Management

ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
I had my performance review. I was not expecting it to go all well, as I had some mental health issues (of which manager knows the details) which severely impacted my work.

What I did not expect was this:

"Last year I was a bit disappointed in your attitude and the time it took you to do things.

"I know you were unwell, so I don't know why I'm bringing it up."

I know why you are bringing it
up. And I doubly know because you used the line again later for something else.

God I miss my former manager.
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Comments

  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 22
    Tosspot. I hope you are in a good union with a shop steward who will fry his arse.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    I used to curse the unions for their activity now I do for their in~
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I hope you are in the public sector or a big company where they have a clear understanding of the law. In the public sector, you could well think about a complaint for that, and it might even work. Oh, yes, Union very important.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Thanks, all. I am in a strong union position.

    This just adds to my general concern. I'm on continued short term contracts (which I signed up to, so I don't complain), and her attitude, and management skills, are sadly lacking.

    I've been yelled at for no good reason (because she wanted something done differently), told all I do is "busy" work, etc. A tough adjustment.

    But this isn't all about me. Feel free to vent about your experiences.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    My bad experience with management was years ago. I thought I was being a team player by facilitating a complaint by a client, but it turned out I was wrong. They did the old drip torture of small complaints about my performance every few weeks in formal settings before hitting me with a bullying accusation. That's when I got the Union involved and they moved me to another workplace. Never looked back, and every now and again I see the manager at meetings and always give her the dirtiest looks I can muster and oppose her points. She loves that.
  • HelenEvaHelenEva Shipmate
    Oh yes - the manager who in their heart of hearts doesn't really believe mental illness is a thing and feels your attitude would be better if you showed more resilience. Lovely.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I heard an interesting discussion/assassination of John Bolton's management style on the NPR Politics podcast: Kiss up, kick down.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    Imagine working in government now, where you'd know if you took your complaints up the chain of command you'd come to the missing link.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    I heard an interesting discussion/assassination of John Bolton's management style on the NPR Politics podcast: Kiss up, kick down.

    He might do better with "Be kind to everyone you meet on the way up, because you may meet them again on the way down". ;)
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Oh dear. It gets better.

    She turns up to everyone else's presentations and leaves just before mine. I get the feeling I'm not liked.

    A 2 day team get-together is organised 1.5 hrs away. She then books meetings with other people so we get an hour together. Jeez.

    I was asked to contribute to a trade publication and she clearly was not happy. I asked her to review it and all I got was, You write well, but I wouldn't have done it that way. Further questions revealed my understanding is simplistic, with no other guidance.

    I'm :lol: rather than :cry: ... I'm clearly unliked. Oh well.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I'm not liking what I'm hearing about this one's management style either.
  • KittyvilleKittyville Shipmate
    She has a management style?

    She sounds like an arsehole, Climacus. I'm glad you can laugh about it. Stay strong.
  • JacobsenJacobsen Shipmate
    And keep a written record of every interaction. It's the only way.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, 8th Day Host
    edited April 7
    Yes, keep a work issues diary - not on your work computer, but at home, and back it up on a thumb drive that lives in a safe place - and update it every time there's an unpleasant interaction. I had an evil boss who was clearly targeting me and another employee. She managed to bully my colleague into quitting.

    When she made one last attack on me before leaving for another job and sent me to see the HR manager, I revealed to him that I had a 25-page work issues diary (single spaced! 11-point type!) and shared a few highlights. Things changed drastically. Her accomplice backed off, and nothing else was ever said about a new assignment that was clearly designed to show off my weaknesses. I'm still there, and much happier.


  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    I read an interesting article a day or two which expressed the idea that when people quit a position, they're not leaving a company, but a manager/supervisor. Bad management is the #1 reason people leave jobs.
  • Climacus wrote: »
    ...I was asked to contribute to a trade publication and she clearly was not happy. I asked her to review it and all I got was, You write well, but I wouldn't have done it that way. Further questions revealed my understanding is simplistic, with no other guidance.

    Sounds to me like she's not very bright (no sin there) and not very nice either (more of a problem). That 'simplistic' with no guidance is an insult, not a criticism - I can imagine one or two ex-colleagues (lecturers - less able, more insecure) using it when out of their depth with a bright student. I like the diary idea.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited April 9
    Thank you all: good idea.

    To confirm: I'm not fussed if my work is labelled simplistic. In fact I may've said so [or some form of the word] to the journal editor when I was asked and suggested he go elsewhere. It is, as Mark wrote, an insult to me given no guidance was given and I was told when I asked for suggestions, "No, If that's how you see it, then...leave it be."

    Mark: in fact she is very bright - she knows more than I'll ever forget. It's the management that's the issue to me -- she should not be in charge of people.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I had a similar situation once, where a manager criticised a particular paragraph. I defended, so he picked another. I defended again, and he said that the tone of the letter was wrong. That's when I realised he wanted me gone.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Re keeping track and documenting:
    ,
    Keep copies of all e-mails to, from, and about her and your projects.

    This saved me. I was running a project, where I had to get info from lots of people, then act on it. While I was off for a day, compost hit the fan. When I got back, I was met with fury. It turned out that one person had unknowingly given me the wrong info, and acting on it caused some difficulty. I was able to provide a copy of the person's e-mail, and I was off the hook. Felt sorry for the person, though.

    I just kept the copies on my work computer, and I think I had some hard copies, too.
  • This may vary depending on your jurisdiction but it's certainly the case in my neck of the woods: create a folder in your inbox labelled "personal and confidential" and file all the relevant emails there. Even if it's on your employer's server, it's illegal for them to go digging about in it without your permission.

    (I used to be on the works council and learned much useful information about harassment.)
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    ;) You could give the boss a copy of "The Peter Principle". The book's premise is that managers/employees rise to the level of their incompetence. ;)
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    lver--

    Interesting. I'm not sure of the current practice here. But it used to be that anything stored on the company's computer system belongs to the company, including e-mail. And they could read it, especially if they were sifting through the company's e-mail for security leaks, etc.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    I'm getting slightly concerned about the level of quasi-legal advice the OP is getting, so I'm just going to insert standard Ship boilerplate here.
    Only an idiot would take advice from a bunch of randoms on the internet, rather than an actual employment lawyer in their jurisdiction, or their union/professional body.

    Thank you for your attention.

    DT
    HH
  • Climacus wrote: »
    Mark: in fact she is very bright

    Ah, then I had her wrong - different kind of twat :smile:
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I don't reckon you should store anything on your work computer that you wouldn't want your boss seeing, whether it is legal or illegal for your boss to look at it.
  • HelenEvaHelenEva Shipmate
    I've had some horrible bosses and my experience has been that you don't realise how bad it is until it's had time to grind you down and you've lost your ability/drive to get another job. So even if you don't feel like you mind all that much about what's happening Climacus, I hope you can get some support and ideally away from this horrible person sooner rather than later.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    I *am* the manager.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    LeRoc wrote: »
    I *am* the manager.

    aaaaahhhhhhhhh! Run!!!!!!!!!!
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    LeRoc--
    LeRoc wrote: »
    I *am* the manager.

    Is that like being The Walrus? In which case you're Paul. (Beatles ref.)
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    aaaaahhhhhhhhh! Run!!!!!!!!!!
    I saw you.

    Golden Key wrote: »
    Is that like being The Walrus?
    Is that song about weed?

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    LeRoc wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    aaaaahhhhhhhhh! Run!!!!!!!!!!
    I saw you.

    Golden Key wrote: »
    Is that like being The Walrus?
    Is that song about weed?

    Fuck knows. It's also about custard and pilchards, so your guess is... Yes, it's about weed. In a way.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Or acid.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    good acid though... Bad acid would be a song about chucking and hallucinating simultaneously.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 16
    Back to shit management - Change Management and all who cannot consider the possibility that a process for replacing an entire SQL cluster supporing multiple business crtical applications with hundreds of users may be unnecessarily beaurocratic for installing a management console on an admin server user only internally by a small IT team.

    Eta. And also syllogistic responses - we must do something, this is something, therefore we will do this. All dogs have four legs, my cat has four legs, therefore my cat is a dog.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Climacus wrote: »

    Mark: in fact she is very bright - she knows more than I'll ever forget. It's the management that's the issue to me -- she should not be in charge of people.

    Knowledge and recall are very useful but they are not the same as intelligence! This can be a serious disadvantage when something novel comes along, especially one concerning people. I have a very knowledgeable manager with excellent recall but she has, um, flexibility problems.
  • Indeed. My workplace two problems at the mo. One is the project manager at our main international client, who believes we never get anything done on time (this is partly true, but it's fucking science for God's sake, we are experimenting with stuff!), and the other is that our management have taken on far more work than we can actually do.

    Despite that I still like the place, but this may be because before I started there I was in academia where there really are some grade one cunts.

    AG
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Legal Aid in Victoria is managed by an Accountant.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Staff survey reports discontent with feeling valued.

    University decides to pay an external company to implement an online eCard system where you can send eCards to each other, like and comment! One "Celebrating with Others" [an award for having a birthday cake?] features a computer with the Aboriginal flag on it. I'm all for indigenous awareness but this just seems offensive -- what has that to do with Indigenous issues? Just like the photo of our Dear Leader with an Aboriginal scarf in front of a dot painting on our website. Again -- cultural appropriation goes through my mind.

    My favourite though is the card which is titled "Day Maker". Dirty Harry?

    Your tax dollars at work. I shudder. I sometimes think universities deserve to have their funding slashed if this is how they spend money. Lesson 1 in how to miss the bloody point.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Oh, and as I typed that another example entered my Inbox.

    The Dear Leader of our Division has noticed we felt communication was lacking.

    Solution? Increase the number of newsletters her team generates.

    I feel my psychologist is going to get both barrels this afternoon.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I simply would not be able to stop myself undermining such a scheme.
  • NiteowlNiteowl Shipmate
    Had one awful manager who took a dislike to me from day one. She liked to call me names in front of others and physically assaulted a couple of other people before she was placed in a position without being over other people. Liked the job once I got a new manager. It took several of us to telling our stories to get something done.m
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    edited May 27
    I'm sure it's bad form to resurrect one's thread, but:

    That's terrible Niteowl. And physical assault. Wow.


    More exchanges:

    Manager: T & Q have been looking in our systems without asking.
    Me: That doesn't sound like T...or Q. What were they doing?
    Manager: What I said: looking in our system for content. YOU said we couldn't do that.
    Me: No, I said some content was not tracked. I still don't see it.
    Other colleague: It does sound odd.
    Me: *lightbulb moment* Did they mention the word GOAT?
    Manager: Yes.
    Me: That's it. That's a different system they own.

    (I'm fine with people, and new people, not knowing things...but not taking notice of what was actually said in a meeting, then accusing people?)

    ---

    Colleague: I need your help with a institution-wide survey.
    Manager: I have no interest at all and want no involvement. Can you do it yourself?

    (Of course...I just asked for your help for a laugh. Thankfully manager's manager was helpful.)

    ----

    Manager: Jenny is visiting later.
    Me: Do you mean Jen...she goes by Jen.
    Manager: Yes, Jenny. You've worked with Jenny?
    Me. Jen, yes I know and have worked with Jen.

    *Jen arrives*

    Me: Hi Jen.
    Manager: Hello Jenny.




    I spent 90 mins with my psychologist last week talking about these, and other encounters (including one that had me ready to find a baseball bat and punch it through my window....completely ignored the point and the large workload increase on a colleague - no sympathy or concern). I needed to know if my approach was sane. Turns out my psych thinks I'm alright.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    argh. Poisonous workplaces are such fun...
  • Soror MagnaSoror Magna Shipmate
    What Mousethief said ^^^. People don't leave a job, they leave a "leader". My former boss retired, and what was a great place to work has turned into a nightmare.
  • edited June 13
    Well....
    Employees can be pretty bad as well. In the last 5 years for example, we've been stolen from - employee was eventually charged, we didn't want to, but insurance demanded it. Another just stopped coming to work. Another gave the legal 2 weeks notice to resign, but not the contracted 6 weeks, and then left after 1 week. Still another was crediting payments randomly and not to the people paying. And it's a small operation - just 20 in grand total. Some of these problems are >$10k to fix.

    And I've paid all sorts of good will expenses for employees related to their unexpected needs. Perhaps things are different when the manager isn't the business owner. I am demanding, of best efforts, honesty and similar, and most often get it. Just don't hit me.
  • Soror MagnaSoror Magna Shipmate
    ... Another just stopped coming to work. Another gave the legal 2 weeks notice to resign, but not the contracted 6 weeks, and then left after 1 week. ...

    Maybe they decided getting out asap was worth the loss of a reference or severance pay.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    What Mousethief said ^^^. People don't leave a job, they leave a "leader". My former boss retired, and what was a great place to work has turned into a nightmare.

    That's here.

    My director will now call me after my manager, in a public meeting, expressed the view that I was not telling her what I was doing. For that read, the people who asked for 1 piece of work from me are ignoring her and her repeated attempts to interfere in something she does not understand, and I told her to go to them as I had no authority to change specification. Thankfully the director likes me and knows the esteem I'm held in so I think it will go okay.

    I'm not saying I'm perfect, far from it. I can improve. And I do stuff up occasionally (and admit it). But this current manager is driving me up the wall, and driving me to look for a new job (which I think is her aim...she always complains she has me, a data analyst, and not a data scientist).

    NOprophet_NØprofit: indeed employees can be bad. I take the view Soror Magna does.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Well....
    Employees can be pretty bad as well.

    Cry me a river. It must just suck so hard to have power over other people's lives.
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host, 8th Day Host
    Good managers are brilliant. Poor managers are hell. I have experienced both.

    Just one example (and not of the worst):

    I worked for a small business, owned and run by a lady, with women well represented across the (technology driven) business. This was a really good place to work - my first casual dress place.

    Eventually, the business was sold to a besuited company who were all male (not unusual). The first thing they did was to dismiss the three most senior women. Not to mention turn the place into a sucky sucky place to work. I left (to a ridiculous and wrong job) very soon.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    Sorry to read, SC.


    Sorry, I know this is not really the place, but I need to stop ranting and seek advice. Others feel free to rant.

    I had the meeting with the director. It turned out the complaint was that I focussed more on others' requests than her's. She was offered the chance to talk to me and said No, she wanted the director to. I acknowledged my focus was on others' work (people come direct to me), said I would do better and provided a brief outline on why I acted like I did. But I said I would change.

    He then asked me what I thought about working with her. I am a bad liar and told the truth -- I find her a poor manager and gave examples, all the while stating this was just my opinion and it may be we just don't get on. Based on the examples I gave, he wants to speak to the rest of the team.

    She now knows this -- that he wants to speak to the rest of the team. And would've joined the dots on why, I think, if the director did not make it explicit.

    Monday morning is concerning me. I doubt it can go well. Either she says nothing and the frosty relationship continues, or she says something and I need to answer, without giving too much away (I think).

    How would you prepare? Or am I over-analysing? This is the first time I have ever done this or been in this situation and I don't care for it. I've had poor managers before but it has never reached the stage where their manager has asked me about them. Did I do the wrong thing in expressing my view (too late now...but a lesson learnt...)? I'm a bundle of confusion and nerves.

    Thanks.
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