Just why is it that Roman Catholics in the UK—and several other countries I can think of, for example Italy—dont like singing hymns?
I was at a well-attended RC mass in central Paris recently where they managed a splendid sound, accompanied by an acoustic guitar, so maybe its the organ that puts people off.
Just why is it that Roman Catholics in the UK—and several other countries I can think of, for example Italy—dont like singing hymns?
I was at a well-attended RC mass in central Paris recently where they managed a splendid sound, accompanied by an acoustic guitar, so maybe its the organ that puts people off.
I think it may have been the culture we were raised in. Pre-Vatican 2, people "heard" Mass and either sat there in a semi-daze or said their Rosaries while the priest and altar boys were "up there" doing their thing in Latin. A few of us dared to follow along in a missal, which would have had parallel Latin and English texts.
At our church back home, hymns during Low Mass were unheard of. Yes, we sang at the children's Mass, but the nuns would have made us sit in Sister Principal's pew if we didn't, which was a fate worse than death. Other than that, the only music we ever heard at Mass was at High Mass, and then it was by the choir -- and by the priests, if we were lucky enough to have a pastor and curates who could sing more or less on pitch (ours could, with the exception of one curate, who was otherwise a delightful man).
Devotions, benediction, novenas -- they were a different breed altogether. At our church we had a Tuesday evening devotion to St. Anthony, at which everyone sang "Come Holy Ghost" and "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" but nothing else. The little old Italian ladies had a Saturday morning devotion to Our Lady of Pompeii at which they sang hymns in Italian, primarily addressed to the Blessed Mother, while marching around the church behind their society's banner.
At benediction, everyone sang "O Salutaris Hostia" and "Tantum Ergo Sacramentum", of course. Novenas -- it depended upon the subject matter. But the hymns were always drawn from a small, prescribed set of Latin chants, syrupy 19th century Victorian panegyrics, or early 20th century schlock.
Vatican 2 changed everything. Brave attempts were launched to introduce the best of Luther, Wesley and the like, but organists weren't used to leading congregational singing and the people didn't take to such enthusiastic praise. The "Singing Nun" school arose -- vapid, tuneless ditties composed by well-meaning nuns, priests and religious brothers who were no match for well-schooled Protestant hymnodists.
Then enter the "folk Mass", stage right. The young crowd embraced it, but older folk who, if anything, were beginning to pine for the days of "O Salutaris Hostia" and "Mother Dear, O Pray For Me" were repelled by it.
Enter also the St. Louis Jesuit school, which has produced some robust, memorable music but which has also produced some highly forgettable stuff.
In short, the Catholic Church never encouraged congregational singing in the Pre-Vatican 2 days, and post-Vatican 2 attempts to change the culture simply did not succeed.
Except in those few parishes where it did. But remember, in the Catholic Church the pastor rules. A pastor who loves good music and works hard to encourage it in his church today, can tomorrow be replaced by one who doesn't really care whether the people sing or not.
But remember, in the Catholic Church the pastor rules. A pastor who loves good music and works hard to encourage it in his church today, can tomorrow be replaced by one who doesn't really care whether the people sing or not.
A parish that allows itself to be dictated to by its pastor needs to grow up!
[Edited your quote in previous comment to "get right to the meat"]
I don't know about over where you are, but in any Catholic church over here the pastor's word is law and no one dares say otherwise.
It varies. But here RC priests usually leave music to whatever resources there are in the parish. There are usually few and clergy are grateful for whatever there is... unless they are intent on plainsong and there is only one old man and his kazzoo to lead things.
Most clergy here only get very territorial when money is involved.
I checked out Why Catholics Cant Sing. Its a provocative and a times humorous read, but several of the author's attitudes have an unpleasant undertone. Among them: Irish-American Catholic culture seems to be always bad, popular culture is always to be resisted and of course Vatican II reform was the devils work. He's ventillating some real issues, but renewal of the liturgy is not as simple as he makes out. And Bob Dylan's heritage is Jewish, not Irish.
In my ideal church we would have polyphony, Messiaen AND You'll never Walk Alone—each in its appropriate moment.
In my ideal church we would have polyphony, Messiaen AND You'll never Walk Alone—each in its appropriate moment.
"You'll Never Walk Alone" is well written, inspirational, and worthy of being presented to the Lord in worship. Certainly not on the same par as "Shine Jesus Shine."
Comments
I was at a well-attended RC mass in central Paris recently where they managed a splendid sound, accompanied by an acoustic guitar, so maybe its the organ that puts people off.
We do at ours. The parishioners raise the roof.
At our church back home, hymns during Low Mass were unheard of. Yes, we sang at the children's Mass, but the nuns would have made us sit in Sister Principal's pew if we didn't, which was a fate worse than death. Other than that, the only music we ever heard at Mass was at High Mass, and then it was by the choir -- and by the priests, if we were lucky enough to have a pastor and curates who could sing more or less on pitch (ours could, with the exception of one curate, who was otherwise a delightful man).
Devotions, benediction, novenas -- they were a different breed altogether. At our church we had a Tuesday evening devotion to St. Anthony, at which everyone sang "Come Holy Ghost" and "Holy God, We Praise Thy Name" but nothing else. The little old Italian ladies had a Saturday morning devotion to Our Lady of Pompeii at which they sang hymns in Italian, primarily addressed to the Blessed Mother, while marching around the church behind their society's banner.
At benediction, everyone sang "O Salutaris Hostia" and "Tantum Ergo Sacramentum", of course. Novenas -- it depended upon the subject matter. But the hymns were always drawn from a small, prescribed set of Latin chants, syrupy 19th century Victorian panegyrics, or early 20th century schlock.
Vatican 2 changed everything. Brave attempts were launched to introduce the best of Luther, Wesley and the like, but organists weren't used to leading congregational singing and the people didn't take to such enthusiastic praise. The "Singing Nun" school arose -- vapid, tuneless ditties composed by well-meaning nuns, priests and religious brothers who were no match for well-schooled Protestant hymnodists.
Then enter the "folk Mass", stage right. The young crowd embraced it, but older folk who, if anything, were beginning to pine for the days of "O Salutaris Hostia" and "Mother Dear, O Pray For Me" were repelled by it.
Enter also the St. Louis Jesuit school, which has produced some robust, memorable music but which has also produced some highly forgettable stuff.
In short, the Catholic Church never encouraged congregational singing in the Pre-Vatican 2 days, and post-Vatican 2 attempts to change the culture simply did not succeed.
Except in those few parishes where it did. But remember, in the Catholic Church the pastor rules. A pastor who loves good music and works hard to encourage it in his church today, can tomorrow be replaced by one who doesn't really care whether the people sing or not.
An old MW report of mine, in which I mentioned the dire lack of singing at an RC Mass, was commented upon in an issue of The Tablet.
Clearly, my sage words have not been acted upon.
A parish that allows itself to be dictated to by its pastor needs to grow up!
I don't know about over where you are, but in any Catholic church over here the pastor's word is law and no one dares say otherwise.
It varies. But here RC priests usually leave music to whatever resources there are in the parish. There are usually few and clergy are grateful for whatever there is... unless they are intent on plainsong and there is only one old man and his kazzoo to lead things.
Most clergy here only get very territorial when money is involved.
In my ideal church we would have polyphony, Messiaen AND You'll never Walk Alone—each in its appropriate moment.