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Purgatory: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Yeah, but if his support is whittled down to them, the election will be a walkover.

    Probably. Unless he can work some kind of electoral college magic.

  • W HyattW Hyatt Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Vanity Fair published an article recently about the Jared Kushner directed group trying to come up with a federal testing plan.

    ...
    ...

    Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert.

    That logic may have swayed Kushner. “It was very clear that Jared was ultimately the decision maker as to what [plan] was going to come out,” the expert said.

    So if this article is correct, the Trump administration* decided to ignore COVID-19 and sabotage testing because the virus was killing all the "right people".

    The article has been edited to include pro forma denials by White House spokesperson and serial fabulist Kayleigh McEnany.

    I'm x-posting this over in Hell because the U.S. government consigning its own citizens to death and suffering for political advantage seems like it might merit some strong language and colorful responses.

    I'd say this is in contention for one of the most damning reports yet about the administration*. But at the same time, I'd almost be surprised to find out that they hadn't made their decisions based on some similar calculations.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    C'mon Gramps. This is the President who thought a major US city in the midwest was in another state. It is totally believable that he thought the Stones were from New England.

    I don't think it entered his head to consider where they were from, seriously. "Un-American" to him means "bad and resists what I want." He's lost sight of the geographical reference, if indeed he ever had that connection. I would have no trouble believing it if you told me that he'd tried to compliment Putin by calling him a "real American guy."

    The fact that we find it laughable does NOT mean we recognized that it is factually untrue. If you'd said it of Obama, we'd recognize that. But Trump routinely turns reality into a pretzel. Among a million pretzels, spotting the fake is pretty much impossible.

  • Having nowhere else to put this. Trump's younger brother, Dennis, has died. Trump had called Dennis his best (and probably only) friend. Where was Trump when he was told of his brother's death? If you guessed on a golf course, you are right.

    So much for family loyalty. Someone's blood is not as thick as water.

    Condolences to the (real) family of Dennis.
  • Being fair about this, it is not easy to tell exactly when someone will take their last breath, esp. if they've been sick for months. And my guess would be that for Trump, golfing IS how he copes with bad feelings.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Golf is great for relaxing and de-stressing if you don't care about your scorecard. I'm not going to trash Trump over his brother's death. All I do is fantasise about him having a catastrophic stroke and existing in a state of conscious death. But I do it for the right reasons. :wink:
  • I am going to correct myself. The name of the brother was Robert S.Trump, not Dennis. He apparently had a recent fall and had some brain bleeds. He had been on a blood thinner for some time.

    Donald saw him on Friday.
    On Saturday, Donald called the hospital to see how Dennis was doing. He called from his New Jersey Golf Club.
    Robert died Sunday morning. Don was golfing.

    Now, it would seem to me, if Donald called Saturday and was told Robert was failing, why would Don be on the fairway the next morning?

    I admit this is speculation on my part.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Not everybody can take being at the bedside. People react differently to bereavement, even asshole presidents. But surely you know this. I can't complain about Trump hatred getting the better of us. See previous post.
  • You don't always get told "he's failing." They told me my father was recovering surprisingly well, which is why I was still curling my hair when he died.

    It's not an easy thing to predict, much of the time,
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    And T may simply not be able to deal with that kind of thing,
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    So the U.S. Senate released Volume Five [PDF] of their (heavily redacted) report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. For those who don't have time to wade through nearly a thousand pages of report, some of the more interesting points are summarized by this Twitter thread. Some bits that caught my eye:
    • [ Konstantin ] "Kilimnik is a Russian intelligence officer." That's a direct quote from the report. Yeah, we all pretty much worked from that assumption but the Senate is willing to state it baldly in the unredacted part of its report. For those who don't remember, he's the one who had a lot of contact with Trump campaign manager (and current federal inmate) Paul Manafort 35207-016, including one incident where Manafort shared Trump campaign internal data with Kilimnik.
    • Kilimnik may have been connected with the GRU hack-and-release operation against the DNC.
    • Contrary to Wikileaks' assertions, there is significant evidence that they were knowingly working with Russian government officials.
    • Michael Cohen 86067-054 discussed the possibility of a presidential pardon several times with Jay Sekulow (Trump's personal attorney) and Cohen's understanding was that such discussions originated with Trump.
    • On the day of the release of the Access Hollywood tape, Roger Stone told Jerome Corsi to "drop the Posdesta emails". Shortly thereafter, Wikileaks published hacked DNC emails from (among others) John Podesta.

    In conclusion, this is all perfectly normal and anyone who says otherwise is fake news. [/sarcasm]
  • love the prison numbers. If only there was a number for the bastard Stone.
  • To be fair to Trump, when my mother was dying I asked the rather experienced nurses how long did they think that she might last. Perhaps as long as three or four days. She was dead 12 hours later.
  • My condolences, but how could they answer with absolute certainty a question like that?

    Meanwhile, you'll note that you-know-who is busy making arrangements for his brother, resting in the bosom of his family and giving them comfort, being there at this sad time . . . NOT!
  • Oh, they couldn't, and said as much. My point is merely that Robert Trump's team may have said something that was open to interpretation and Donald zigged when he should have zagged. Yes, I am being charitable.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    T has publicly floated the idea of holding a memorial for his brother at the White House on Friday. Dunno whether that's going forward, or how the rest of the family feels.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    I visited my grandfather in hospital, and asked if he was dying. I was told that he wasn't. I phoned my father and aunt to come ASAP (both lived a couple of hours from the hospital). My father came. My aunt checked with the hospital and was told that he was not dying, and that I had been told he was not dying.

    He died that evening.

    In fairness, looking at his charts he was still doing well, but I knew my grandfather, I could see that the light had gone out of his eyes, and that the end was near.
  • Graven ImageGraven Image Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    I do not believe we have any say in how another person deals with the death of a loved one or how they show grief. IMHO it really is none of our business.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Unless Trump decides to make political capital out of it. I would not put it past him
  • On Robert Trump
    He was such a great guy because he was not jealous of my greatness.
    (DT)

    Trump is now telling people to not by Goodyear Tires because the company will not allow their employees to wear political attire like his MAGA hats. Problem is Goodyear is based in Tupelo, OH. One of the critical swing states DT would need to win And Goodyear makes the tires that the presidential limousine uses exclusively.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Wonder if the union workers at Goodyear are Teamsters? The Teamsters Union has already endorsed Biden.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Trump is now telling people to not by Goodyear Tires because the company will not allow their employees to wear political attire like his MAGA hats. Problem is Goodyear is based in Tupelo, OH.
    I think you mean Akron, Ohio.

  • Goodyear used to be headquartered in Arizona. There is a city named Goodyear where the plant and its cotton plantations once stood. I believe ties and memories are still strong.
  • Twitter going potty, or the lefty part of it, as Steve Bannon is arrested for fraud over Trumps wall, or rather, a "build the wall campaign". Expect Trump to state, "I didn't know him very well".
  • PS, Bannon was apparently arrested by agents of US Postal Service. Oh irony, shall I fly to thee on wings of hazy gauze?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Twitter going potty, or the lefty part of it, as Steve Bannon is arrested for fraud over Trumps wall, or rather, a "build the wall campaign".

    From the SDNY website:
    Leaders Of ‘We Build The Wall’ Online Fundraising Campaign Charged With Defrauding Hundreds Of Thousands Of Donors
    ·
    Brian Kolfage, Stephen Bannon, and Two Others Alleged to Have Funneled Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars From the Organization to Kolfage; All Four Defendants Allegedly Profited From Their Roles in the Scheme

    Audrey Strauss, the Acting United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and Philip R. Bartlett, Inspector-in-Charge of the New York Field Office of the United States Postal Inspection Service (“USPIS”), announced the unsealing of an indictment charging BRIAN KOLFAGE, STEPHEN BANNON, ANDREW BADOLATO, and TIMOTHY SHEA for their roles in defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors in connection with an online crowdfunding campaign known as “We Build the Wall” that raised more than $25 million. The defendants were arrested this morning.

    <snip>

    Acting U.S. Attorney Audrey Strauss said: “As alleged, the defendants defrauded hundreds of thousands of donors, capitalizing on their interest in funding a border wall to raise millions of dollars, under the false pretense that all of that money would be spent on construction. While repeatedly assuring donors that Brian Kolfage, the founder and public face of We Build the Wall, would not be paid a cent, the defendants secretly schemed to pass hundreds of thousands of dollars to Kolfage, which he used to fund his lavish lifestyle. We thank the USPIS for their partnership in investigating this case, and we remain dedicated to rooting out and prosecuting fraud wherever we find it.”

    You can find more details and the charging documents at the link, for those who are interested.
    Expect Trump to state, "I didn't know him very well".

    And that he's shocked to learn that there's gambling grifting going on here.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Expect Trump to state, "I didn't know him very well".

    And here it is:
    President Donald Trump said on Thursday he feels “very badly” about the arrest of his former close adviser Steve Bannon but knows nothing about the fundraising organization involved in the federal criminal case.

    “I do think it’s a sad event,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office. “I haven’t dealt with him at all now for years, literally years.”

    Bannon, an architect of the nationalist populism that has defined Trump’s presidency, has been charged with defrauding Trump supporters in a campaign to help build the president’s signature wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.

    “I feel very badly. I haven’t been dealing with him for a long period of time,” Trump said.

    <snip>

    “I know nothing about the project other than I didn’t like, when I read about it, I didn’t like it. I said, ‘This is for government, this isn’t for private people,’ and it sounded to me like showboating,” Trump said.

    The Republican president also told reporters that he did not know the three charged along with Bannon and did not believe he had ever met them.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    You know, I gather that T dealt (or had to deal with) The Mob when he was doing real estate development in New York. (From what I've heard, it's a necessary part of the process.)

    I wonder what they think of all his crimes and machinations?
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    You know, I gather that T dealt (or had to deal with) The Mob when he was doing real estate development in New York. (From what I've heard, it's a necessary part of the process.)

    I wonder what they think of all his crimes and machinations?

    They admire him for getting away with it so brazenly, I imagine.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    You know, I gather that T dealt (or had to deal with) The Mob when he was doing real estate development in New York. (From what I've heard, it's a necessary part of the process.)

    An Atlantic City casino owner with ties to the Mob? Unprecedented!?!

    An interesting connection in this project/alleged scam has emerged.
    So far, We Build the Wall and private contractor Tommy Fisher have put up four miles of private border fence in New Mexico and Texas. That might not seem like a lot, but the slow-going hasn’t tempered their forecasts for 2020.

    “We can build 200 miles privately right now in the State of Texas if the president gives us the green light,” Kolfage recently told Fox News.

    In quieter moments, Kolfage acknowledges that he’d need more than just a green light. He’d also need greenbacks — billions of dollars in government funding to make Trump’s wall happen. Kolfage’s organization, which has raised more than $25 million in online donations over the past year, has already spent nearly half their nest egg, he said.

    “By the end of 2020, we could be looking at close to 10 miles [of new border wall] with what we have in the bank,” Kolfage said. Yet even that could be a stretch; the first 4 miles of private wall cost Kolfage and Fisher more than $50 million, most of which was fronted by Fisher.

    So who is the very generous Tommy Fisher? Well . . .
    President Trump has personally and repeatedly urged the head of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to award a border wall contract to a North Dakota construction firm whose top executive is a GOP donor and frequent guest on Fox News, according to four administration officials.

    In phone calls, White House meetings and conversations aboard Air Force One during the past several months, Trump has aggressively pushed Dickinson, N.D.-based Fisher Industries to Department of Homeland Security leaders and Lt. Gen. Todd Semonite, the commanding general of the Army Corps, according to the administration officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal discussions. The push for a specific company has alarmed military commanders and DHS officials.

    <snip>

    Even as Trump pushes for his firm, Fisher already has started building a section of fencing in Sunland Park, N.M. We Build the Wall, a nonprofit that includes prominent conservatives who support the president — its associates and advisory board include former White House adviser Stephen K. Bannon, Blackwater USA founder Erik Prince, ex-congressman Tom Tancredo and former Kansas secretary of state Kris Kobach — has guided an effort to build portions of the border barrier on private land with private funds.

    Kris Kobach is also the general counsel for We Build The Wall. Kobach was recently ordered by a judge to take some remedial legal training because he didn't seem to know what he was doing during trial, so their legal defense is likely to be . . . interesting.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Why do I suspect that any and all landowners--especially Native Americans--who were inconvenienced, overridden, had their land used/taken without their permission--will be more than happy to testify at any trials...?
  • Here is a special little tune for Trump's little mate and reputed World of Warcraft market manipulator, Mr Steven Bannon. A little premature, but you have to get in quick with Barr's justice department.

    In the Jailhouse Now - Tim Blake Nelson
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    The National Post(basically, a conservative opinion journal masquerading as a daily newspaper) is claiming that parts of Biden's acceptance speech were lifted from the deathbed farewell of Jack Layton, former leader of Canada's NDP.

    From my brief scan, it seemed like the alleged lift involved fairly generic phrases, and even then, Biden wasn't quoting the lines word for word.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Sorry, I meant to post that on the election thread. I'll repost it when I'm at a laptop later.
  • United States Postal Inspection Service (“USPIS”), announced the unsealing of an indictment charging BRIAN KOLFAGE, STEPHEN BANNON, ANDREW BADOLATO, and TIMOTHY SHEA for their roles in defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors in connection with an online crowdfunding campaign known as “We Build the Wall” that raised more than $25 million.

    Cheezy-whizz ! What career would a guy named "BADOLATO" get into, other than crime? There's got to be a song in this. "Andy Badolato is the crook for me". And next is "We built the wall--we watched it fall
    - - into yer bank account
    [I know. Purgatory is for serious discussion.]
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Re possibility of Trump refusing to leave the White House if he loses:

    "Top general says no role for military in presidential vote" (Politico and AP, via Yahoo).

    The "top general" is Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and who is "known to be a student of military and constitutional history". Two members of the House Armed Services Committee put questions to him in writing, and he responded in writing.

    Good read, IMHO.
  • Meanwhile does anyone know what movie Trump watched that made him think a plane load of secret agents lurking in dark shadows were coming to hurt him? You can't make this stuff up it's so weird.

    Snakes on a Plane and Sharknado perhaps?
  • Meanwhile does anyone know what movie Trump watched that made him think a plane load of secret agents lurking in dark shadows were coming to hurt him? You can't make this stuff up it's so weird.

    Facebook conspiracy theory.
  • I like the use of theatre idea by the yippies in 1968 better, better entertainment value. It was rather a good TV break from napalmed villages and dead Vietnamese.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention_protest_activity

    I've been trying to evaluate 1968 versus 2020 on a number of dimensions including Hegelian dialectics (when's that synthesis coming?) but am no where near stoned nor earnest enough, nor enjoying the soundtrack enough. The "Gestapo tactics" of the police per McGovern's nomination speech certainly show the rhyme of history.
  • I've been trying to evaluate 1968 versus 2020 on a number of dimensions . . .

    So we should expect the election to be won by the former vice president of a popular ex-president?
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    :mrgreen:

    Re Trump’s extraordinary interview with Ingraham, it just seems all of a piece with his overall strategy to wind up various sections of his loyal support base. He’s going for re-election not on the basis of broad appeal but populist appeal to these sections. I guess he knows the truth kills him so he’s simply trying to kill the truth, replace it with “alternative facts”.

    The really scary thought is that it might actually work.
  • I like the use of theatre idea by the yippies in 1968 better, better entertainment value. It was rather a good TV break from napalmed villages and dead Vietnamese.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Democratic_National_Convention_protest_activity

    I've been trying to evaluate 1968 versus 2020 on a number of dimensions including Hegelian dialectics (when's that synthesis coming?) but am no where near stoned nor earnest enough, nor enjoying the soundtrack enough. The "Gestapo tactics" of the police per McGovern's nomination speech certainly show the rhyme of history.

    The first 15 seconds of this ad pretty much sum up Trump's campaign strategy this time around.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    I've been trying to evaluate 1968 versus 2020 on a number of dimensions . . .

    So we should expect the election to be won by the former vice president of a popular ex-president?
    Truth be, I was thinking more the chaos, and deciding what soundtrack I prefer. And whether doing drugs would be apropos.
  • And then there was this tweetstorm in reaction to his unannounced visit to Walter Reed. During his rant, he said something to the effect he never had a series of mini-strokes, that it was FAKE NEWS. Funny thing is, to my knowledge no one had mentioned that he had mini-strokes. He was the first one to mention them.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I think it was FDR who used the phrase "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". The Trump re-election strategy appears to be to say "You have everything to fear if you elect Joe Biden".
  • edited September 2020
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I think it was FDR who used the phrase "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". The Trump re-election strategy appears to be to say "You have everything to fear if you elect Joe Biden".

    Which almost the first two lines of a Haiku:

    You have everything
    to fear if you elect Joe Bi-
    den. Me? good for you.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I think it was FDR who used the phrase "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". The Trump re-election strategy appears to be to say "You have everything to fear if you elect Joe Biden".

    It's a very odd election strategy -- show pictures of what the nation has become under your leadership, and say "this will all come true if you elect my opponent." And his MAGAts are stupid enough to fall for it.
  • It's not necessarily that incoherent. "Look at how bad the leftist thugs have made things, even with the police - imagine how much worse they would get if Biden's puppetmasters were allowed to defund the police."
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I think it was FDR who used the phrase "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". The Trump re-election strategy appears to be to say "You have everything to fear if you elect Joe Biden".

    Which almost the first two lines of a Haiku:

    You have everything
    to fear if you elect Joe Bi-
    den. Me? good for country.

  • Dave W wrote: »
    It's not necessarily that incoherent. "Look at how bad the leftist thugs have made things, even with the police - imagine how much worse they would get if Biden's puppetmasters were allowed to defund the police."
    Sorry just had to giggle at Biden being leftish. Very ish.
    Fear worked before for him. Why would he not try it again.
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