Sport and Abortion

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Comments

  • There are organisations out there claiming to advocate for autistic folk (Autism Speaks is the most notorious) which spend much of their funds on research to detect autism in the womb so we can be aborted.

    This is a fair point, but I think it belongs to the other thread. This discussion is about how having children (or not having children) interacts with the success and career of sportswomen. I think any interaction between this and the discussion of aborting foetuses with particular disabilities etc. is second order at best.
  • GwaiGwai Epiphanies Host
    There are organisations out there claiming to advocate for autistic folk (Autism Speaks is the most notorious) which spend much of their funds on research to detect autism in the womb so we can be aborted.

    This is a fair point, but I think it belongs to the other thread. This discussion is about how having children (or not having children) interacts with the success and career of sportswomen. I think any interaction between this and the discussion of aborting foetuses with particular disabilities etc. is second order at best.
    From an organizational and thus hostly note, I second that this should have a different thread. Though I note that I know autistic people who would say they have a disability and ones who would say they don't (or that their only disability is that society doesn't accept them.) If you think the situation is significantly different from what is being discussed in the abortion and disability thread, feel free to start a new thread too.
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    I’m not sure about that @Barnabas62

    Respect doesn’t mean agreement. I can respect both you and your views while completely disagreeing with you.

    “ ... posting with respect for the views and opinions of women can help to create a more welcoming environment for more reticent women contributors.” sounds just a touch patronising to me. ‘Bless her, she can’t cope with robust debate, we should be careful how we speak to her.’

    I’m sure that’s not how you intended it, but it does rather come over that way.
    Try posting on a gamer forum openly as a woman. It doesn't matter how well one makes one's points, how good an offence and defence one has, it can be overwhelming. I read B62 as "Let's not let SOF be the shitfest those places are."

    If this is an issue you have yourself I'd certainly recommend RPGnet, despite the name it covers a wide variety of games and has a strong anti-sexism policy.
    Thank you for the tip!
    My point, though, is that moderation isn't patronising, but levelling the playing field.
  • I would like to ask a host to consider breaking off the discussion of men posting on a thread about women's topics (however defined) into its own thread, as it is a meta-conversation to the actual conversation here about women athletes and abortion, and yet is worth pursuing in its own right.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    edited August 2020
    Boogie wrote: »
    I’m not sure about that @Barnabas62

    Respect doesn’t mean agreement. I can respect both you and your views while completely disagreeing with you.

    “ ... posting with respect for the views and opinions of women can help to create a more welcoming environment for more reticent women contributors.” sounds just a touch patronising to me. ‘Bless her, she can’t cope with robust debate, we should be careful how we speak to her.’

    I’m sure that’s not how you intended it, but it does rather come over that way.

    Not sure if I can win, Boogie! That wasn't what I intended. But I suppose what shows sensitivity towards the reticent can come across as patronising to the bold. I guess you might just have to trust my intentions as honourable. (And there we go again. Old fashioned honourable can easily be misread as patronising).

    A propos nothing at all. A few years ago (when I was just 70) I offered my seat on a crowded bus to a heavily pregnant woman carrying a lot of shopping. She looked down her nose at me and observed in a very clear, carrying, voice that I looked as though I needed it more than she did. I don't think I was being sexist but I am completely convinced she was being ageist. Anyway I sat down red faced.

  • @mousethief Your request is not anything to do with what I posted, is it?

    Coz if so, that would be a dreadful shame
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Hosts are giving the request some thought. Give us some time.

    Barnabas62
    Epiphanies Host
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Ethne Alba wrote: »
    @mousethief Your request is not anything to do with what I posted, is it?

    Coz if so, that would be a dreadful shame

    The point was to separate the two discussions. I think the tangent of "men dominating a discussion about women's issues" is worth talking about, but not at the expense of "women athletes being penalized or denigrated for choosing career+abortion over motherhood+losing career". Both are discussions worth having, but need to take place on separate threads (in my opinion). I don't see how that's a shame.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    A propos nothing at all. A few years ago (when I was just 70) I offered my seat on a crowded bus to a heavily pregnant woman carrying a lot of shopping. She looked down her nose at me and observed in a very clear, carrying, voice that I looked as though I needed it more than she did. I don't think I was being sexist but I am completely convinced she was being ageist. Anyway I sat down red faced.

    I'd have remained standing.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Trouble was my initial reaction was to think the fault was mine. I’d offered an insulting gift. My wife wasn’t with me and we talked a lot about it when I got home. Weird experience.
  • @mousethief cheers

    And @Barnabas62 apologies
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Thanks for the apology, Ethne Alba, but there was no need. I thought your post and mousethief's response helped clarify things. We're looking at mousethief's point as he has expanded and clarified it and will get back in due course. It is an interesting and important point and we want to get our response right.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    FWIW @Barnabas62 the Parisian transport authority has a clear list of priority for a seat on the bus, and pregnant women are higher up than able bodied older people. It's about who's most at risk of injury if they fall over.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Sounds rational. Nice to have a sensible rule to apply.
  • The problem with standing up for a pregnant woman, is if you have misidentified someone who is overweight as pregnant they are highly likely to be offended.
  • The problem with standing up for a pregnant woman, is if you have misidentified someone who is overweight as pregnant they are highly likely to be offended.

    If only real life had the ship's first commandment.
  • "Would you like a seat?" works for me. You don't need to specify why you're offering your seat.

    Every now and then, someone will offer me a seat - I'm in super shape but I have lots of grey hair. I always accept because nice people deserve to feel good about themselves.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Telling the difference is pretty obvious in most cases. As it was in mine. But it’s a fair general point.
  • Every now and then, someone will offer me a seat - I'm in super shape but I have lots of grey hair. I always accept because nice people deserve to feel good about themselves.

    When I was hobbling around on crutches a few years ago, I got offered a seat on a regular basis. I didn't actually want a seat, because it was hard to bend my knees into a seat-occupying shape. I was happier propping myself in a corner. But sometimes, people just don't believe "no, really, I'm happier here, thank you."
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    "Would you like a seat?" works for me. You don't need to specify why you're offering your seat.

    Every now and then, someone will offer me a seat - I'm in super shape but I have lots of grey hair. I always accept because nice people deserve to feel good about themselves.

    Me too now! And mostly I need it. I'm not in such super shape as I was at 70. These days if a pregnant woman offers me a seat I'll just be grateful and accept.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    And sorry for the tangent. This thread is about more important stuff.
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