. It’s not a word in our native vocabulary.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    Isn’t it ‘toques’?
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    PDR wrote: »
    Sledge/sled is the common word where I am from. They were often used for carrying stuff across boggy ground.

    I thought that (sledge, but not sled) was what fielding cricketers did when addressing the batspersons.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited March 30
    One use of it Zappa.

    Nick Tamen, I think the word you're after is toque. It's the sort of hat worn by Queen Mary (relict of George V), and of couse Miss Amanda
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Nick Tamen, I think the word you're after is toque. It's the sort of hat worn by Queen Mary (relict of George V), and of couse Miss Amanda
    I was responding to Augustine the Aleut, and I used the spelling he used, and was referring to the sense in which he used the word.

    Wikipedia tells me tells me that tuque (a French Canadian word adopted into Canadian English), touque or toque are the Canadian words and spellings for a knit cap. That article also says: “The word is also occasionally spelled touque. Although this is not considered a standard spelling by the Canadian Oxford Dictionary, some informal media polls have suggested that it is the preferred spelling by many Canadians.”

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Sorry, I'd missed AtA's post.

    That Wiki comment is none too reassuring, is it. "Some informal media polls" etc is scarcely reputable evidence.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited March 30
    Perhaps not, but as AtA is, I believe, Canadian, I see no reason to question his spelling of a Canadian term.

    But fwiw, the citation given for that statement is this CBC story: Thousands vote on correct spelling of Canadian knit cap.

    It strikes me as similar to polling North Carolinians as to whether we are Tar Heels or Tarheels.

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Sounds like most newspapers these days - the ability to publish much but not the inclination.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Just a thought on a very warm afternoon. The Orthodox have a toque-like headpiece, looks to be for very senior clergy. I can't think of anything similar in the Western church - or are my thoughts a bit addled by the heat? Don't know about the Orientals.
  • This thread is the first time that I've ever encountered "toboggan" as a hat. Wikipedia tells me that that usage is from 1929, a truncation of "toboggan hat". Ah, I thought, so that's how it comes about! I was initially flummoxed how bent wooden slats fixed together came to be head gear.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    painfully!
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Just a thought on a very warm afternoon. The Orthodox have a toque-like headpiece, looks to be for very senior clergy. I can't think of anything similar in the Western church - or are my thoughts a bit addled by the heat? Don't know about the Orientals.

    I believe it's called a skufta. My Orthie friends tell me it's worn by more rigorous types who like to look folksy-- they're quite common among Old Believers, so shipmates from northern Alberta might want to keep their eyes open.

    About the spelling of touque. Of course, I am correct, but I understand that some variations are about. I checked with two professional editors, as well as a former manager of mine who was in his time a departmental resource for correct English. They all agree on touque, although one of the editors thought that it might be a local usage.
  • cgichardcgichard Shipmate
    I believe it's called a skufta.
    Skufia

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thanks AtA for that information about the Orthodox usage (originally keyed in "tat information", probably appropriate).

    As to the spelling, I've never seen it as touque. I appreciate the impossibility of your being in error, but the spell check puts a red squiggly line under it as if it were, and keying it in on Google jumps straight to toque. Much further down the page there are entries for touque, with suggestions that it's a Canadian spelling.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Much further down the page there are entries for touque, with suggestions that it's a Canadian spelling.
    As I said upthread, it appears to be a purely Canadian term, at least when used to mean a knit cap—what we here would call a toboggan and what I’m given to understand from this thread is called a beanie in Australia. I’m baffled as to why anyone is arguing with a Canadian about how to spell a Canadian term.

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