The Untied Kingdom? - the British thread 2021

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  • My wife is finding quite difficult, especially prepositions and mutations.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited March 2
    My wife is finding quite difficult, especially prepositions and mutations.

    Prepositions don't map easily from one language to another. I still can't quite get a feel for what wrth means.

    Them having personal forms - arnoch hi, iddyn nhw, ganddi hi and so on's a bit of a pain.

    Mutations have never bothered me much. Cymru, i Gymru, yng Nghymru, meh...

    It's not the easiest language for English speakers but there are harder ones - anything Slavic, Greek, Irish...
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    I’m slogging through my German lessons.

    Pronunciation - excellent
    Vocabulary - improving
    Grammar - good on verbs, hopeless on articles

    I shall always struggle with articles and the dative case - so I will never sound fluent, but I can make myself understood (just). I’m good at understanding conversations when the context is clear.
  • SandemaniacSandemaniac Shipmate
    I remember an article in New Scientist claiming that the best way to sound fluent in any language was to learn the appropriate noise to make when you cannot find a word - so Err and Um for English, I'd guess Ach for German.... Supposedly it makes listeners think you are far more fluent than you are, presumably because you no longer sound like a English speaker desperately hunting a word.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    The biggest hing I found that helped, was learning most European languages are not stresstimes like English and many have less vowel sound variation.

    Magazine immediately sounds more French if you give equal weight to all the syllables, that and realise it’s a as in cat not cart.
  • The biggest hing I found that helped, was learning most European languages are not stresstimes like English and many have less vowel sound variation.

    Magazine immediately sounds more French if you give equal weight to all the syllables, that and realise it’s a as in cat not cart.

    Wait. Who pronounces magazine with the a as in cart?!
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited March 2
    Second a - but in English (being stress timed) we scud straight over barely vocalising it.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I'm having what I hope will be a bit of a treat for supper; as I forgot to take anything out of the freezer (and I needed to get orange juice anyway), I went into M&S and got ready-to-cook duck with port and orange sauce, which is in the oven, and will have potatoes, broccoli and green beans for company.

    And a glass of Malbec, obviously. 🍷

    I'm hoping it's a treat, as there's another duck leg, which will be frozen for future consumption.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    We’ve cracked open the Prosecco!

    My son has just had the wonderful news that he’s got a mortgage. He’s been trying for nine months but as he’s in an insecure job (he’s a pilot!) he just met brick walls all the time. Due to divorce and stuff he was this / / close to losing his house last week. Then, at the last minute, he secured a mortgage today.

    I can’t tell you how happy and relieved I am. Cheers! 🥂
  • well done Boogie Jr.

    A study day today on qualitative analysis. Mr Heavenly is currently making some breaded homemade burgers (new air fryer) with butternut squash and rice.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    I've a nasty feeling that the translation site I used to write happy birthday in Welsh to my Welsh nephew in law for today, plus a late happy St David's for yesterday got it wrong.
  • We had our St David's Day meal last night. The lamb was lovely but we won't be buying the red Welsh wine again. (Mind you, we shall still finish the bottle!)
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Penny S wrote: »
    I've a nasty feeling that the translation site I used to write happy birthday in Welsh to my Welsh nephew in law for today, plus a late happy St David's for yesterday got it wrong.

    Penblwydd hapus, a Dydd Gwyl Dewi hapus hwyr i ddoe is what I'd say. But that might be a bit too calqued on English.

  • PriscillaPriscilla Shipmate
    I’ll try and remember to ask my twtor about the “for yesterday “ as I have my online dosbarth (lesson) tomorrow.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited March 2
    I did not write for yesterday, so that doesn't need translation. Bits of what I found look right, but not the whole thing. And I should really have spotted if I wrote Dewi. He's not got back yet.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Priscilla wrote: »
    I’ll try and remember to ask my twtor about the “for yesterday “ as I have my online dosbarth (lesson) tomorrow.

    I'm wondering if 'am ddoe' is better than 'i ddoe'. It's always these idiomatic expressions which are the bear traps.
  • Penny S wrote: »
    I've a nasty feeling that the translation site I used to write happy birthday in Welsh to my Welsh nephew in law for today, plus a late happy St David's for yesterday got it wrong.
    I bought my wife a card from W+itr+se, with a Welsh greeting. The 'greeting' seemed odd to her, she thinks the manufacturers did it using G++gle Translate. And who am I to argue?

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited March 3
    Penny S wrote: »
    I've a nasty feeling that the translation site I used to write happy birthday in Welsh to my Welsh nephew in law for today, plus a late happy St David's for yesterday got it wrong.
    I bought my wife a card from W+itr+se, with a Welsh greeting. The 'greeting' seemed odd to her, she thinks the manufacturers did it using G++gle Translate. And who am I to argue?

    I saw a beer mug with "Falch i fod yn Gymraeg" on it. I think they were trying to say "Proud to be Welsh", but it seems to me to mean either "proud to be (written) in Welsh" or "proud to be (the language) Welsh"

    Explanation - 'Cymraeg' means Welsh, but only in the context of the language. 'Welsh' as in 'belonging to or pertaining to or coming from Wales' is 'Cymreig'. We don't use it much though. 'Falch i fod o Gymru' - "proud to be from Wales" or 'Falch i fod yn Gymro' - "Proud to be a Welshman" would be more likely.

    Google translate can be useful to check that what you've written makes some kind of sense. It's terrible for translating into a language you don't know well.
  • daisydaisydaisydaisy Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Google translate can be useful to check that what you've written makes some kind of sense. It's terrible for translating into a language you don't know well.
    It’s fun to G++gle Translate something in English into a second language, then a third (etc) and back again into English. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.
  • Well, we used to have that Circus thread where you chose a hymn, translated it many times and eventually back to English, and people had to guess what it was. I guess that, as translation's got better, it wouldn't be such fun these days!
  • PriscillaPriscilla Shipmate
    I’ve had a reply from my tutor - he reckons “ar gyfer ddoe” means “late for yesterday “.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Anyone feeling coronamüde? (Tired of coronavirus)

    German has lots of new words this year - https://tinyurl.com/pb7pam9k
  • PriscillaPriscilla Shipmate
    I love some of these new words - particularly Hamsteritis! It’s a bit like whenever snow is forecast, people stockpile bread and milk, which usually has Darllenwr questioning if people really do like stale bread and sour milk.
  • Priscilla wrote: »
    I love some of these new words - particularly Hamsteritis! It’s a bit like whenever snow is forecast, people stockpile bread and milk, which usually has Darllenwr questioning if people really do like stale bread and sour milk.

    No, they don't let it get stale or sour. They devour it quickly, and become incontinent - which is why there's a dearth of toilet rolls at the same time...
  • Well, we used to have that Circus thread where you chose a hymn, translated it many times and eventually back to English, and people had to guess what it was. I guess that, as translation's got better, it wouldn't be such fun these days!

    I suspect it matters what language you use - translate among English, German, Spanish, and you'll likely find the game dull. Throw in Scottish Gaelic, Chinese, Basque, and you'll likely find some mileage. My understanding is that Google translate improves with both the linguistic proximity of the languages and that volume of written material it has to work with and compare.
  • Some years ago, I visited the parish church of a small seaside town in Southern France, not far from where my sister lives. The priest (or someone) had had the bright idea of printing off a synopsis of the Sunday homily (just a single A4 sheet, one-sided), in various languages, tourists for the benefit of.

    I'm sure they used Google Translate, at least for the English version, as it was...er...difficult to comprehend...

    Still, I thought it was a Good Idea, anyway.
  • This reminds me of Gerard Hoffnung's "Letters from Tyrolean Hoteliers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=725YwvIHE-I
  • PendragonPendragon Shipmate
    I remember a leaflet about the Dover and Pas de Calais regions, promoting visits to the cross channel fortifications, which evidently had multiple translators. (We probably are talking nearly 20 years ago) Although the French for both was fine, whereas in English the Dover info was evidently written by someone with a good grasp of the language, the version of the Calais sites info was a literal translation from the French, so made interesting reading!

    Today has literally been quite alarming. Last year we took the carpet out of the hall, so the floor is just the original boards. Round the edge of the hall were multiple alarm wires, including across the kitchen doorway. Our house had 2 alarm systems when we moved in, although one was dead, and no-one knew the code for the other!

    We have just acquired a Roomba, and its mop counterpart, which couldn't get across the wires into the kitchen. So we decided to remove the wires, which ended up with a lot of turning the lighting circuit on and off to stop the alarm going off! We managed to disable the sounder in the hall, but the external one has had to be cut just inside where the cable goes through the hole in the wall. The annoying thing is that the wires on the floor actually appear to have come from the completely dead one!

    Yet another thing to get traced when we have an essential wiring inspection, due to the state of the kitchen light fitting cable.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Really duff commute today: the train stopped for about a minute and a half just before we got to Waverley, and it made me miss the bus - I saw it leave the bus stop as I came out of the railway station.

    Was consequently v. cold and v.v. pissed off by the time I got to work.

    :rage:

    Not quite sure what to have for supper - there may be a baked potato on the horizon. At least I can let it do its thing while I veg out with a glass of WINE, and nibble on some olives.
  • This reminds me of Gerard Hoffnung's "Letters from Tyrolean Hoteliers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=725YwvIHE-I

    Huh. I've been to Tyrol, and never found any satisfaction with French Widows...
    :naughty:
    ION, and acting on Advice Received, I am now prepared to have the wonderfully-retro dish of SOSSIDGES & MASH for tea.

    I managed to remember, whilst in the Co-Op, that they sell a very nice microwaveable dish of MASH, which does me nicely for two meals. I also have supplies of Brown Sauce, and of Red Sauce, but cannot recall which is the correct one to use. Further wise Advice would be appreciated.
    :wink:

  • Huh. I've been to Tyrol, and never found any satisfaction with French Widows...
    :naughty:
    Obviously went to the wrong hotel.
    I am now prepared to have the wonderfully-retro dish of SOSSIDGES & MASH for tea.
    Presumably the non-retro version is the entirely different MASH & SOSSIDGES.


  • Huh. I've been to Tyrol, and never found any satisfaction with French Widows...
    :naughty:
    Obviously went to the wrong hotel.

    O no - there was one, at least, but not in my room...

  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Thanks for the reminder - I had no idea what to have this evening, but I have sossidges in the freezer, and waitrose mash in the fridge. And sauces. And some veggies which need eating. Maybe gravy would be better than the sauces.
  • acting on Advice Received, I am now prepared to have the wonderfully-retro dish of SOSSIDGES & MASH for tea.

    .... I also have supplies of Brown Sauce, and of Red Sauce, but cannot recall which is the correct one to use.

    My personal preference is brown with sossidges or bacon and red for fish fingers, or fishcakes.
  • The trouble is that I like BOTH sauces equally well, and use them indiscriminately, though I must say I do marginally prefer red sauce on fish (it makes them happier, as, being British Fish, they don't like anything brown...).

    In fact, I lie awake at night worrying about this quite frequently, lockdown having taken all other excitement, and important decisions, out of my life.
  • NenyaNenya Shipmate
    I remember an article in New Scientist claiming that the best way to sound fluent in any language was to learn the appropriate noise to make when you cannot find a word - so Err and Um for English, I'd guess Ach for German.... Supposedly it makes listeners think you are far more fluent than you are, presumably because you no longer sound like a English speaker desperately hunting a word.
    They taught us this at school - we spent some fun moments in French lessons all going "Oeuuuuuu" (extending the vowel sound of "oeuf" without the f on the end).
    Boogie wrote: »
    My son has just had the wonderful news that he’s got a mortgage. He’s been trying for nine months but as he’s in an insecure job (he’s a pilot!) he just met brick walls all the time. Due to divorce and stuff he was this / / close to losing his house last week. Then, at the last minute, he secured a mortgage today.

    I can’t tell you how happy and relieved I am. Cheers! 🥂
    That is excellent news! Congratulations to the Boogielet and I hope you enjoy that glass of sparkle!

    We are also celebrating today (though saving the bubbly until Friday when we will be Zooming with the family) as Nenlet2 has had the corrections on his PhD thesis passed and is now officially a Doctor. We are teasing him about whether we should call him The Doctor. :lol:

    Also, Mr Nen and I received our covid vaccine letters yesterday and booked our jabs this morning. The first one is a week on Sunday. :smiley:

  • MiffyMiffy Shipmate
    I remember an article in New Scientist claiming that the best way to sound fluent in any language was to learn the appropriate noise to make when you cannot find a word - so Err and Um for English, I'd guess Ach for German.... Supposedly it makes listeners think you are far more fluent than you are, presumably because you no longer sound like a English speaker desperately hunting a word.

    I employed that tactic an awful lot when we lived in France. We joked that I said very little, but that that I did say sounded vaguely fluent.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited March 3
    I must say I do marginally prefer red sauce on fish (it makes them happier, as, being British Fish, they don't like anything brown...).
    That is a very naughty thought (says he, in a reproving voice). Surely proper British fish would really like a sauce that came in red, white and blue simultaneously ... although it couldn't be stripey like the toothpaste as that would give us Le Tricoleur - Mon Dieu! Mr. Rous-Migg would not approve.

    PS We're having posh salmon fishcakes for tea!
  • NenyaNenya Shipmate
    Toothpaste-coloured sauce on fish and chips. Ewww. :hushed:

    I took a walk to the shops and braved Tess Co because, wonderful as shopping online is, Sainz Breeze don't stock sulphite-free wine which is the only red that Mr Nen can drink without a following headache and sluggishness the next day. Two bottles of that plus a bottle of single malt and various other bits in my backpack (to make his forthcoming birthday as much of a celebration as one can in lockdown) made the walk home hardgoing and I've now got backache.

    I timed it well, though - it's gone from a dull grey cold day to a dull grey cold wet one.

    We have chick frick for tea but you all knew that, it being Wednesday.
  • @Nenya - I think you could legitimately open the bottle of WHISKY.

    Backache is a nasty complaint, and Strong Medicine is required to at least ameliorate the pain...

    IANAD, I hasten to add, but I know whereof I speak.
  • NenyaNenya Shipmate
    The bottle I was carrying is part of Mr Nen's birthday gift from me and can't be opened until the appropriate day. We do, however, have an opened single malt in the cupboard and I may take your advice later @Bishops Finger . I need to have tea and my evening Zoom meeting first otherwise I'll be nodding off. :sleeping:

    This evening's Zoom is one of the nice things to come out of lockdown - it's a weekly meditation group run by someone I did a course with last year. Mr Nen and I are doing a Lent group series with some of the same people and we were all saying last night how we hope that Zoom meetings will carry on happening when "real life" church meetings start up again.
  • SarasaSarasa Shipmate
    It is wet and miserable here, so much so that I feel like closing the curtains and putting the light on Tea tonight is something with tofu, but we had decided that Sunday will be bangers (vegan) and mash day. I don't like sauce much or gravy, so I usually go for mayonnaise (again vegan) with my sausages and mash. That is probably heresy of the highest order.
  • NenyaNenya Shipmate
    Nenlet1 eats mayonnaise with chips. Mayonnaise with mash is a new one on me. Bangers and mash is a good idea for one evening next week, though.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Congratulations, Dr. Nenlet2 - and Boogielet!
    I can't really join in the Correct Sauce debate: red sauce is indeed quite nice on Sossidges, but it completely buggers the Mash, as it turns it pink, which is Wrong.

    I think the correct lubricant would be onion gravy, but not too much of it. It's a very long time since I tasted brown sauce, and I can't remember whether I liked it or not.

    I really must investigate the local butcher's; I haven't had Sossidges and Mash since David died (it was one of his specialities), and I doubt that I could replicate his mashed potatoes, which were most excellent. :cry:
  • Plan for supper is bean burgers with chips - sweet potato and polenta, plus salads - a couple of Ottolenghi recipes - broccoli two ways with chilli and cumin and a carrot salad with sumac and dried apricots (the carrots are roasted with various things before adding to the dressing). The broccoli recipe is currently my favourite way of eating broccoli. And I must go and cook it.

    We got out before it started raining, mostly. Very grey and dull outside.
  • daisydaisydaisydaisy Shipmate
    Supper is sossiges (also vegan, like @Sarasa) with leeks (it’s leek with everything right now) and a baked potato, with chutney - probably gooseberry.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Got the saussies with bubble'n'squeak out of the way on Monday. Yesterday was belly pork braised with pineapple (not quite sweet and sour but trending that way). Tonight is a favourite - hake with chorizo, potatoes, cherry tomatoes and sherry.

    Tomorrow gammon and cabbage. Friday poor Mr F is having dental surgery, so probably cheese soufflé.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    We have just had meatballs, with mash and gravy, plus cabbage, leeks and broccoli.
    Wednesday is a day of choice ie nothing is fixed. It usually depends what needs eating up in the freezer, but today I ventured into the next small town in the bus ( to go to the bank) and went into M&S food hall. I was overwhelmed by the myriad choices on offer, but settled for the aforementioned meatballs as they were better quality but reduced for quick sale. Of the other options, most were what my mother would have called Foreign Food, and Mr Puzzler and I have different tastes. It would have been nice to try something new but I wasn’t brave enough today.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited March 3
    Piglet wrote: »
    I really must investigate the local butcher's.
    Tragedy! The best local butcher we know, where we bought both our Christmas venison and New Year ham, is closing down.

    In an unintentionally funny comment, he says that it's because of the long hours and "a lack of new blood coming into the industry".

  • Firenze wrote: »
    Tomorrow gammon and cabbage. Friday poor Mr F is having dental surgery, so probably cheese soufflé.
    Red cabbage with apple? That's really nice.

    Poor Mr F.

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