Preferential Treatment for Long Standing "Elite" Members

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Comments

  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I stopped contributing on the Ukraine thread - indeed, I stopped reading it, like almost everybody else, I expect - because it had become a futile point-scoring "discussion" about points of grammar.

    More generally, if my posts don't get a response (unless I've asked a specific poster to respond) I implement good advice given by somebody here (I can't remember who) long ago: I comfort myself with the vain illusion that the best explanation is that everybody else is left lost for words by the brilliant point I made in the post.

    This is most probably far from the truth, but it makes me feel good inside.

    :killingme: :notworthy:
  • Mark BettsMark Betts Shipmate
    edited January 1
    Eutychus wrote: »
    As a point of order, this isn't true. I can't be bothered to go back and look right now, but at least one other person acknowledged my point of view (which I hesitate to equate with yours, by the way) and conceded there might be some truth in it.

    Just to clarify, I didn't claim your view was exactly the same as mine, but supported some of the points I made.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Also, this. It helps to assume that a lack of response signals a lack of disagreement, or at least that others are tacitly conceding the point.]

    That's not always true. Sometimes the silence is because people can't be bothered to argue the point any longer and are hoping that if they leave it alone the thread will die. Well, that's what I was hoping for the Ukrainian Orthodox Church thread.
    No, but it is sometimes true—especially for those who don’t have strong opinions either way and who don’t feel they have much substantive to contribute, and who are following the discussion much like they might follow a discussion on TV.

    Yes, I do this a lot on Eccles threads.

  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    Mark Betts wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    As a point of order, this isn't true. I can't be bothered to go back and look right now, but at least one other person acknowledged my point of view (which I hesitate to equate with yours, by the way) and conceded there might be some truth in it.

    Just to clarify, I didn't claim your view was exactly the same as mine, but supported some of the points I made.

    Don't do this - ague your own points. Assuming that other people generally agree with you because (you think) they make similar points is a technique used by spectacularly ineffective shipmates, and which winds people up.
  • Mark BettsMark Betts Shipmate
    edited January 1
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    Mark Betts wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    As a point of order, this isn't true. I can't be bothered to go back and look right now, but at least one other person acknowledged my point of view (which I hesitate to equate with yours, by the way) and conceded there might be some truth in it.

    Just to clarify, I didn't claim your view was exactly the same as mine, but supported some of the points I made.

    Don't do this - ague your own points. Assuming that other people generally agree with you because (you think) they make similar points is a technique used by spectacularly ineffective shipmates, and which winds people up.

    Please...
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited January 1
    ... please don't derail still another thread into quibbles that have nothing to do with the topic (this is why I didn't bother going down that particular rabbit-hole in response to your post before last).

    In this case, a topic brought to the table by you.

    We are here, in the Styx, because you have exercised your right to use it, to discuss your allegations relating, essentially, to unfair treatment of Shipmates by Crew.

    Every time the allegations made on this thread by you in that respect have been effectively countered by all other on-topic posters, you've either moved on to a different allegation or deflected.

    It is extremely difficult to continue presuming good faith on your part in such circumstances. I am doing my best but do not promise to do so indefinitely.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    Sometimes people stop responding after a while as they fear being overtaken and consumed by existential despair.
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    Sometimes people stop responding after a while as they fear being overtaken and consumed by existential despair.

    Or they have better things to do ... Like changing the cat's litter box. :wink:
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    Anyone not looking at this though specs with the mirror finish on the wrong side can see that, whilst hosting is neither perfect nor even, there is no elite. I certainly have issues with the way certain things have been handled in the past, so I am kissing no spotty, crew behinds in this.
    Fuck it, I will mention names. You, Mark Betts, do not like the respect Josephine is given. She is not an "elite", she earned it by considered and reasonable posting.
    Your posting has earned a lack of respect.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Actually, I think Mark Betts is right; there IS an elite (or more accurately, several, and their boundaries are more like "the shoreline and the sea" -- thank you songwriter Cohen -- than they are like edges ) on the Ship. In fact, I think human groups generally nearly always form some sort of elite. It's not, however, a question of the folks who form these elites being treated differently so much as it's a matter of whose contributions seem to carry weight, move discussions forward, open up new possibilities. This happens in nearly every group I've ever been part of; some people emerge as leaders, influencers, modelers, and so on; others emerge as followers, agree-ers, opposers, and so on. Threads

    It seems to me that Mark Betts' real complaint is that he sees his role in Ship groups differently than Shipmates do. Well, I'll admit that the same sometimes happens for me -- though at other times, I feel my contributions are responded to in ways that place me in that ever-shifting "elite." In my case, it's usually a temporary status, but hey -- I'm an English teacher, and we all know they're a pretty weird bunch.

    That said, the "elite" shifts, and shifts constantly. If I'm reading a thread about dogs, and Boogie contributes, I'm pretty confident that what Boogie posts is probably on the money. If I'm reading Ship threads about the political situation in California, and Ruth offers comments, I pay attention. I do the same when Josephine and mousethief discuss Orthodoxy. Why? Because I've been reading these folks' comments for years; they're usually helpful / informative / accurate and so on.

    So Mark, if you're hankering after a place in the sun, my advice is: stay in your lane; stay on topic; help people understand your points, but recognize that your points and the known universe are not simultaneously contiguous.
  • GwaiGwai Epiphanies Host
    Also, who needs to be in the elite? I'm a host and have been for years but I regularly don't feel nearly as wise as many here and consequently don't post but so much. Like who cares to be one of the five best contributors to Purg (or wherever)? Whoever they are, I'm sure those most interesting people aren't trying to be the most popular as much as they are trying to say meaningful things and explain their thoughts.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    I see it that some people have a set of people they've known here for ages and feel warmly towards, and some people just click more with some people, and all this is quite natural. Often happens through banter, which I'm not really so good at, so I kind of feel a bit on the outside, but I'm okay with that. I don't think being part of an elite is an aspiration of mine - I think I'd find it weird. Same with being a frequent poster - which I am, and I kind of wish I wasn't. I post a lot because I like the site and the topics, I'm online a lot, and I'm not very good at being succinct. I actually tend to see it that the more established, longterm members generally post less often, because they've probably already said pretty much everything there is to say.
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    Of course there's a core group of posters, that's just the way human interactions work. Whenever you get a group there will always be those in the center and those on the fringes. It's just the way people act. But to say, as Mark Betts did, that here on the ship those in the center get preferential treatment, is not fair. The long time, better known posters are just as likely to get taken down for misbehavior as newbies, especially since the old timers should know better than to break rules.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    fineline wrote: »
    I actually tend to see it that the more established, longterm members generally post less often, because they've probably already said pretty much everything there is to say.
    :wink: Then some, including myself, would rarely post at all.
    It feels to me, that posting slowed down overall with the transition to the new ship. Several people did not bother with the transition, even.
  • lilbuddhalilbuddha Shipmate
    I think a thing that fosters the idea of "the Elite" is that some longtime posters have learned just how close to the edge of the rules they can sail before crossing into forbidden waters. And some people are simply better at wordcraft. In other words, one can write a post that might feel, like an insult or attack but it stays in boundary and the complainant mightn't understand the difference.
    The simple difference between 'Your argument is an idiot' and 'You are an idiot'.
  • finelinefineline Kerygmania Host
    Though in this case, both Martin and Mark broke the rules and they were both warned, and Mark didn't realise this from the wording, and thought it was just him getting a warning.
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