Trumpton - the rant thread

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  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    If you don't think the Free World has any meaning, ask a Uighur what they think it means, or anyone else in China when they are confident they won't be overheard by a party official.

    My country is doing some awful things, including imprisoning asylum seekers on two pacific islands for about 7 years now. But I and millions of other Australians can yell and protest and publish about it without any regard for our personal safety or fear of discrimination. We can even, through a quirk of the system, get a compassionate law passed against the will of the Government, to allow any sick prisoners to be treated in Australia. That won't last much longer, but it happened.

    So before despairing too much about the obvious faults of our various countries, have a look at the value of our freedom. Can any of you say that you wish you lived in a totalitarian or authoritarian country instead of a WEIRD country?

    I want freedom for every country, because freedom is the base upon which a just society can be built.

    Nicely put.

    From this side of the world, I am conscious of the appalling treatment of Asylum seekers in Australia, not least because of the idiots in the UK who score points by saying "Let's be more like Australia...."

    However your post makes the really good point about our freedoms: They are not a given. Which is why in the entire Western World (whatever that means) we really must stand up for these freedoms or they will be lost.

    This is about Trump
    This is about Brexit
    It is about the appalling state of our Justice system*
    It is about the NHS
    It is about our criminal Welfare system that abuses the most vulnerable in our society.

    We must use the freedoms to speak out that you so eloquently describe. Because if we don't, none of us will like where we end up.

    AFZ

    *I'm just reading the Secret Barrister. He makes a really good case for how good our judicial system can be and how the chronic underfunding upto 2010 meant it never lived up to its promise before the evil** decisions of the government since then has left it failing us all.

    **Yes, I do mean 'evil' - if you wish to argue we might need another thread but evil is so often banal. The underresourcing of the Criminal Justice System means that real people when caught up in it - be they victim or accused or whatever - are chewed up and spat out. Lives are destroyed because a cynical government decided it could cut the Dept for Justice's funding as much as it wanted and no-one would notice. It is terrifying how far we are from a just system as a result.
  • The "free world" was a concept put forth in the times of the Cold War. America is only leader of the free world insofar as they can do business and profit these days. Hence the non-free world in Latin America which has a long history of support for dictators, fomenting revolution, training militaries at the US Army School of the Americas to definately not support freedom. I don't think Iraq was led into freedom, nor Afghanistan, nor Syria, and neither will Iran be. It's nice that the leader of the free world is so cosy with Saudi Arabia which is so darn free.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »
    Meanwhile, in North Korea they've executed the people who organized the meeting between Kim Jong Un and Trump.

    Not all of them. Some have been sent to political prisoner camps or sentenced to forced labor. I'm guessing that in North Korea "forced labor" is a death sentence with an indeterminate date.

    I can't help but think that Trump is jealous of this.
  • edited June 2019
    This is how a leader of the free world thinks and speaks. https://www.dw.com/en/angela-merkel-tells-harvard-grads-to-tear-down-walls/a-48981123

    America is leader of other things.

  • The free world concept was developed in the cold war, but remains highly relevant. Its just that the USA is abusing its position of trust and acting unilaterally. I am sure all right-thinking people in the WEIRD world want the United States to take up the mantle of the conciliar head of the Free World, acting as leader but leading us in a consensus manner. It has the power and the capacity to lead us in this way, and to be a force for good in the world.

    None of those wars you talk about were about the liberation of those nations, and nor was Vietnam. You know what they were. You know the language of freedom was used to justify some, and you know that the leaders of the free world were bullshitting.

    But they chose to bullshit using the language of freedom and liberation from oppression because those ideas are powerful motivators. Those ideas are powerful motivators because they are true, and they speak to our hearts.

    Remember the ancient pig latin saying used by the Gracchi brothers as they sought political freedoms for Rome's plebians: Torres excretum mentum deludit (bull shit baffles brains). Don't let the bullshit of our leaders baffle your brains, like they baffled the brains of so many of our WEIRD compatriots.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    The free world concept was developed in the cold war, but remains highly relevant. Its just that the USA is abusing its position of trust and acting unilaterally. I am sure all right-thinking people in the WEIRD world want the United States to take up the mantle of the conciliar head of the Free World, acting as leader but leading us in a consensus manner. It has the power and the capacity to lead us in this way, and to be a force for good in the world.

    None of those wars you talk about were about the liberation of those nations, and nor was Vietnam. You know what they were. You know the language of freedom was used to justify some, and you know that the leaders of the free world were bullshitting.

    But they chose to bullshit using the language of freedom and liberation from oppression because those ideas are powerful motivators. Those ideas are powerful motivators because they are true, and they speak to our hearts.

    Remember the ancient pig latin saying used by the Gracchi brothers as they sought political freedoms for Rome's plebians: Torres excretum mentum deludit (bull shit baffles brains). Don't let the bullshit of our leaders baffle your brains, like they baffled the brains of so many of our WEIRD compatriots.

    Ooh, that's bad. Should be Tauri or Taurorum.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    edited June 2019
    And mentem or mentes.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    The free world concept was developed in the cold war, but remains highly relevant. Its just that the USA is abusing its position of trust and acting unilaterally. I am sure all right-thinking people in the WEIRD world want the United States to take up the mantle of the conciliar head of the Free World, acting as leader but leading us in a consensus manner. It has the power and the capacity to lead us in this way, and to be a force for good in the world.

    None of those wars you talk about were about the liberation of those nations, and nor was Vietnam. You know what they were. You know the language of freedom was used to justify some, and you know that the leaders of the free world were bullshitting.

    But they chose to bullshit using the language of freedom and liberation from oppression because those ideas are powerful motivators. Those ideas are powerful motivators because they are true, and they speak to our hearts.

    Remember the ancient pig latin saying used by the Gracchi brothers as they sought political freedoms for Rome's plebians: Torres excretum mentum deludit (bull shit baffles brains). Don't let the bullshit of our leaders baffle your brains, like they baffled the brains of so many of our WEIRD compatriots.

    Ooh, that's bad. Should be Tauri or Taurorum.

    Ahem... That's one of the sources of the phrase, "Stercus tauri". You can look it up.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    The free world concept was developed in the cold war, but remains highly relevant. Its just that the USA is abusing its position of trust and acting unilaterally. I am sure all right-thinking people in the WEIRD world want the United States to take up the mantle of the conciliar head of the Free World, acting as leader but leading us in a consensus manner. It has the power and the capacity to lead us in this way, and to be a force for good in the world.

    None of those wars you talk about were about the liberation of those nations, and nor was Vietnam. You know what they were. You know the language of freedom was used to justify some, and you know that the leaders of the free world were bullshitting.

    But they chose to bullshit using the language of freedom and liberation from oppression because those ideas are powerful motivators. Those ideas are powerful motivators because they are true, and they speak to our hearts.

    Remember the ancient pig latin saying used by the Gracchi brothers as they sought political freedoms for Rome's plebians: Torres excretum mentum deludit (bull shit baffles brains). Don't let the bullshit of our leaders baffle your brains, like they baffled the brains of so many of our WEIRD compatriots.

    Ooh, that's bad. Should be Tauri or Taurorum.

    Ahem... That's one of the sources of the phrase, "Stercus tauri". You can look it up.

    I had already translated it...
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Hey hey hey woah there cowboys. I did say it was pig latin :trollface:

    Alright alright, I will write it out a thousand times on a Roman administrative building in Jerusalem.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Meanwhile, may Angels and Ministers of Grace defend us poor Uklanders from The Madness Of The Orange Oaf (due to favour us with His Gracious and All-Saving Presence tomorrow).
    :cold_sweat:

    I can't find the link today, but IIRC yesterday BBC News told us that Trump encourages us to get out of the EU, and that he says Farage (!) is the man to lead us...to perdition? Or to some Utopian paradise that only The Orange Oaf, and Niggle the Garbage, can see?
    :rage:

    O, and just to confirm us of his Bonkersness, The Orange Oaf tells us that Bojo the Clown is a suitable next Prime Minister...
    :confounded:

    Truly, there is an alternative universe, and somehow, some of its denizens appear to have crossed into this one.

    Or something.


  • Good people have told him that the EU is full of Democrats and Mueller-types.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    I’m going on news blackout for three days from now - all I’m playing on the radio is music playlists, no news, no TV. I can’t look at that smug, fat orange face.

    😡😡😡
  • I am sure that he would love a tour of the Tower of London -- see how it's really done since he loves walls and locking people up. Then "Oops! We seem to have lost the key" as the door slams to whatever chamber he's gotten himself in.
  • We pre-emptively disavow him and all knowledge of and responsible for his actions.

    We will also be providing dessert to everyone in the UK for the next five years as a settlement for pain and suffering.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    And he'll be offended all over again, as Mr. Khan has given his permission to re-launch the baby-blimp.

    Sky News has the right idea ... :mrgreen:
  • I had a nap and woke from it with the musical number for Dumpy's visit. He sings "they love me, they love me", the chorus responds "we hate you, we hate you", Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage enter the stage and also sing "they love me", the 3 of them look at each other, and start singing "they love us", and then begin to sing "me me me", there's a punch up, and the chorus gets louder drowning then out. Putin comes to the stage and gives then a shove as the 3 fall off and he sings quietly as an aside to the audience, "they love me" and we understand the 3 of them love him.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Maybe we should give him a Hawawai phone as a gift.
  • That's a Chinese phone?
  • There's a better one, that's made on the banks of the Tyne.

    It's the Howay.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Will the Queen be well enough to receive him? Does she feel a diplomatic but royal dose of flu hitting her, on which is running through all the other royalty in the UK? She did do her duty with the Ceascescus, but Trump must be beyond this limit.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    He really is a bullying little shit isn't he? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48495899

  • He says BoJo is his friend, I'm not sure it's reciprocated. Cynically this could be BoJo distancing himself.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    He really is a bullying little shit isn't he? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48495899

    Indeed He is - but what a contrast to the gentle, dignified, Mr Khan...

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Am I oversensitive, or is making reference to the height of someone of Indian sub-continent origin inherently racist, given the stereotype of their being short?
  • Everything that Trump says is inherently racist and/or sexist.

    Mayor Bill de Blasio is 6'5" (1.96 m), but Trump hates him too. (I'm sure the fact that his wife is African American doesn't help any.)

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Am I oversensitive, or is making reference to the height of someone of Indian sub-continent origin inherently racist, given the stereotype of their being short?
    Perhaps, but because Mr Khan towers above trump in his decency, intelligence and leadership ability, I doubt anyone takes trump's pathetic insults seriously. He's becoming as tiresome as an old dog that stops to piss at every lamp post.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    tRump likes to use people’s appearance to insult them. It’s a sign of a bully and a person deeply insecure about their own appearance.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Boogie wrote: »
    deeply insecure about their own appearance.
    As well he should be. Judging from photos from years past, he wasn't bad looking in his youth. But like most people who don't allow themselves to age gracefully, he now looks like a caricature of himself.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    That's a Chinese phone?

    Yes and Trump thinks they are spying for the Chines government.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I notice that Viz' Victorian Dad (aka Rees Mogg) has weighed in on Trump's side.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    I see that the Horrible Little Brown Muslim Loser was (as one might expect) at a service in Southwark Cathedral this evening, marking the anniversary of the London Bridge terrorist attack and murders.

  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Am I oversensitive, or is making reference to the height of someone of Indian sub-continent origin inherently racist, given the stereotype of their being short?
    Perhaps, but because Mr Khan towers above trump in his decency, intelligence and leadership ability, I doubt anyone takes trump's pathetic insults seriously. He's becoming as tiresome as an old dog that stops to piss at every lamp post.

    This.

  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Becoming tiresome?
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Tweeting insults at the mayor of the capital city you're about to visit really is the ultimate in diplomacy, isn't it? What a monumental arse.

    I note from somewhere on the interweb that there wasn't a red carpet when he landed - maybe Stansted hasn't got one ... :mrgreen:
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    ... Mayor Bill de Blasio is 6'5" (1.96 m), but Trump hates him too ...
    He does seem to have a thing about height - isn't one of the reasons he's rude about Messrs. Obama and Trudeau that they're both taller* than he is?

    * and better looking ... :wink:
  • Melania's dress was awful and boring but at least it was formal. Ivanka dressed for some other event. And I have no idea why they bothered with a state dinner for a jerk who serves fast food. Railway bacon baps would have been more appropriate and more to his taste anyway.
  • Piglet wrote: »
    Tweeting insults at the mayor of the capital city you're about to visit really is the ultimate in diplomacy, isn't it? What a monumental arse.

    I note from somewhere on the interweb that there wasn't a red carpet when he landed - maybe Stansted hasn't got one ... :mrgreen:
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    ... Mayor Bill de Blasio is 6'5" (1.96 m), but Trump hates him too ...
    He does seem to have a thing about height - isn't one of the reasons he's rude about Messrs. Obama and Trudeau that they're both taller* than he is?

    * and better looking ... :wink:

    And a LOT more intelligent and personable.
    :smile:

  • I had a nap and woke from it with the musical number for Dumpy's visit. He sings "they love me, they love me", the chorus responds "we hate you, we hate you", Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage enter the stage and also sing "they love me", the 3 of them look at each other, and start singing "they love us", and then begin to sing "me me me", there's a punch up, and the chorus gets louder drowning then out. Putin comes to the stage and gives then a shove as the 3 fall off and he sings quietly as an aside to the audience, "they love me" and we understand the 3 of them love him.

    :lol: :love:

    Stay off the rich cheeses before bedtime NP :tongue:
  • One of the surreal things about these visits is that nothing happens, apart from lots of frocks and strained smiles. Nobody believes all the assurances of amity, although I suppose there may be discussions of future deals. I suppose Trump gets some good backgound shots of royalty, but what do the Brits get out of it?
  • F**k all, except for sickeningly large quantities of pix of the Great Orange Oaf - equally awful, whether grinning or frowning.

    Our poor Queen (God bless her) looked really fed up, stuck standing between the Oaf and Melancholia.
    :cry:
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Our poor Queen (God bless her) looked really fed up, stuck standing between the Oaf and Melancholia.

    Compare and contrast.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Hmm. There are other photos on that link, showing HMQ apparently laughing with the Oaf.

    OTOH, she may have just spotted the caterpillar in his salad...
    :flushed:

  • That's wonderful! Unfortunately, he probably saw only his name and took it as a great compliment.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    He is in meetings today. It also looks like he wants private meetings with half the government.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Hmm. There are other photos on that link, showing HMQ apparently laughing with the Oaf.

    "With" or "at"? It's an important distinction.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited June 2019
    Just so, hence my speculation about the caterpillar, though I think HMQ is far too polite to laugh in his face. Behind his back, perhaps.

    BTW, is there to be a YUGE and BIGLY parade to celebrate the Lord Protector of the World's visit to this humble appendage of His Empire?

    It's raining hard at the moment, hopefully in preparation...
    :trollface:
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Our poor Queen (God bless her) looked really fed up, stuck standing between the Oaf and Melancholia.

    Compare and contrast.

    Well, we can contrast, but there IS no comparison.
  • Just so, hence my speculation about the caterpillar, though I think HMQ is far too polite to laugh in his face. Behind his back, perhaps.

    I've heard that she does amazing impersonations -- THAT is one I'd love to see!
    :smiley:
  • jbohnjbohn Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »

    That is one overstuffed sausage. Wow...
This discussion has been closed.