In Vino Veritas - the WINE thread, what you enjoy, current drinking, tastes, recommendations

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  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    A fair few of the sales would be to those going to the local and unlicensed Thai.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Tyrrell Elizabeth Semillon needs to be aged, as when young it is harsh on the palate. From about 8 years it develops a complexity and richness which makes it a most satisfying drink.

    Tyrell's Semillons are very, very good. The same can be said for Hunter Semillons generally (but I can't think of Tyrell's Elizabeth Semillon, Mt Pleasant yes, Tyrell's no). All need a fair bit of bottle age.

    Mea culpa! That's what comes of typing a reply while chatting to friends. Tyrrell's mid-range Semillon is the Stevens, HVD or Belford, all individual vineyards so likely candidates for the M & S range.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Tyrrell Elizabeth Semillon needs to be aged, as when young it is harsh on the palate. From about 8 years it develops a complexity and richness which makes it a most satisfying drink.

    Tyrell's Semillons are very, very good. The same can be said for Hunter Semillons generally (but I can't think of Tyrell's Elizabeth Semillon, Mt Pleasant yes, Tyrell's no). All need a fair bit of bottle age.

    Mea culpa! That's what comes of typing a reply while chatting to friends. Tyrrell's mid-range Semillon is the Stevens, HVD or Belford, all individual vineyards so likely candidates for the M & S range.

    While consuming some Semillon perhaps? And it's worthwhile remembering that a mid-range wine from any of the Hunter vignerons will give you an excellent glass at a very reasonable price.

  • We enjoyed last night some excellent Portuguese Dao from Chateau Lidl.
  • Very nice Chablis with our Easter Day shrimp pasta - Domaine Charly-Nicolle for any Ontario shipmates wanting to look for it at their local LCBO. On the riper side as Chablis goes (from the warm 2018 vintage) but none the worse for it IMO.

  • My taste runs to the more austere side in Chablis, especially for shellfish, but I'll give it a shot on your recommendation.
  • My taste runs to the more austere side in Chablis, especially for shellfish.
    Mine too - slatey-dry.

  • My taste runs to the more austere side in Chablis, especially for shellfish, but I'll give it a shot on your recommendation.

    It’s got more fruit than most Chablis in its price range, so if you really want austere you might be better off elsewhere. It’s a bit of a splurge, Chablis prices being what they are, and I wouldn’t want to send you down the garden path.

    That said Ms. Marsupial is the rocks and stones addict in our house when it comes to white wines and she really enjoyed it.

  • I think that's down the vineyard path.... even a blind alley usually renders a good story. "The worst wine I've ever had!" Now, there's a line of conversation.
  • BTW at the moment Lidl are doing a good Alsatian Pinot Blanc (Jean Cornelius) which we have enjoyed. Our favourite Alsace wine is Sylvaner but it's not easy to get in the UK.
  • I think that's down the vineyard path.... even a blind alley usually renders a good story. "The worst wine I've ever had!" Now, there's a line of conversation.

    There’s a whole thread in “Wines I thought I would like but ended up hating.” I discovered after an unfortunate Barbaresco experience that Ms. Marsupial really does not like Nebbiolo, something that has since been confirmed through further exposure to other examples. All tannin and acid and no pleasure as far as she is concerned.

    An occasional blind spot for me is oaked whites with malolactic fermentation - supposedly well-made wines from reputable producers that somehow ended up smelling to me like nothing but buttered popcorn. Not obvious oak bombs either.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Very nice Puglian primitivo with dinner - which was aubergines stuffed with spiced lamb mince. There aren't actually all that many other dishes could have taken on its combination of rich fruit and tannins.
  • Primitivo/zinfandel and Alentejo reds are my guilty pleasures when it comes to wines.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    Very nice Puglian primitivo with dinner - which was aubergines stuffed with spiced lamb mince. There aren't actually all that many other dishes could have taken on its combination of rich fruit and tannins.

    That sounds like perfection. What was the wine, specifically, and could you post the recipe, please?

    Puglia has really pulled itself up. I no longer put on my sunglasses and fake moustache when buying its wines.

    I was at a Portuguese restaurant (Chiado, in Toronto), and put myself in the hands of Carlos, the waiter, regarding the wine pairing. I was having espada with a beet risotto, and he suggested an Alentejano red. Defined, but subtle fruits, muted tannins, mid-weight. Brilliant match.

  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Firenze wrote: »
    Very nice Puglian primitivo with dinner - which was aubergines stuffed with spiced lamb mince. There aren't actually all that many other dishes could have taken on its combination of rich fruit and tannins.

    That sounds like perfection. What was the wine, specifically, and could you post the recipe, please?

    The wine is better than its label.

    The recipe was more or less this (I left out the red pepper).
  • I was at a Portuguese restaurant (Chiado, in Toronto), and put myself in the hands of Carlos, the waiter, regarding the wine pairing. I was having espada with a beet risotto, and he suggested an Alentejano red. Defined, but subtle fruits, muted tannins, mid-weight. Brilliant match.
    I'm sure it was. I particularly like the Reserva wines from the Adega de Borba and Reguengos de Monsarraz.

  • We are on a short break in the national capital. Last night's wine was Sandpiper Riesling from Thorn Clarke in SA's Eden Valley. Citrus nose, citrus to mineral palate went well with a very tasty Chinese meal.

    Italian tonight - scaloppine - accompanied by an Ilico Montepulciano. This disappointed somewhat; thinner on the palate than I expected. The Calabria Bros from our Riverina produce a nicer version.
  • Last evening we tried a Middle Eastern restaurant for the first time. My meal was a crisp skin barramundi fillet on saffron rice with a chilli and coriander sauce topped with roasted flaked almonds.
    To accompany we chose a 2019 rose-style pinot gris from the Eden Road winery in the cool-climate region of Murrumbateman just outside Canberra. Fresh fruit elements on the palate, delicate colour in the glass it suited both the fish the saffron-poached pear I had for dessert.
  • @Barnabas_Aus Having never been to Australia, I've never had barramundi. What would be the next closest fish?
  • Probably sea bass
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Marsupial wrote: »
    Very nice Chablis with our Easter Day shrimp pasta ...
    As recipes have been mentioned, would you mind posting your pasta recipe? :)
  • It’s a bit hit-and-miss, and I’m still trying to get the timings right, but the basic idea is quite a lot of olive oil, a bit of butter, and sliced garlic in which the shrimp are quickly sautéed, and then add chopped Italian parsley and a squirt of lemon juice. Then add the pasta to the sauce and toss. I seasoned the shrimp last time with a bit of tarragon before putting them in the pan.

    If you have a hot sauté pan ready (heated on medium heat) this all happens within about the last two minutes before you serve the pasta. I think I’ve also seen versions where the oils and garlic are gradually heated before adding the shrimp. The timings are key, because otherwise you end up burning the oil/garlic, overcooking the shrimp and/or pasta, or possibly all of the above. So I’ve found it easiest to have a hot pan ready and do everything in literally about the last 2 minutes before the pasta is ready.

    We had a nice marinated pork loin (rosemary balsamic from our local butcher) with a Pinot Noir by the Alsatian producer J.M. Sohler yesterday. The first time I remember tasting an Alsatian PN, and really quite lovely. Good cherry fruit and characteristic woodsy/earthy Pinot flavours. It felt not unlike good Ontario Pinot though I don’t know whether I would have actually thought the same thing if I’d had a bottle open for comparison purposes.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited April 2021
    That sounds lovely though I tend to think of Alsatian wines as whites. This was pleasant though a surprise when I opened it: https://www.lidl.co.uk/en/p/red-wine/pinot-noir-jean-cornelius/p25888
  • We split a mixed case of Alsatian wines with a friend a while back (conveniently, 2 bottles each of six wines) and there wasn't a red to be found. I found some of the wines a bit meh but we were really impressed with the Cremant. Now that I look it up I see it was also a Sohler wine.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Thanks for the recipe, @Marsupial - I'll definitely be giving that a go.

    memo to self: buy prawns ...
  • Hope it works out. We like seafood but I find that getting everything to cook as expected is surprisingly complicated.

    We ordered in Greek takeout this evening after a long day and opened a 2016 bottle of this:

    https://kiryianni.gr/wines/ktima-kir-yianni-red/

    Very nice. Sort of French, but with a Greek accent.

  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    Our primeurs have arrived - in honour of the year of Captain Pyjamas' birth (2018), three bottles of Château Pape Clément and one of Madame de Longueville Pauillac. They are headed for the cellar and will reappear for his eighteenth birthday/university diploma/first job and such.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Lucky little boy.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Friends who had participated in this tasting of wines from the DuMol winery kindly shared the (substantial) leftovers with us. All superb (though I though the Chardonnay was over-alcholised). Difficult to chose among the reds, but the Pinot Noir and Cab Sauv were outstanding.
  • Nice. We spent a bit of time in the Russian River valley when we were visiting friends in the Bay Area about 15 years ago. It’s quite beautiful, especially near the Coast. We visited a few wineries - the one I remember is Iron Horse which seems to have a similar profile.
  • MarsupialMarsupial Shipmate
    edited April 2021
    Marsupial wrote: »
    Radford Dale makes a Syrah-Cinsaut in Stellenbosch that sounds a lot like the wines that MaryLouise is describing. The Ontario importer Nicholas Pearce has somehow convinced RD to let them bring in both this and a Chenin under his own label (Pearce Predhomme).

    In case any Ontario shipmates are interested, Vintages has brought a Radford Dale Chenin in under their (i.e., RD's) own label. (It's their basic "Vinum" Chenin.) It's better than the Pearce Predhomme version, I think, and cheaper.

  • Ah, thank you on the heads up. This question just occurred to me: Does anyone market Chenin Blanc as "Steen" anymore?
  • I don’t think I’ve ever seen it under that name in Ontario.
  • I think that in Ontario I last saw it in the 1990s. In SA it was it was passing out of favour in the 2000s. I was curious as to whether there might be some Old School hold outs. Where's @Mary Louise?
  • Going to try paging @MaryLouise again because I’m not sure that last page went where you expected it to.

    I was prompted to poke around on Google a bit and there seem to be a few Steens out there still but doesn’t seem very prominent. Curiously apparently it’s an Dutch corruption of Listan, of Canary Islands fame, which presumably they mistakenly thought it was.

    (I didn’t know, until I just looked it up, that white Listan is actually Palomino from Andalucia. Listan Negro is indigenous to the islands apparently.)
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    Here I am, sorry to have missed the earlier mentions. My knowhow on South African wines isn't that extensive and I hardly ever get to try wines from elsewhere in the New World, let alone French or German wines, so I'm definitely not a final authority! I'd love to be able to sit down and taste some good local Chenin blancs next to Chenin blancs from Vouvray or other Loire appellations, but that isn't going to happen any time soon.

    Both Chenin blancs (marketed for many years as Steen) and Pinotages are often seen in the Cape as old-style wines with vines and bush vines planted in the early 1940s (there's growing appreciation worldwide for Old Vines wines). In recent years many wine buyers preferred the grassy dry Sauvignon blancs but Chenin blancs are still popular from certain estates.

    @Marsupial, I had a look at the Chenin Blanc Association booklet published in the Cape because I thought Steen was of Dutch or German origin. Not so.

    To recap and sorry if you all know this already, Chenin Blanc was established in the Anjou region of France as long ago as the ninth century and known then as Chenere. The variety was renamed Chenin Blanc, after Mont Chenin, in the 15th century soon after being exported to the Touraine region in the Loire Valley.

    Chenin Blanc also has a long and interesting history in South Africa and is believed to be amongst the first vine cuttings that arrived here in 1655 during the time of Governor Jan van Riebeeck. Early documents refer to three varieties: Groendruif (Semillon), Fransdruif and Steen. It seems that the origin of the names Fransdruif (also called Listan) and Steen are intertwined. There is a theory that the name 'Steen' developed, when the Dutch who settled in the Cape decoded 'Listan' to 'La Stan', then 'De Steen' and finally, 'Steen'.

    This isn't as conclusive as it sounds. Chenin is believed to have originated around 500 years ago as the offspring of two French white grapes, Savagnin and Sauvignonasse.

    Early opinion had it that Steen was of Germanic origin, supported by the evidence of a handwritten note by Governor Simon van der Stel claiming that wine made from Steen was comparable to quality German Stein wines. This saw the introduction of the Germanic spelling 'Stein'. After an extensive, but unsuccessful, Germanic and eastward search for the origin of Steen, the variety Franche (from which Fransdruif might originally have taken its name) provided the answer. This variety was also apparently known by the French, as Chenin blanc, and approximately 30 other names. Steen and Chenin blanc are now considered synonymous, though the term Steen or Stein is hardly ever used now. The wine writer Tim James has said that a good history of Chenin blanc still needs to be written.

    For a long time through the 1960s, a sweetish Lieberstein (Steen and Clairette blanche) was one of South Africa's most popular exports.

    I didn't touch Steen or Chenin blancs for years (too sweet, too oaky), then in the 1990s came across Irina von Holdt's Blue White Chenin blanc in a startlingly blue bottle, a delicate serious wine. Friends have recommended the Anchorman Chenin Blanc from Nederburg (2020), as well as varietals from the Swartland.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    We have been enjoying Picpoul de Pinet from Sainsburys.
  • Thanks @MaryLouise . I’ll look out for the wines you mention if they make their way into Ontario.
  • @MaryLouise - Apologies, I introduced an unwelcome space in your name. Thank you for detailed response!
  • I did wonder if you’d managed to page the BVM to give us her views on wine. :smile: Sadly, even if she had shown up, she probably wouldn’t have much to say about Chenin... and I worry that her favourite bottle might be something like Liebfraumilch.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Purgatory Host, Epiphanies Host
    Marsupial wrote: »
    I did wonder if you’d managed to page the BVM to give us her views on wine. :smile: Sadly, even if she had shown up, she probably wouldn’t have much to say about Chenin... and I worry that her favourite bottle might be something like Liebfraumilch.

    Infamous Blue Nun?
  • That was actually came up first when I googled it. :smile:
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Marsupial wrote: »
    I did wonder if you’d managed to page the BVM to give us her views on wine. :smile: Sadly, even if she had shown up, she probably wouldn’t have much to say about Chenin... and I worry that her favourite bottle might be something like Liebfraumilch.

    That takes me back more than 50 years - I bought a bottle, but the effect was that the young lady drank so much she became ill and had to be taken home.
  • Ah yes, the dreaded Blue Nun...
  • It's not quite the same these days. I believe ...

    Someone upthread mentioned Picpoul de Pinet. I first had it about 20 years ago when my newspaper was running a "meal for £5" offer and we had lunch at a local restaurant run by the brother of Cameron Mackintosh, the theatre impresario. I had a glass of Picpoul and have liked it ever since, in fact I have a bottle in the cupboard (from Chateau Lidl, who do some interesting wines at times).
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    For those of us given to buying from German supermarkets, Aldi's latest champagne is Nicholas de Montbart - c £11. Light, citrussy, went well with the classic French Veal with Mushrooms.
  • MarsupialMarsupial Shipmate
    And in other news, the Avondale Jonty’s Ducks red blend is back in Ontario stores. Smokier than I remember (very South African in that respect), but still a great wine for your $16.95.
  • JuanaCruzJuanaCruz Shipmate
    Thought I'd better pop in ...

    The Lidl Australian Clare Valley Riesling *2019* is a lovely summer drop with all the kind of lime and sherbert flavours you'd like and decent length.

    The 2017 was nice but short (young-vines?) and the 2018 forgettable but this is perfect for this kind of weather ... drink by the bottle or caseload.

  • MarsupialMarsupial Shipmate
    edited June 2021
    Good stuff. A long day, an unanticipated pizza order, and a household shortage of cheap pizza wine led us to open a bottle of Terredora Aglianico from Campania (IGT Campania) this evening. More than is really needed for weekday pizza, but very tasty.
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