Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

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Comments

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »

    Just for the record, that article does not make sense. I am not saying the BBC are lying here - I think they are repeating the Downing Street statement but it does not quite add up...

    As per normal.

    AFZ

    Perhaps you could clarify your comment "does not quite add up".
  • No it doesn’t, I think he is seriously ill.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »

    Just for the record, that article does not make sense. I am not saying the BBC are lying here - I think they are repeating the Downing Street statement but it does not quite add up...

    As per normal.

    AFZ

    Perhaps you could clarify your comment "does not quite add up".

    I think he means that he wouldn't be going into hospital simply for more tests.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Gee D wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »

    Just for the record, that article does not make sense. I am not saying the BBC are lying here - I think they are repeating the Downing Street statement but it does not quite add up...

    As per normal.

    AFZ

    Perhaps you could clarify your comment "does not quite add up".

    I think he means that he wouldn't be going into hospital simply for more tests.

    Not sure - perhaps you and I would go for the tests and come straight back home, although at the moment I'd find that a bit odd.
  • He’s already been tested for Coronavirus, so what are these tests for?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    They may be trying to work out his medication. He's probably had so much penicillin for other infections that it's no longer effective on him.
  • Penicillin is not effective on viruses.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    He’s already been tested for Coronavirus, so what are these tests for?

    My s would be, to see if he has pneumonia. So maybe blood tests and chest xray.

    What is weird about that - given this is being badged as routine, is the apparent need for him to *stay* in the hospital rather than be tested and leave.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Penicillin is not effective on viruses.

    I was being a bit naughty about his previous need for penicillin.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Penicillin is not effective on viruses.

    I was being a bit naughty about his previous need for penicillin.

    Indeed.

    Antibiotics is an important part of treatment of Covid-19 because secondary bacteria pneumonia is a big problem.

    My point earlier is there isn't really any such thing as 'routine tests' in this context. It is impossible to know how unwell he is. The choice of words are designed to minimise concern. Whether they are an accurate reflection of his status is impossible to tell.

    AFZ
  • What is weird about that - given this is being badged as routine, is the apparent need for him to *stay* in the hospital rather than be tested and leave.
    "Observation" is a form of testing, having someone medically qualified make regular checks on his condition. It's a regular part of hospital testing in my limited experience - when my daughter had a very bad asthma attack and was rushed into hospital by ambulance the tests were completed within little over an hour after they'd stabilised breathing, but they kept her in for three days so that they could keep an eye on her, make sure the prescription was right etc.

  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    Indeed, but it doesn’t square with a ‘mild’ problem - and asthma attack requiring emergency support, for example, is not a mild problem.

    Though I suppose routine doesn’t necessarily equal ‘of minor importance’.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I don't think you can reasonably expect the media to be giving, or getting, accurate hour by hour progress reports on the PM's health.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    I don’t - but I also don’t believe the presentation over the last week that he is basically fine and full steam ahead at running the country.

    If he is ill enough to require this level of medical care, he should be off sick with another member of the cabinet acting up into his role - and that fact should be communicated clearly.

    Both in order for government to be managed effectively, and for the sake of his own health.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    I see what you mean. It's a difficult call though. As ever, political and probably even economic considerations are going to factor into what's communicated, as well as questions of pure efficiency. Besides, his prognosis is probably unclear, so they're probably not sure whether they should be delegating or not at this point. Also not sure who has the leadership ability to make such tough calls right now given the allegedly deleterious climate in the cabinet and relations with Whitehall.
  • {Cross-pond.}

    For what it's worth: There was a brief mention Sunday on a local NPR station. (Not sure which program.)

    IIRC, they said he was in "serious" condition.
  • Obviously, the statements coming from No. 10 are a lie, because they don't know how to do anything else.

    It's equally obvious that it's pointless trying to ascertain the truth. Raab is in charge for now, and that's that.
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    Obviously, the statements coming from No. 10 are a lie, because they don't know how to do anything else.

    It's equally obvious that it's pointless trying to ascertain the truth. Raab is in charge for now, and that's that.

    What bothers me most is that Raab probably is an improvement.

    Lazy
    Poor on detail
    Incompetent

    Tick for all three, just like his erstwhile boss. Conversely I think Raab lacks Johnson's hubris...

    Oh for competent government...
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate


    Oh for competent government...
    Well at last, after 5 wasted years, it looks as though the opposition have now at least got someone in charge who just might offer this.

  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    My money is on Gove.
  • anoesisanoesis Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    My money is on Gove.
    My money is on at least a decade of people being more, rather than less, interested in what those experts he cares so little for think - which may be the only good thing to come out of this whole damn crisis...
  • AFZ--

    {Cross-pond.}

    Re competent gov't:

    If you find one, do please send us some, or at least tell us where you got it.

    Thx. ;)
  • I suspect the PM is seriously ill and that any recovery, if it comes, will take a long time.
  • So why are we not being told, I wonder?

    Do the tories really think that, without their Glorious Leader in charge, the whole fabric of society will crumble into dust and ashes (if it hasn't already, under their Glorious Leadership)?

    I don't wish The Mad Mophead ill, but I do wish he'd take some time off sick - for our sake, as well as for his own. Not to mention for the sake of Carrie, and her Bump...
  • So why are we not being told, I wonder?

    Do the tories really think that, without their Glorious Leader in charge, the whole fabric of society will crumble into dust and ashes (if it hasn't already, under their Glorious Leadership)?

    I don't wish The Mad Mophead ill, but I do wish he'd take some time off sick - for our sake, as well as for his own. Not to mention for the sake of Carrie, and her Bump...

    Indeed. He can take as long off as he likes. 5 years would be fine.
  • Yes, that would do nicely. Good thought!
    :wink:
  • Here in the U.S., we don't have to worry about Trump coming down with Covid-19. It only affects humans.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate

    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Here in the U.S., we don't have to worry about Trump coming down with Covid-19. It only affects humans.

    And tigers according to the news this morning. Donny would like to be seen as a tiger
  • Bats. He's certainly bats.
  • But he's the right colour (or one of them) to be a tiger...

    Meanwhile, the Great Orange God-Emperor has sent his Imperial Blessings to our dear Leader.

    So we'll be all right.

    Soon.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Raab hasn't spoken to him since Saturday, he has admitted. Interesting.
  • Has anyone (apart from the doctors & nurses) spoken to him since Saturday?

    He could be dead by now, for all we know... :flushed:
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    The government hid the fact that Churchill had a stroke, even from some of the cabinet ...
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    I think the bigger concern is not being clear on who is actually running the country at any given point in time.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    Yes. I suppose it's Raab, God help us all, but enquiring minds need to know.
  • The PM is now in intensive care, Dominic Raab is in charge - this is fubar.
  • anoesisanoesis Shipmate
    In intensive care as a precaution, according to the press release I read. What nonsense - you don't put people in intensive care on a precautionary basis!
  • BBC is going with, ‘as a precaution in case he needs ventilation’ - he’s critically ill if he is in an ICU, there’s no way they’d put him there otherwise. If necessary, and he didn’t need ICU, they could have had him in a a side room with 1to1 staffing at all times, clearly that was not enough.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    He's in intensive care now. The previous statement was an understatement. Intensive care is probably respirator territory.
  • Presumably your general health affects how well you cope with the virus. He's never looked particularly well to me.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    He's in intensive care now. The previous statement was an understatement. Intensive care is probably respirator territory.

    I think you mean ventilator, and yes. From what I'm reading it means he either needs ventilating now or is expected to at some point overnight.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Yes. I suppose it's Raab, God help us all, but enquiring minds need to know.

    According to the BBC:
    Mr Johnson has asked Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab to deputise "where necessary", the spokesman added.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    Does this mean there is no formal order of succession in UK government? What would happen if a PM were to be suddenly incapacitated - so suddenly that they didn't have time to issue any instructions, let alone the above vague one? Do all the flunkies look at each other wondering who to pass the nuclear football (or nearest equivalent) to?
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Does this mean there is no formal order of succession in UK government? What would happen if a PM were to be suddenly incapacitated - so suddenly that they didn't have time to issue any instructions, let alone the above vague one? Do all the flunkies look at each other wondering who to pass the nuclear football (or nearest equivalent) to?

    I gather that you're right - there is no formal order of succession for Prime Ministers. Perhaps because the PM is whoever Her Majesty appoints, and if one can't serve, she appoints a new one. So it's not like a republic where you need an order of succession or there's no way of getting a new president short of an election - all the UK needs is for the monarch to point at someone (and there is a well-known order of succession for the monarchy).
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Does this mean there is no formal order of succession in UK government? What would happen if a PM were to be suddenly incapacitated - so suddenly that they didn't have time to issue any instructions, let alone the above vague one?

    Unlike the British monarchy, as far as I understand it there is no formal line of succession for the Prime Minister.
    Successive prime ministers have resisted pressure to set out a formal procedure for what happens if someone else is required to take over.

    On the other hand since the Prime Minister is chosen by the majority party it seems to this non-British person that they could simply choose someone else in such a circumstance.
  • tessaBtessaB Shipmate
    There is an old joke about a husband telling his wife (who was away) that her bird had died. She told him off for being so abrupt and said he should have led up to it gradually, the bird had got out, was on the roof and so on. A couple of days later the husband phoned her to say that her mother had got out and was on the roof.
    A terrible joke, but looking at the BBC reports of Boris, my husband remarked 'I think Boris is on the roof'.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Does this mean there is no formal order of succession in UK government? What would happen if a PM were to be suddenly incapacitated - so suddenly that they didn't have time to issue any instructions, let alone the above vague one?

    Unlike the British monarchy, as far as I understand it there is no formal line of succession for the Prime Minister.
    Successive prime ministers have resisted pressure to set out a formal procedure for what happens if someone else is required to take over.

    On the other hand since the Prime Minister is chosen by the majority party it seems to this non-British person that they could simply choose someone else in such a circumstance.

    I think, given that for the last 40 years our PMs have been tories (for whom backstabbing is taught at Eton and/or the Oxford Union) or Tony Blair (who was terrified of Gordon Brown's shadow), there is an understandable fear that if there is a named successor then there is an added incentive for someone to off the incumbent. If chaos is likely to ensue and no-one can be sure of coming out on top there's that bit less risk to the PM.
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Admin
    edited April 2020
    Madge will give the nod to Demonic "I don't believe in human rights" Raab as caretaker, and the Tory MPs will pick a new leader for us.
  • The local news in Canada has the British PM Johnson in intensive care.
    This is very serious. Regardless of anyone's opinion of him, him not taking the virus seriously, this is very serious for him and his family. The general odds if intubated are 50/50.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Does this mean there is no formal order of succession in UK government? What would happen if a PM were to be suddenly incapacitated - so suddenly that they didn't have time to issue any instructions, let alone the above vague one? Do all the flunkies look at each other wondering who to pass the nuclear football (or nearest equivalent) to?

    No formal succession even when there is a cabinet member with the title of Deputy PM.

    If a situation arises where a PM is long-term incapacitated there are two routes around it: either the governing party elects a new leader (which would be permanent) or the sovereign invites someone- usually the deputy party leader - to be PM and form their own administration.

    Currently there is neither Deputy PM nor Deputy Leader of the Conservative Party: technically the next in line is Leader of the House of Commons which is Jacob Rees Mogg :grimace:
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