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Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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Comments

  • That sermon was a gong show. Anything can be a gong show if it's messed up and done badly.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Would 'a six' be a satisfactory equivalent from cricket, or perhaps 'a pavilion-smasher'?

    Memo to self - use more cricket phrases in future when posting on the Ship.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    Would 'a six' be a satisfactory equivalent from cricket, or perhaps 'a pavilion-smasher'?

    Memo to self - use more cricket phrases in future when posting on the Ship.

    Don't force it.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I meant "in the rough" or "the weeds" but "out of the park" refers to a home run in baseball terms.

    The equivalent of a 6 in cricket, ball hit over the boundary fence in the full. I have seen film of a ball hit not just over the boundary, but over the outside fence and into the street beyond in a match in an English country town or city. My recollection is of the batsman repeating the feat in the same over.

    Probably the famous occasion on which Gary Sobers hit six sixes in one over - playing for Glamorgan against Nottinghamshire at Swansea in 1968.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Thanks, that's it. That must be the greatest episode of batting.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    Memo to self - use more cricket phrases in future when posting on the Ship.

    I thought there was a rule against posting in foreign languages.
    :wink:

  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    @Pigwidgeon - quotes file! :mrgreen:
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    But what could be more English than cricket?
  • Baseball - It's mentioned in Jane Austen (Nothanger Abbey) and you can't get more English than that 😀
  • Interesting article about the origins of baseball (and cricket).
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Robertus L wrote: »
    Baseball - It's mentioned in Jane Austen (Nothanger Abbey) and you can't get more English than that 😀

    LOL. Cool!
  • Yep, Baseball, the American game, was a British import.

    I think Basketball is the only true American game.

    Prove me wrong. Change my mind.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Yep, Baseball, the American game, was a British import.

    I think Basketball is the only true American game.

    Prove me wrong. Change my mind.

    And basketball was invented out of whole cloth to give guys something to do indoors while they waited for the sun to come out again.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    LOL
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Robertus L wrote: »
    Baseball - It's mentioned in Jane Austen (Nothanger Abbey) and you can't get more English than that 😀
    Didn't know that. That's a bit of a googly.


  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Robertus L wrote: »
    Baseball - It's mentioned in Jane Austen (Nothanger Abbey) and you can't get more English than that 😀

    Do you mean Rounders?
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    No. It is one of Catherine's pastimes on account of which nobody would have supposed her born to be a heroine.
  • Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Yep, Baseball, the American game, was a British import.

    I think Basketball is the only true American game.

    Prove me wrong. Change my mind.

    And basketball was invented out of whole cloth to give guys something to do indoors while they waited for the sun to come out again.

    I'm not sure that basketball qualifies as "true American" seeing that it was invented and codified by a Canadian alumnus of McGill, James Naismith. :grin:
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Cathscats wrote: »
    Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.

    AIUI, the American things you describe came about gradually. So there might have been more in common, once upon a time.

    BTW: when this came up before, long ago, there was UK Shipmate opinion that baseball was descended from rounders, which was described as a children's version of cricket. With, ISTM, an implication that there's nothing much to baseball.



  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Cathscats wrote: »
    Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.

    AIUI, the American things you describe came about gradually. So there might have been more in common, once upon a time.

    BTW: when this came up before, long ago, there was UK Shipmate opinion that baseball was descended from rounders, which was described as a children's version of cricket. With, ISTM, an implication that there's nothing much to baseball.

    Not just a children's version. A girls' version. It was not only a condescending but also a very sexist comment.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Thx. Didn't remember that bit. :(
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    Golden Key wrote: »
    TBH, I don't understand (cross Pond) how anyone wields a seemingly unwieldy cricket bat--especially with such a short handle.

    And yes, I know it's used differently than in baseball.
    While on this side of The Pond many of us don't understand why you have grown men playing a version of a game that over here is played by girls, especially those under 12.

    As for a cricket bat being "unwieldy"!!! You have a large, flattish surface to hit a big, shiny red ball: as people on the West side of The Pond might say "what's not to like?" It certainly beats trying to hit a small, grey ball with a round, elongated wooden milk bottle such as this.

    @Golden Key @mousethief I think this may be what you referred to? As you can see, there is no suggestion that either baseball or rounders is any "version" of cricket, rather an alternative.

    FWIW on the rare occasions when I've been press-ganged into playing rounders I've made a complete horlicks of it.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    mousethief wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Cathscats wrote: »
    Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.

    AIUI, the American things you describe came about gradually. So there might have been more in common, once upon a time.

    BTW: when this came up before, long ago, there was UK Shipmate opinion that baseball was descended from rounders, which was described as a children's version of cricket. With, ISTM, an implication that there's nothing much to baseball.

    Not just a children's version. A girls' version. It was not only a condescending but also a very sexist comment.

    Possibly, but it's an accurate summary of how baseball is regarded over here.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Cathscats wrote: »
    Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.

    AIUI, the American things you describe came about gradually. So there might have been more in common, once upon a time.

    BTW: when this came up before, long ago, there was UK Shipmate opinion that baseball was descended from rounders, which was described as a children's version of cricket. With, ISTM, an implication that there's nothing much to baseball.

    Not just a children's version. A girls' version. It was not only a condescending but also a very sexist comment.

    Possibly, but it's an accurate summary of how baseball is regarded over here.
    I think maybe maybe it’s time for me to watch A League of Their Own again.
  • Lacrosse was originated by Native Americans, possibly as early as 1100 AD (or CE).
  • Cathscats wrote: »
    Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.

    No sports described by early C19 writers are like their early C21 versions. Sports weren't codified until the late C19. It's probably misleading to say that baseball is derived from rounders: they were codified separately from a range of existing games. In fact, sports continue to evolve. I can't talk about baseball, but football (the scoocer version) has recently introduced new rules for a video assistant referee ( technological advances) and about heading the ball (medical advances). Rugby Union changes its rules on an annual basis, and amateur boxing has changed the rules on head guards that I don't think I could tell you the current rules.

    In this regard sports are like language. They did not originate in one place at one time, rather, they evolve to meet the needs of the societies and cultures that create them.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    Tell me about rule changes. I never got over the changes in netball. (Like basketball, but outdoors, played by girls because designed for girls by the redoubtable Madame Osterberg, founder of a PE teacher training college in Dartford, back in the early part of the last century. She supported gymslips to play netball in, and introduced Swedish drill as well. Wonderful woman by all accounts, devoted to girls' education, but destroyer of my attachment to PE.) I had just about got my primary agemind around the places that different players were allowed to go to on the court - I found this very difficult anyway, even under Osterberg rules - when somebody somewhere changed all the names of the positions, and the permitted parts of the court. I could never, even when teaching, get round this. (I was useless at Swedish drill as well - long fly over the vaulting horse AArgh.)
  • Penny S wrote: »
    Tell me about rule changes. I never got over the changes in netball. (Like basketball, but outdoors, played by girls because designed for girls by the redoubtable Madame Osterberg, founder of a PE teacher training college in Dartford, back in the early part of the last century. She supported gymslips to play netball in, and introduced Swedish drill as well. Wonderful woman by all accounts, devoted to girls' education, but destroyer of my attachment to PE.) I had just about got my primary agemind around the places that different players were allowed to go to on the court - I found this very difficult anyway, even under Osterberg rules - when somebody somewhere changed all the names of the positions, and the permitted parts of the court. I could never, even when teaching, get round this. (I was useless at Swedish drill as well - long fly over the vaulting horse AArgh.)

    I believe when I was in high school, the girls played this form of basketball. I remember thinking it was a complicated game.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    I believe when I was in high school, the girls played this form of basketball. I remember thinking it was a complicated game.

    Shortly after my school went mixed, a boys' basketball team challenged the girls' netball team to a game of netball. The boys were convinced that they would wipe the floor with the girls.

    They were slaughtered. The boys kept trying to pay basketball, so as soon as one of them got the ball, he'd try to dribble, or do something else illegal, the whistle would go, and the girls would get the ball back.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Cathscats wrote: »
    Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.

    AIUI, the American things you describe came about gradually. So there might have been more in common, once upon a time.

    BTW: when this came up before, long ago, there was UK Shipmate opinion that baseball was descended from rounders, which was described as a children's version of cricket. With, ISTM, an implication that there's nothing much to baseball.

    Not just a children's version. A girls' version. It was not only a condescending but also a very sexist comment.

    Possibly, but it's an accurate summary of how baseball is regarded over here.

    The whole country is sexist? Wait, don't answer that.
  • Netball - rules clearly written by someone into BDSM. Rounders and Baseball - how anyone hits a ball with a round bat, especially with any control of where the ball goes, is completely beyond me.
  • As with most school sports, watching Netball when high level teams are shown on TV is quite a revelation, it's amazing how much they can hustle within the rules. I've watched high level lacrosse as well and the tempo on that is scary.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    I believe when I was in high school, the girls played this form of basketball. I remember thinking it was a complicated game.

    Shortly after my school went mixed, a boys' basketball team challenged the girls' netball team to a game of netball. The boys were convinced that they would wipe the floor with the girls.

    They were slaughtered. The boys kept trying to pay basketball, so as soon as one of them got the ball, he'd try to dribble, or do something else illegal, the whistle would go, and the girls would get the ball back.

    We did the same. Girls had one extra player then boys. Boys could not believe the rules girls had to play by. Girls won.

  • I still have nightmares of the (field) hockey match we played against a sister school: not only did we get hammered but most of us got beaten up as well :grimace:
  • When my youngest son was in middle school, the community could not field a female soccer team, so the soccer team was mixed. When the team went up against some all-male clubs the girls got pretty hammered. One day, after a game, the girls were about to give up, but the coach encouraged them to stay with it because if they could survive the middle school competition against the boys they would be that much tougher in high school competition on an all-female team, which was true. The six girls that had been on the middle school team all went on to play college-level soccer after they completed high school.
  • When I was training to be a Physical Education teacher we were taught Lacrosse - none of us had played before and our skills were minimal. The only competitive matches we could play were against the Under 12 teams of local private schools for girls. We got absolutely hammered by the Roedean team -they were really brutal!
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    mousethief wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Cathscats wrote: »
    Yes but back then it was almost certainly what we now call rounders - and certainly nothing much like the American game with special bats and balls and a pitcher's mound and protective clothing and a stadium etc. The similarities were that you would hit a ball (possibly with a bat, maybe with your hand) and run to various bases.

    AIUI, the American things you describe came about gradually. So there might have been more in common, once upon a time.

    BTW: when this came up before, long ago, there was UK Shipmate opinion that baseball was descended from rounders, which was described as a children's version of cricket. With, ISTM, an implication that there's nothing much to baseball.

    Not just a children's version. A girls' version. It was not only a condescending but also a very sexist comment.

    Possibly, but it's an accurate summary of how baseball is regarded over here.

    The whole country is sexist? Wait, don't answer that.

    America-phobic possibly.

    @Gramps49, when you say, "the girls got hammered," that suggests they were badly drunk to Brit ears!
  • By 'hammered' I meant the schoolgirls won by an embarrassingly huge margin!
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    "Got hammered" sounds like "badly drunk" to my American ears, too.
  • Diomedes wrote: »
    When I was training to be a Physical Education teacher we were taught Lacrosse - none of us had played before and our skills were minimal. The only competitive matches we could play were against the Under 12 teams of local private schools for girls. We got absolutely hammered by the Roedean team -they were really brutal!

    Not surprising since the original UK women's lacrosse organisation in the UK was founded by a Rodean OG. It always amused me that it was the "nicer" girls' schools that played lacrosse, inflicting injury on a scale unknown on the hockey field.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    From Thesaurus.com
    beat up
    [ beet-uhp ]
    SEE DEFINITION OF beat up
    verb assault

    Synonyms for beat up
    batter
    attack
    do over
    hammer
    knock around
    pulverize
    thrash

    Other people were saying they got hammered when they played against female teams.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Sorry @Gramps49, I knew what you meant. But, given this is a thread about language rather than games, I didn't know if "hammered" could mean "drunk" in the States.
  • It's funny how words can have more than one meaning, isn't it?
  • The discussion of lacrosse origins as by "native Americans" leads to how indigenous people are named as a group. In Canada you'd never hear "native Canadian". Usually "first nations" or "indigenous" unless being more specific about the group when they'd be named.

    Incidentally lacrosse is popular here. I played goal back when. There's a professional team here.
  • The discussion of lacrosse origins as by "native Americans" leads to how indigenous people are named as a group. In Canada you'd never hear "native Canadian". Usually "first nations" or "indigenous" unless being more specific about the group when they'd be named.

    Incidentally lacrosse is popular here. I played goal back when. There's a professional team here.

    I prefer First Nations, myself. Incidentally, it seems LaCrosse probably started on the Canadian Plains around 1100 CE.
  • IMHO "native Americans" is a reference to the continent.
  • The term "native American" will make people wince where I live. It's not terrible, but would be perceived negatively.
  • Certainly. I was explaining origin, not recommending you adopt the term.
  • For the further enlightenment of North American shipmates, 'That went well, didn't it?' would be what many Brits would want to say to our esteemed Prime Minister, following his recent government re-shuffle, which resulted in the resignation of his Chancellor (Secretary of the Treasury) and the dismissal of most of the competent members of his cabinet, while concentrating effective political power in the hands of his Policital Adviser (Chief of Staff) and leading candidate for the role of Prince of Darkness, Dominic Cummings. In effect, he has Trumped himself. Sorry if I have strayed into Hell territory.
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