Rossweisse
RIP Rossweisse, HellHost and long-time Shipmate.
Please see the thread in All Saints remembering her.

Hymn: The day thou gavest … ...

The words of this hymn just popped into my head on Wednesday - I don't know why! Perhaps it was something I heard on the radio, but I think it is more likely that I was sighing at the end of another day unable to get out. Yes, the sun has been shining and there is a quiet road just round the corner where I could venture out and manage to stay away from people, but it is so hard to cope with the sun and I have to concentrate so hard when going from a bright sunny area into contrasting dark shade, that it is better to march up and down my back room here for 15 minutes, timed by Alexa!

Be that as it may, I immediately went on to consider the words starting, surprise, surprise, :) with the first verse. I am not here to be confrontational, but to ask how you consider the words and the music. The music is in a major key, in 6/8 time, all of which fits a melody that goes sort of straight to an emotional response. It has a calming effect. However, the words I do, of course quibble with!

First line (using the words I was accustomed to when in the choir):
The day thou gavest, Lord, is ended

I doubt if anyone here actually takes that as factual, as we all know that scientists have the physics as right as far as is possible, so given by the Lord is metaphorical.

I'll stop there and wait for responses before continuing. I do hope this OP will be of interest.
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Comments

  • I take it to mean more the time, the blessings, the opportunities that - as Christians - we feel God has given us. And, in the time it was written when the mortality rate was so much higher than it is today, I think there is the sense that we have been "spared" for another period of time.
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    I take it to mean more the time, the blessings, the opportunities that - as Christians - we feel God has given us. And, in the time it was written when the mortality rate was so much higher than it is today, I think there is the sense that we have been "spared" for another period of time.
    Thank you - I did not think of looking for the date it was written. Perhaps one of the reasons why it came into my head was that my brain associated it with present circumstances. Looking again at all the words, I think your comment applies to all of them! Is it still sung much these days? Is it considered a bit too soothing and sentimental? It is of course running through my head … …!
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 27
    There is also the salutary reminder (to Christians) that prayer and praise are unceasing:

    As o'er each continent and island
    The dawn leads on another day,
    The voice of prayer is never silent,
    Nor dies the strain of praise away.

    The sun that bids us rest is waking
    Our brethren 'neath the western sky,
    And hour by hour fresh lips are making
    Thy wondrous doings heard on high.


    I think it is indeed still sung quite often these days - it's a good one for Evensong! - and IMHO it's not particularly sentimental, but, rather, encouraging.

    YMMV, of course.


  • I like it and have chosen it for evening services - though they are fairly rare these days. Better IMO than "Abide with me" (which I think is more appropriate for funerals) and less sentimental than "Day is dying in the West" which I haven't heard for years!
  • 'Abide with me' is an Abomination Unto The Lord, and should be consigned to the Fiery Furnace reserved for all such Tosh and Doggerel.

    Ahem.

    'The day thou gavest' was one of My Old Mum's favourite hymns, so when I hear (or sing) it, I think of her.
  • 'Abide with me' is an Abomination Unto The Lord, and should be consigned to the Fiery Furnace reserved for all such Tosh and Doggerel.
    Hmm ... not keen, then?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited March 27
    Your question, SusanDoris, seems more Purgatorial than Ecclesianticsal to me.

    SusanDoris wrote: »
    First line (using the words I was accustomed to when in the choir):
    The day thou gavest, Lord, is ended

    I doubt if anyone here actually takes that as factual, as we all know that scientists have the physics as right as far as is possible, so given by the Lord is metaphorical.
    I take it as factual that the Lord has given us the day, and I also fully accept what we know from physics. I fail to see how the two are the least bit at odds with one another.

  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    Thank you for those posts. :) Agreed re ‘Abide with me! ‘The day thou gavest’ is Definitely an Evensong only choice.
    There is also the salutary reminder (to Christians) that prayer and praise are unceasing:

    As o'er each continent and island
    The dawn leads on another day,
    The voice of prayer is never silent,
    Nor dies the strain of praise away.

    The sun that bids us rest is waking
    Our brethren 'neath the western sky,
    And hour by hour fresh lips are making
    Thy wondrous doings heard on high.


    I think it is indeed still sung quite often these days - it's a good one for Evensong! - and IMHO it's not particularly sentimental, but, rather, encouraging.

    YMMV, of course.
    It is of course geographically correct and, Bishop's Finger, I think you are right about the encouraging, although I'd substitute positive there - and that's another aspect I've never thought of before. And I wonder - can you give an example, do you think, of a wondrous doing’ that people would credit God with nowadays?
    I like it and have chosen it for evening services - though they are fairly rare these days. Better IMO than "Abide with me" (which I think is more appropriate for funerals) and less sentimental than "Day is dying in the West" which I haven't heard for years!
    Not liking discord in music or relationships, I like the harmony of the musicand the tempo.
    'The day thou gavest' was one of My Old Mum's favourite hymns, so when I hear (or sing) it, I think of her.
    Ah, well, that is probably because your old mum was, like me, a 1940s/50s girl!

    (Hope I’ve quoted correctly.)
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    I like that hymn and I agree completely with Nick Tamen. A religious hymn is surely a poem expressing one's faith and belief. For those who believe that there is a God who has created the universe and all things visible and invisible, there is no difficulty in saying 'the day thou gavest'. Since Susan Doris is not the author of the poem/hymn,she can,of course, express her opinion of the poem,but I am not sure if she can determine whether the author of the poem meant the words she objects to,to be metaphorical or not.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Yes, "I don't believe this term has a referent, therefore you are using it metaphorically" is a stretch.
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Your question, SusanDoris, seems more Purgatorial than Ecclesianticsal to me.

    SusanDoris wrote: »
    First line (using the words I was accustomed to when in the choir):
    The day thou gavest, Lord, is ended

    I doubt if anyone here actually takes that as factual, as we all know that scientists have the physics as right as far as is possible, so given by the Lord is metaphorical.
    I take it as factual that the Lord has given us the day, and I also fully accept what we know from physics. I fail to see how the two are the least bit at odds with one another.
    thank you for your comment. I did not put it in Purgatory, but asked (in Styx) about options and would rather it stayed here, if Hosts don't mind, because I'm not here to be confrontational in an atheistic way. I really am interested in harmonious opinions and views about the hymn and will be only minimally questioning.


    just veryi midly
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    I doubt if anyone here actually takes that as factual, as we all know that scientists have the physics as right as far as is possible, so given by the Lord is metaphorical.
    If that's not confrontational, I don't know what is.

  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    Forthview wrote: »
    I like that hymn and I agree completely with Nick Tamen. A religious hymn is surely a poem expressing one's faith and belief. For those who believe that there is a God who has created the universe and all things visible and invisible, there is no difficulty in saying 'the day thou gavest'. Since Susan Doris is not the author of the poem/hymn,she can,of course, express her opinion of the poem,but I am not sure if she can determine whether the author of the poem meant the words she objects to,to be metaphorical or not.
    Good point - so I have googled and this link is to information about the background to the hymn.
    Eutychus wrote: »
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    I doubt if anyone here actually takes that as factual, as we all know that scientists have the physics as right as far as is possible, so given by the Lord is metaphorical.
    If that's not confrontational, I don't know what is.
    My apologies - and I hope that my subsequent posts have shown that I'm only very mildly (sorryi about wrong esp just noticed) disagreeing. However, I leave it to you of course.

  • SusanDoris wrote: »
    Thank you for those posts. :) Agreed re ‘Abide with me! ‘The day thou gavest’ is Definitely an Evensong only choice.
    There is also the salutary reminder (to Christians) that prayer and praise are unceasing:

    As o'er each continent and island
    The dawn leads on another day,
    The voice of prayer is never silent,
    Nor dies the strain of praise away.

    The sun that bids us rest is waking
    Our brethren 'neath the western sky,
    And hour by hour fresh lips are making
    Thy wondrous doings heard on high.


    I think it is indeed still sung quite often these days - it's a good one for Evensong! - and IMHO it's not particularly sentimental, but, rather, encouraging.

    YMMV, of course.
    It is of course geographically correct and, Bishop's Finger, I think you are right about the encouraging, although I'd substitute positive there - and that's another aspect I've never thought of before. And I wonder - can you give an example, do you think, of a wondrous doing’ that people would credit God with nowadays?
    I like it and have chosen it for evening services - though they are fairly rare these days. Better IMO than "Abide with me" (which I think is more appropriate for funerals) and less sentimental than "Day is dying in the West" which I haven't heard for years!
    Not liking discord in music or relationships, I like the harmony of the musicand the tempo.
    'The day thou gavest' was one of My Old Mum's favourite hymns, so when I hear (or sing) it, I think of her.
    Ah, well, that is probably because your old mum was, like me, a 1940s/50s girl!

    (Hope I’ve quoted correctly.)

    Not exactly 40s/50s! Her dates are 1912-2004. In her Yoof she sang in her local village church choir, at Mattins, and at Evensong, every Sunday, and their Rector was a musical man. He later became Precentor at the Cathedral, and was a friend of the composer Elgar (My Old Mum remembered Elgar as a rather irascible elderly gent, who occasionally conducted their choir practice!).

  • PendragonPendragon Shipmate
    I must admit that I much prefer it to Abide with me but the rare evening services I frequent tend to stick to the office hymn.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    Am I right in thinking that The day thou gavest is sung at every service of the ( formerly Women’s) World Day of Prayer? The emphasis is on the world- wide, continuous nature of our faith, prayer and praise.
  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    Yes, that is when I have most often sung it.
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    Puzzler wrote: »
    Am I right in thinking that The day thou gavest is sung at every service of the ( formerly Women’s) World Day of Prayer? The emphasis is on the world- wide, continuous nature of our faith, prayer and praise.
    A quick google - and it seems to be an annuala event but I wonder why you use the word 'formerly'?

    I've been thinking a bit more about the music too and I wonder whether the lilting 6/8 rhythm makes it into something of a lullaby! Appropriate for evening, and perhaps that's another reason to hum the tune in these days of increasing concern over the virus.

    I have also googled 'original music' but it seems that Arthur Sullivan's is the only one offered. 'St Clement's is referred to but no success there. The use of 'thee' and 'thou' also softens the sound; 'you' just doesn't work in the same way.
  • TelfordTelford Shipmate
    'Abide with me' is an Abomination Unto The Lord, and should be consigned to the Fiery Furnace reserved for all such Tosh and Doggerel.

    Ahem.
    That very OTT
    'The day thou gavest' was one of My Old Mum's favourite hymns, so when I hear (or sing) it, I think of her.
    That very nice.

    It's a good tune and good lyrics.

  • SusanDoris wrote: »
    Puzzler wrote: »
    Am I right in thinking that The day thou gavest is sung at every service of the ( formerly Women’s) World Day of Prayer? The emphasis is on the world- wide, continuous nature of our faith, prayer and praise.
    A quick google - and it seems to be an annuala event but I wonder why you use the word 'formerly'?

    I've been thinking a bit more about the music too and I wonder whether the lilting 6/8 rhythm makes it into something of a lullaby! Appropriate for evening, and perhaps that's another reason to hum the tune in these days of increasing concern over the virus.

    I have also googled 'original music' but it seems that Arthur Sullivan's is the only one offered. 'St Clement's is referred to but no success there. The use of 'thee' and 'thou' also softens the sound; 'you' just doesn't work in the same way.

    The World Day of Prayer was formerly limited to participation by Christian women. In recent years it has been opened up to all Christians irrespective of gender.
  • I've never heard it sung to anything but "St Clement". The (potential) Sullivan connection is intriguing: http://tiny.cc/1is1lz and http://tiny.cc/ols1lz
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    I've never heard it sung to anything but "St Clement". The (potential) Sullivan connection is intriguing: http://tiny.cc/1is1lz and http://tiny.cc/ols1lz
    Thank you for the interesting links. It is certainly a good tune, whatever the proportions of input from Scolafield and Sullivan were!
  • I'm going to depart from the consensus and assert that, while I do like The day Thou gavest I also like Abide with me. Having attended few funerals I perhaps haven't had it ruined by over exposure.
  • SignallerSignaller Shipmate
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    I've been thinking a bit more about the music too and I wonder whether the lilting 6/8 rhythm makes it into something of a lullaby! Appropriate for evening, and perhaps that's another reason to hum the tune in these days of increasing concern over the virus.
    I used it very successfully as a lullaby, more than twenty years ago now.

  • Were the congregation all asleep by the end?
  • SignallerSignaller Shipmate
    Were the congregation all asleep by the end?

    One male infant, slumbering deeply- check...
  • BabyWombatBabyWombat Shipmate
    @SusanDoris : You ask if others "can you give an example... of a wondrous doing’ that people would credit God with nowadays?

    Well, IMHO, there's many: that I am here, alive and relatively healthy, even though death will come to me in someway at sometime; that the sun is shining right now and there are more goldfinches at the feeder than ports for them to get to the seed; that the pain in my leg after a minor fall last week is easing; that husband is doing the laundry I'd planned to do; Oh, I could go on and on. Others might credit all that to some force, some habit, some need. For me, it is a wondrous doing of God. No one else needs to agree or affirm, that is just my belief. My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my savior.

    I have a long standing practice that each morning, after using the loo, I splash water on my face -- cold water usually -- and with water dripping almost like a new baptism I look myself in the eyes in the mirror and say a simple "Thank God that I am, here, now."

  • Thanks @BabyWombat - amen!
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    Were the congregation all asleep by the end?

    When my children were small, I'd sing them the 'Andy Pandy's going to sleep' song! :)
  • When our son was small, I'd often be the one who read his bedtime story. More than once, my wife downstairs noticed the patter of footsteps as a head came through the door and announced, "Dad's gone to sleep - again".
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    BabyWombat wrote: »
    @SusanDoris : You ask if others "can you give an example... of a wondrous doing’ that people would credit God with nowadays?

    Well, IMHO, there's many: that I am here, alive and relatively healthy, even though death will come to me in someway at sometime; that the sun is shining right now and there are more goldfinches at the feeder than ports for them to get to the seed; that the pain in my leg after a minor fall last week is easing; that husband is doing the laundry I'd planned to do; Oh, I could go on and on. Others might credit all that to some force, some habit, some need. For me, it is a wondrous doing of God. No one else needs to agree or affirm, that is just my belief. My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my savior.

    I have a long standing practice that each morning, after using the loo, I splash water on my face -- cold water usually -- and with water dripping almost like a new baptism I look myself in the eyes in the mirror and say a simple "Thank God that I am, here, now."
    Thank you - nice post and very well put, I think.

  • BTW, the lilting tune St Clement is used in Our Place's default hymnbook for a rather lovely Advent hymn by Michael Foster (b 1946) 'Behold, the Saviour of the nations'.

    I won't provide a linky, on account of copyright, but we've used it at an Advent Sunday evening liturgy.
  • ZappaZappa Ecclesiantics Host
    'Abide with me' is an Abomination Unto The Lord, and should be consigned to the Fiery Furnace reserved for all such Tosh and Doggerel.
    Hmm ... not keen, then?

    For what it's worth DH Lawrence said the same thing ...
  • O well - I am clearly in Good Company™!
    :grin:
  • jay_emmjay_emm Shipmate
    edited March 28
    In "The Day Thou Gavest", the author is expecting another day. It is a goodnight, see you tomorrow, a natural Evensong hymn.
    Quite whether you take "The Day" as being the mechanical day, or the events in your day is kind of flexible, although "The darkness falls at thy behest", is mechanical (although the relatively modern author was almost certainly well aware of the direct mechanics, I wouldn't say metaphor, but not sure what I would say).

    In "Abide with me", the author isn't. It's not really an Evensong song, although the resonances obviously work better there. There the night is arguably a metaphor.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I'm going to depart from the consensus and assert that, while I do like The day Thou gavest I also like Abide with me. Having attended few funerals I perhaps haven't had it ruined by over exposure.
    I’ll depart from consensus too. I quite like “Abide with Me,” and prefer it to “The Day Thou Gavest.” I will also admit I don’t really like St Clement all that much.

    “Abide with Me” doesn’t seem to get used at funerals that often here, though I’ve made a mental note that my mother-in-law likes it would like it at her funeral.

  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    jay_emm wrote: »
    In "The Day Thou Gavest", the author is expecting another day. It is a goodnight, see you tomorrow, a natural Evensong hymn.
    Quite whether you take "The Day" as being the mechanical day, or the events in your day is kind of flexible, although "The darkness falls at thy behest", is mechanical (although the relatively modern author was almost certainly well aware of the direct mechanics, I wouldn't say metaphor, but not sure what I would say).

    In "Abide with me", the author isn't. It's not really an Evensong song, although the resonances obviously work better there. There the night is arguably a metaphor.
    Yes, and I have been thinking a little more about the date of the hymn's writing, 1870. Although there had been a move for some time towards a more scientific view of nature, it was only eleven years since Darwin's 'Origin of Species' so perhaps there was a perceived need to reinforce faith. but that is of course entirely speculation on my part.

  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    edited March 29
    Many years ago the church I grew up in had a very informal Evensong. The Vicar led the Service and also played the organ and the congregation requested hymns. One elderly woman whose memory was going always asked for "the Day Thou Gavest" and we always sang it. We sang it at her funeral too. I have always liked it, and now it reminds me of her, and the congregation always singing it without comment because we loved her.
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    A little more musing on a line in verse 2 and one in verse 5:
    "We thank thee that thy church, unsleeping'
    "and
    ""But stand and rule and grow for ever"

    This would have applied strongly in the 19th century and, really, still applied strongly when I was a child. That has changed, though, hasn't it? For instance, I think the automatic right of Bishops to sit in the HoL is well on the way out and wil become a fact. Whether or not it will happen before I die, I think it is right that this should be so. I think too, though, that it should be done in an orderly, quiet, undramatic way and would express concern if it was achieved with anger instead of as an inevitability. (I was going to say, 'with logic', but am aware that there are those on SoF with a knowledge of Philosophy that I do not have!) .
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    I think the line about the church unsleeping is simply a reflection that by the time the hymn was written the Church, in different forms, had a presence all around the globe. The theme carries on through verse three and into verse four with ‘The sun that bids us rest is waking our brethren 'neath the western sky’.

    The original line about God’s kingdom in the last verse is ‘thy kingdom stands, and grows for ever’ but even in the modernised version it is nothing at all to do with bishops in the House of Lords, nor even directly the Church - it is about the growth of God’s rule in the world. That seems to me to be a wholly different thing from the question of whose hands may or may not be on the levers of power.
  • I've always felt that this is really a hymn about the success of world mission and the growth of the Church in all nations. After all, when it was written there were still vast parts of the world which, as far as Britain was concerned, were "undiscovered" and "lying in heathen darkness". Of course one might argue that the missionary movement was inextricably tied in the colonialist expansion and there's more than a glimmer of truth in that (although missionaries were often a thorn in colonial administrators' sides as they championed the rights of indigenous people). This was a supremely confident era in Britain, the age when many believed David Livingstone's mantra of "Commerce, civilisation and Christianity". We see that as mistaken today - yet the idea of "the Church unsleeping" is far more true in our time than that of the author, indeed the Church's epicentre has shifted from Europe and America to the global South.
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    BroJames wrote: »
    I think the line about the church unsleeping is simply a reflection that by the time the hymn was written the Church, in different forms, had a presence all around the globe. The theme carries on through verse three and into verse four with ‘The sun that bids us rest is waking our brethren 'neath the western sky’.

    The original line about God’s kingdom in the last verse is ‘thy kingdom stands, and grows for ever’ but even in the modernised version it is nothing at all to do with bishops in the House of Lords, nor even directly the Church - it is about the growth of God’s rule in the world. That seems to me to be a wholly different thing from the question of whose hands may or may not be on the levers of power.
    May I ask how you would describe 'God's rule' I n today's world? There was, in the 19th century a confidence in the British way of things which more or less implied God's way, didn't it? And the voices of challenge were not widely heard. It seems to have been WWI more than anything which opened the gap somewhat wider.
    While the hymn remains, as, yes, pleasant background music in my head at the moment, I have attempted to update the words! But that is a task I simply cannot do!
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    I've always felt that this is really a hymn about the success of world mission and the growth of the Church in all nations. After all, when it was written there were still vast parts of the world which, as far as Britain was concerned, were "undiscovered" and "lying in heathen darkness". Of course one might argue that the missionary movement was inextricably tied in the colonialist expansion and there's more than a glimmer of truth in that (although missionaries were often a thorn in colonial administrators' sides as they championed the rights of indigenous people). This was a supremely confident era in Britain, the age when many believed David Livingstone's mantra of "Commerce, civilisation and Christianity". We see that as mistaken today - yet the idea of "the Church unsleeping" is far more true in our time than that of the author, indeed the Church's epicentre has shifted from Europe and America to the global South.
    Not quite sure what you mean by 'the global south'- Could you elaborate a bit, please? are you referring to South America for instance? I think I understand the general feeling that much of the cooler parts of the northern hemisphere are tending to become less religiously centred.

  • Yes: Latin America, sub-Saharan Africa, India, Korea etc.
  • The last verse gives the impression that "earth's proud empires" will "never .... pass away" which might imply an endorsement of the imperialist project. But in my view the writer means precisely the opposite: that all human empires will fail but, in contrast, God's will grow and stand for ever.
  • DrSLDrSL Shipmate Posts: 5
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    The music is in a major key, in 6/8 time, all of which fits a melody that goes sort of straight to an emotional response.

    The music is in a Major key, depending on which tune you use. The tune St. Clement, possibly the most popular of tunes set to these words, is in a Major Key but is in 3/4 time not 6/8 - and they are not the same thing!!!

    However, in the 1906 version of English Hymnal and those re-prints in 1933 and 1976 'The day thou gavest' is set to the tune Les Commandemens De Dieu a tune originating in a Genevan Psalter of 1543 and possibly composed but certainly adapted by Bourgeois. St Clement is to be found in the Appendix (No. 16) named by Vaughan Williams as his 'Chamber of Horrors'. Les Commandemens De Dieu is in a Major key but alternates between 3 time and 4 time. By the time the 1984 'New English Hymnal' appears St Clement has taken over from Les Commandemens De Dieu which is used to a setting of words by F. Bland Tucker.

  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    DrSL wrote: »
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    The music is in a major key, in 6/8 time, all of which fits a melody that goes sort of straight to an emotional response.

    The music is in a Major key, depending on which tune you use. The tune St. Clement, possibly the most popular of tunes set to these words, is in a Major Key but is in 3/4 time not 6/8 - and they are not the same thing!!!
    Thank you - I didn't realise. When humming it, I automatically went into 6/8 mode! (when I could see, I played the piano.) Since reading your post, I have been trying to think of it in 3/4 time and just can't do it!! That means it starts on the third beat, which makes beat 1 of the next bar on 'day' and the first of the next bar on 'ga... I think it makes it sound rather 'heavy'. I'll listen to a couple of you tubes and see how they sound regarding the defining of the beats.
    However, in the 1906 version of English Hymnal and those re-prints in 1933 and 1976 'The day thou gavest' is set to the tune Les Commandemens De Dieu a tune originating in a Genevan Psalter of 1543 and possibly composed but certainly adapted by Bourgeois. St Clement is to be found in the Appendix (No. 16) named by Vaughan Williams as his 'Chamber of Horrors'. Les Commandemens De Dieu is in a Major key but alternates between 3 time and 4 time. By the time the 1984 'New English Hymnal' appears St Clement has taken over from Les Commandemens De Dieu which is used to a setting of words by F. Bland Tucker.
    Thank you. I'll spend some time (plenty of that at the moment, I'm afraid!) following up those names this afternoon.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    That's a bit weird. I've never heard of the tune Les Commandemens (sic) De Dieu before, and Commandemens does appear to be the spelling of its name. I've looked it up in Hymnary.org - and it's still unfamiliar, and rather less memorable than most Bourgeois tunes. However, playing the sample there, it appears to be in LM, 8 8 8 8, whereas The day thou gavest and St Clement are both 9 8 9 8. To make Les Commandemens fit, it would need extra notes - though that's not difficult to do and some of the other samples in Hymnary.org are more flexible as to rhythm.

    The title might suggest it was original the tune for the Genevan version, in French, of the 10 Commandments. Does anyone know?


    I agree with those Shipmates who think @SusanDoris is finding political and imperial resonances that aren't in the original. Earth's proud empires are clearly seen as passing away and whatever one might think about House of Lords reform, it's a red herring as far as The day thou gavest is concerned.

  • Enoch wrote: »
    However, playing the sample there, it appears to be in LM, 8 8 8 8, whereas The day thou gavest and St Clement are both 9 8 9 8. To make Les Commandemens fit, it would need extra notes -

    A printed score ( https://hymnary.org/tune/wenn_wir_in_hochsten_noten_bourgeois ) shows it as 9 8 9 8.
  • SusanDorisSusanDoris Shipmate
    Enoch wrote: »
    I agree with those Shipmates who think @SusanDoris is finding political and imperial resonances that aren't in the original. Earth's proud empires are clearly seen as passing away and whatever one might think about House of Lords reform, it's a red herring as far as The day thou gavest is concerned.
    the main reason I did not put this in Purgatory was that I had no intention of being challenging. Yes, I said I might be mildly so, but in fact the first response made me think again because of the times, the later 1800s, when it was composed. My initial thoughts had been to wonder about how posters here, if they did ponder on the words, might have found them to be not relevant today. Evidently that is not so, and since most of the words are factually correct, I have been singing it through in my head without wincing even slightly at the Lord's part in it. :) I wish I could play the piano still (it's no good - I need written music, as I could never just play by ear) and sing in choirs the way I did long ago. When my voice was younger, I sang madrigals, and was in the chorus of several musicals performed at the Bournemouth Pavilion, but for all sorts of reasons those activities ended too.
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