We are such a fucking parasite on this planet. Bring on the meteorite

Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host, 8th Day Host
The more I see of human behaviour and attitudes the more I think we don't deserve this planet. We trash the oceans, the sky, the land, and we - collectively as a species - continue to do this despite all the evidence.

We hate each other - demonising other members of the species. We hate our young. We hate our women. We seem to hate ourselves.

What the utter fuck is the point of us?
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Comments

  • FirenzeFirenze Heaven Host
    Not to worry. We’ll be gone soon - only another few generations. Think of returning wilderness greening our cities, while Nature sorts out the next apex predator, and in some swamp or burrow or treetop some inconspicuous mammal/reptile/insect starts on the long road to self-awareness.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Yes we are.

    But don’t worry about the planet, it will be fine and we’ll be long gone.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited July 8
    Maybe that process has already begun?

    The higher apes are pretty canny (as long as we don't exterminate them in the meantime), and, if the seas are allowed to survive, the dolphins, whales, etc. will probably flourish as well. Last time I looked, they didn't chuck plastic away...

    But yes - maybe a good dose of meteorite (or chunk of asteroid) would be better for poor Gaia in the long run. At least it would get rid of orange babies with cats on their heads (let the reader understand).

    IJ
  • TortufTortuf Shipmate
    Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me. Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
    What the utter fuck is the point of us? I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. If someone says they know they are making it up based upon their hopes and fears.

    To hell with the point. It is none of my business. My complete and sole business is to seek God's guidance and do my best to carry out that guidance.

    How do you change the world to make it better? Change yourself.
  • quetzalcoatlquetzalcoatl Shipmate
    I often feel despair over this. As kids we used to see eels, watervoles, orchids, lapwings, curlew, all nearly gone. Fuck off, humans. Fuck off and die.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited July 8
    Yes, but at least some Huming Beans recognise that such Beasticles and Birdlings still belong to Gaia, and still have a place.

    Therein lies a very fragile hope....

    IJ
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Tortuf wrote: »
    To hell with the point. It is none of my business. My complete and sole business is to seek God's guidance and do my best to carry out that guidance.

    How do you change the world to make it better? Change yourself.
    :notworthy:
  • Firenze wrote: »
    Not to worry. We’ll be gone soon - only another few generations. Think of returning wilderness greening our cities, while Nature sorts out the next apex predator, and in some swamp or burrow or treetop some inconspicuous mammal/reptile/insect starts on the long road to self-awareness.

    Next time around, we (sorry, they) may not be able to industrialise, since the large majority of surface minerals are used up. Unless it takes a VERY long time, and new coal seams are laid down. I wonder if the sun has that long to go.
  • agingjbagingjb Shipmate
    An impact severe enough to remove all of us would take out virtually everything else. A pandemic specific to humanity would probably be of more value to the rest of the biosphere.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    Not to worry. We’ll be gone soon - only another few generations. Think of returning wilderness greening our cities, while Nature sorts out the next apex predator, and in some swamp or burrow or treetop some inconspicuous mammal/reptile/insect starts on the long road to self-awareness.
    It is the hubris that is us which assumes anything needs to fill our place. The dinosaurs, as well as numerous other classifications, survived for millions of years more than we have been in existence without developing into what we are. There is no need for a species such as us. Indeed, more evidence that we are a detriment.
  • ThunderBunkThunderBunk Shipmate
    Are we just a minor fuck-up in the history of creation? Normal service will be resumed fairly shortly - ?
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Evolution is not a plan.
  • ThunderBunkThunderBunk Shipmate
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Evolution is not a plan.

    I was wondering about the perspective of a creative deity on this unfolding farce.
  • edited July 8
    I think we're supposed to have 2 views of time, 2 views of existence. Amphibious is what CS Lewis wrote- in the material world and in the eternal.

    Forgive me for a lengthy post. I was raised in a house hold by a research geologist, and spent my early childhood in field camps in Pre-Cambrian shield country, seeing Radiate fossils beside lakes and when south of the Canadian Shield, picking up Creataceous irridescent clam-like fossils when we weren't driving through Drumheller, Alberta seeing the dinosaurs. We have to reconcile our inherited mythology of the bible and written history.

    Mammal species last typically 2 million years. We're close to the limit. Everytime another hominid is dug up in Olduvai Gorge it seems we're even more overdue. A couple of million years is short in the history of the earth. Both religion and earth science tell us too think eternally, or practically so. In our modern time we should agree that this is the time scale we know of the planet. I'm working through trying to tune myself to companionship with with what the science says about the universe and the earth, and what we're told of an eternal god. There's something coincident there.

    12,000 years ago where I am now, there was an ice sheet several kilometres thick. 8,000 years ago the river was running through where my house is was 100x broader than it is today. 200,000 years ago there was a shallow sea here. 20 million years ago a small continental fault was just stopping moving south of me. 350-450 million years ago there was a mountain range north of me, now eroded to the rocky outcrops where I saw fossils as a child.

    We've got to free ourselves of self-centredness, from the boundaries of human time scales. In that way we do not matter at all, and in another we live forever.

    People say that cockroaches will take over. Maybe they will for a while. The Permian Extinction caused >90% of all species to go extinct 250 million years ago. We don't know why. Life burgeoned by 5-15 million years later. In 1979 Walter and Luis Alvarez figured out the Cretacious Extinction 65 million years ago was asteroid-caused. Our identifiable ancestors showed up 2-5 million years ago. Long time frames. The bible and our religion is how old? Can we really say we know?

    What of all this? Our reading of the bible mustn't ignore what had been learned about things since it was written. We're important because we are us, we're here and we're doing things. We are part of an eternal cosmic play. We have innumerable chances for redemption. But we're not 'it', and only special just now. I think our problems stem from a primitive, self centred philosophy, undeveloped violent religion, from which comes both cruelty and false belief that we know what is going on. Do unto others is an ethos of all creation. Not just us.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited July 8
    Hom. sap. is 500-300,000 years old. H s. s. could be just 80-50,000 We're going to get smarter. A lot smarter. As individuals. Over tens and hundreds of thousands of years. Against the background of our exponentially smartening technologically augmented collectives.
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host, 8th Day Host
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Evolution is not a plan.

    I was wondering about the perspective of a creative deity on this unfolding farce.

    The creative deity who destroyed all in the flood, you mean? I should think he is constantly sickened by us and trying to work out his next move.

    @NOprophet_NØprofit - I think you have a point here. In the last few hundred years at least, we have retained our existence at the cost of the earth. We are pushing the envelope harder and harder, and it will kick us. While I believe we are special - made in the image of God - I don't think that means we are neccesseraly indispensible.

    But I see the Gaia imagery much stronger than the creation one here (because i have seen the creation imagery abused so much). Gaia will destroy us. We only have ourselves to blame.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    I wonder if the sun has that long to go.
    5 billion years, if that is any comfort. It's halfway through its life.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    NoProphet aside, the level of scientific literacy showing on this thread is, frankly, lamentable.

    No wonder we're in such a parlous state as a species.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    NoProphet aside, the level of scientific literacy showing on this thread is, frankly, lamentable.

    Hey, at least we're not debating whether climate change is caused by humanity. Or even whether the climate is changing. Things could be worse; other nations could have the piss-poor state of debate the US has.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    We are all descended from ancient Hairdressers and Telephone Sanitisers ejected from a planet in a distant star system. The planet's original intelligent inhabitants were supposed to be mice and the earth is an eons old gio-supercomputer grinding through the question: "What is the meaning of Life, the universe and everything." Something went wrong a long time ago. What should we expect?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    RdrEmCofE--

    Yes, I was thinking of the H2G2 books, too.
    (LOTFL)
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host
    edited July 9
    Climacus wrote: »
    I wonder if the sun has that long to go.
    5 billion years, if that is any comfort. It's halfway through its life.
    [frivolity]
    Unless you believe some of the fruit-bats whose witterings periodically clog up the interweb, in which case it's got until a week on Tuesday.
    [/frivolity OFF]
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    NoProphet aside, the level of scientific literacy showing on this thread is, frankly, lamentable.

    No wonder we're in such a parlous state as a species.

    Thanks for the appeal to my narcissism. I am really an effing genius. At best I'm moderately scientifically literate. And at best only moderately theological literate. And I'm a asshole about both. But Education is in such a perilous state isn't it. You've theology people and science people who don't know a goddamned thing and argue as if they have a clue, engaging in the intellectual onanism of repeated theological and science pornography of nonsense and felt elation without any intellect intruding. Shooting blanks all of you. Who vasectomied your brains? "You who cannot draw on [500 million years] are living from hand to mouth." (Goethe)

    For you churchy people, guess who wrote this:
    "There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been and are being evolved."

    Can you not see the wonderful life which has occurred, and doesn't come about except rarely? "This is the Great Theatre of Life. Admission is free, but the taxation is mortal. You come when you can, and leave when you must. The show is continuous." (Robertson Davies)

    "Fuck me gently with a chainsaw Heather". (Heathers)

  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    NoProphet aside, the level of scientific literacy showing on this thread is, frankly, lamentable.

    No wonder we're in such a parlous state as a species.

    What's its lack got to do with that? Apart from the assumption of purpose and lack of understanding that we are the 'best' of all possible evolved species.
  • ThunderBunkThunderBunk Shipmate
    [engage PSA mode] This is a hell thread. This is not in Purgatory, meaning that intelligent debate is not required. Returning you to your normal Hellish prodding and dandypranding [disengage PSA mode]
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    NoProphet aside, the level of scientific literacy showing on this thread is, frankly, lamentable.

    No wonder we're in such a parlous state as a species.

    Enlighten us, oh Master.

  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    Well, it might be niche complaint, but @Bishops Finger in post 3 believes that asteroid and a meteorite are different things...
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited July 9
    Guilty as charged, m'Lud! Post in haste, and repent at leisure.
    :blush:

    Which rather goes to prove your point, perhaps.

    I'll get me coat, and go and play elsewhere.

    IJ
  • ThatcherightThatcheright Shipmate
    Sorry but we are adaptive creatures, and happy to consign those who need to be sacrificed to their deaths in order to enable the richer and more sophisticated part of humanity to survive.

    We will invent new things to mitigate environmental changes, and if some have to die so be it. That is evolution in action. Selfish hatefulness leads to survival and breeding.

    That is how we have evolved and we can no more be defeated by this planet we live on than by the bleating of hippie-dippy enviro-socialists. We ignore the socialists and engineer the planet to our will.

    But that's fine as long as I'm okay.

    Enjoy!
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Hom. sap. is 500-300,000 years old. H s. s. could be just 80-50,000 We're going to get smarter. A lot smarter. As individuals. Over tens and hundreds of thousands of years. Against the background of our exponentially smartening technologically augmented collectives.

    This only works if thick people have lower reproductive success than clever ones. Do you have any evidence this is the case?
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    We ignore the socialists and engineer the planet to our will.
    I think you'll find most of the engineers are socialists.
  • FirenzeFirenze Heaven Host
    I fancy the First Horseman will be Plague. And like the Poe story, he will be able to crash the party no problem.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    We ignore the socialists and engineer the planet to our will.
    I think you'll find most of the engineers are socialists.

    Quite. Contemplating positive global change without changing humanity is the definition of wishful thinking.
  • ThunderBunkThunderBunk Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    I fancy the First Horseman will be Plague. And like the Poe story, he will be able to crash the party no problem.

    Plague fuelled by the absence of beneficial organisms of a use entirely beyond the tiny mind of Trumpeteers and their allies. Or the idiot above trotting across a bridge?
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Well, it might be niche complaint, but @Bishops Finger in post 3 believes that asteroid and a meteorite are different things...
    By the time the big one falls on our head, people will still be arguing over definitions :smile:
  • Shame you don't live in the US, @LeRoc, otherwise I'd have bought you this bumper sticker.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Shame you don't live in the US, @LeRoc, otherwise I'd have bought you this bumper sticker.
    Heh, nice one.

  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    One time I visited someone in a bad situation. He was running around doing lots of different things, but despite his best efforts was making a tiny dent in the problems.

    Naively I asked him why he did it and how he kept going.

    He just shrugged and said he was just doing what he could. And that he had to keep doing it.

    It is quite true, this thing is a stinking pile of shite and it often feels like we are making no impact - or even making things worse.

    But on some level, if we don't want to sink into the pit of despair, we have to focus on our little bit and making sure we are "doing what we can".

    That's it.
  • Schroedingers CatSchroedingers Cat Shipmate, Waving not Drowning Host, 8th Day Host
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    One time I visited someone in a bad situation. He was running around doing lots of different things, but despite his best efforts was making a tiny dent in the problems.

    Naively I asked him why he did it and how he kept going.

    He just shrugged and said he was just doing what he could. And that he had to keep doing it.

    It is quite true, this thing is a stinking pile of shite and it often feels like we are making no impact - or even making things worse.

    But on some level, if we don't want to sink into the pit of despair, we have to focus on our little bit and making sure we are "doing what we can".

    That's it.

    The problem is, I work in IT, and know development teams like this running around being busy fixing things and making changes in a complex and difficult way, when what it needed is a wholesale rewrite.

    Yes, they are keeping things going. But they are keeping the wrong thing going in the end.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    @Schroedingers Cat - almost everyone is doing it wrong. If we sat down and objectively looked at the real value of people's work, the vast majority of IT would be various shades of entirely worthless. Most of us get up in the morning, shift around a few things to get paid and come home again. Most of us leave precious little that will be remembered 5 minutes after we are gone, never mind 100 years.

    Almost all of us are living lives that almost all of are worthless. Damaging the planet. Hardly helping anyone beyond our bubble. Leaving this place in more of a mess than it was when we arrived.

    In that context, managing to do anything worthwhile is a major accomplishment.
  • finelinefineline Purgatory Host
    I don’t know. Is life about doing and producing, or about being? I was listening to some monastic podcasts yesterday that were challenging the idea of life being measured in a consumerist way, by what we do and produce. For myself, I am not producing anything at the moment. I am not running around doing different things, because I can’t. There is some part of me that feels totally pointless because of this, but I also have difficulty seeing the worthiness of our lives being about running around and doing things.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Fineline's post seems to me to be full of truth.

    But I came here to make a frivolous joke.

    Bum.
  • finelinefineline Purgatory Host
    Ha, sorry, Simon Toad. My post wasn’t very hellish - it was just an interesting topic to me. Don’t mind me - make your frivolous joke. :smile:
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    Ha, sorry, Simon Toad. My post wasn’t very hellish - it was just an interesting topic to me. Don’t mind me - make your frivolous joke. :smile:

    Yeah! Joke! Joke! Joke!
  • edited July 10
    Yes, they are keeping things going. But they are keeping the wrong thing going in the end.

    I dunno. I earn quite a small amount in a PT job these days, and amuse myself by fixing things which, in an average year, save my employer more than the cost of employing me - and I suppose that's a sideline on the 'customer facing' role they think they employ me for. At the same time they will execute periodic strategic spasms and blow very large sums of (public) cash on things which probably amount to little more than vanity projects. This renders my work meaningless, from an economic point of view. But I carry on. Bring on the meteorite.

    Hmm, I agree - I need a joke.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Firenze wrote: »
    I fancy the First Horseman will be Plague. And like the Poe story, he will be able to crash the party no problem.

    Yep, the misuse of antibiotics will see to that.

  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Yep, the misuse of antibiotics will see to that.
    Yup.

    I'm also afraid for when a HIV- or Ebola-type virus will become airborne.

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    LeRoc wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    Yep, the misuse of antibiotics will see to that.
    Yup.

    I'm also afraid for when a HIV- or Ebola-type virus will become airborne.

    Since antibiotics are completely ineffective against viruses it really makes no difference.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    If Ebola was airborne, it would burn itself out extraordinarily quickly. The only reason it creates the havoc it does is that relies on fluid contact to spread.

    HIV - with the right drugs regime, very few people die of it. Life expectancy is now similar to those without it.
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    edited July 10
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    If Ebola was airborne, it would burn itself out extraordinarily quickly. The only reason it creates the havoc it does is that relies on fluid contact to spread.

    HIV - with the right drugs regime, very few people die of it. Life expectancy is now similar to those without it.
    Type.
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