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Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    How about 'Con-TIN-ue' or 'Man-da-TOR-y' or is that just Welsh people now isn't it?

    I can't imagine continue stressed on any other syllable.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    Miffy wrote: »
    Wet Kipper wrote: »
    There's all sorts of jokes about posh accents. In East of Scotland they get related to people in certain well-to-do areas of Edinburgh
    Sex: what the coalman uses to bring the coal
    Crèche : when the chauffeur loses control of the car.
    They stopped drinking tea and coffee when rhey thought one could "get BSE from the kettle" .
    etc., etc.

    I know I’ve told this one a thousand times before, but when we moved back to the UK from France we were forever wondering just why we had to avoid a giant wasp ( “ Mind the guepe!”), on descending from tube train to platform.

    Londoners have to shift A towards E to make room for the U in words like up, duck, rut etc. which they pronounce as ap, dack, rat etc.. Many a northener has been bemused by inebriated cockneys suggesting he fack off back to 'Addersfield, whatever that means.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    How about 'Con-TIN-ue' or 'Man-da-TOR-y' or is that just Welsh people now isn't it?

    I can't imagine continue stressed on any other syllable.

    Here, MAN-də-tor-y
  • mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    How about 'Con-TIN-ue' or 'Man-da-TOR-y' or is that just Welsh people now isn't it?

    I can't imagine continue stressed on any other syllable.

    Here, MAN-də-tor-y

    Here, it's more like MAN-d-tree. And never heard any pronunciation other than con-TIN-yew. Don't see how you could put the stress on any other syllable.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Gee D wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    How about 'Con-TIN-ue' or 'Man-da-TOR-y' or is that just Welsh people now isn't it?

    I can't imagine continue stressed on any other syllable.

    Here, MAN-də-tor-y

    Here, it's more like MAN-d-tree. And never heard any pronunciation other than con-TIN-yew. Don't see how you could put the stress on any other syllable.

    But CON-tin-u-ity.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    Gee D wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    How about 'Con-TIN-ue' or 'Man-da-TOR-y' or is that just Welsh people now isn't it?

    I can't imagine continue stressed on any other syllable.

    Here, MAN-də-tor-y

    Here, it's more like MAN-d-tree. And never heard any pronunciation other than con-TIN-yew. Don't see how you could put the stress on any other syllable.

    But CON-tin-u-ity.

    Yes, but more like CON-tin-YEW- itee
  • Yes, like KarlLB and Gee Dee I can't envisage 'continue' being pronounced any other way than 'con-TIN-ue'.

    'Mandatory' is different. Why? I don't know. It seems to lend itself to different stresses.

    I don't think anyone in the UK would look at Mousethief daft for stressing the first syllable in that one. I imagine they might be puzzled by other stress patterns he may use, but I can't think of any examples of what those might be, off the top of my head. I just have this vague impression that the stress patterns may fall differently in our respective ways of speaking that may cause surprise - but not conflict hopefully - on both sides.

    By and large, the differences between any form of English tend to be more apparent in usage and vocabulary than in stress patterns - though these clearly differ. I watched something about Kenya last night and was intrigued by the stress patterns in the way Kenyans spoke English, for instance.

    A US friend told me about a neighbour's house being 'burglarized' the other day and that stuck out to me as something very distinctively American rather than differences in accent and stress patterns, which are more 'background.'

    We'd say 'burgled' of course.

    Forgive me, but I do wince at 'burglarized' and deplore it for some reason. I have to be honest. I don't know for why, as Uncle Bryn would say in Gavin and Stacey. Is it prejudice? Linguistic snobbery?

    I dunno.

    I have a similar reaction when hearing Lahndahnders saying 'Addersfield' ... worse even.

  • Sorry, that should have been 'Lahndahners'.
  • The verb "burgle" is a back-formation from burglar, not the other way round. I think in the 19th century when both the Brits and Americans were looking for an appropriate verb for what burglars did they went their separate ways with "burgle" and "burglarize". I may be biased but I prefer burgle, much neater.

    On another note, I heard an American pronouncing divisive as di-VIZZ-ive the other day. Until recently I had only ever heard di-VICE-ive. Is this the standard pronunciation in North America? Do words like derisive and decisive rhyme with it?
  • Is 'burglarize' a 19th century Americanism? Is it in Webster?

    For some reason I imagine it to be of more recent origin. That could be because I don't like it.

    That doesn't mean that I am 'against' Americanisms in general nor that I don't use Americanisms myself. Far from it.

    I hasten to add this as I have offended people in the past and have no intention of doing so again if I can help it.
  • The verb "burgle" is a back-formation from burglar, not the other way round. I think in the 19th century when both the Brits and Americans were looking for an appropriate verb for what burglars did they went their separate ways with "burgle" and "burglarize". I may be biased but I prefer burgle, much neater.

    Gilbert & Sullivan certainly thought "burgling" was ok, as in "When the enterprising burglar's not a-burgling"
  • On another note, I heard an American pronouncing divisive as di-VIZZ-ive the other day. Until recently I had only ever heard di-VICE-ive. Is this the standard pronunciation in North America? Do words like derisive and decisive rhyme with it?

    I've never heard any pronunciation other than də-VICE-iv.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    I always took the '-ize' suffix to indicate a process or change of state eg liquidize. So when I first heard 'hospitalize' it suggested people were being turned into hospitals rather than being taken to (a) hospital. 'Brutalize' still reads to me as being turned, Circewise, into a brute beast.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    I always took the '-ize' suffix to indicate a process or change of state eg liquidize. So when I first heard 'hospitalize' it suggested people were being turned into hospitals rather than being taken to (a) hospital. 'Brutalize' still reads to me as being turned, Circewise, into a brute beast.
    Whether actually or metaphorically isn't that what 'brutalise does mean?

    So 'burglarise' sounds like either turning somebody into a burglar - a sort of Fagin's school for young aspiring housebreakers - or treating someone as though they were a burglar irrespective of whether they really are or not.

  • The 'ize' or 'ise' have it ...

    The bloody things have proliferated in recent years, it seems to me. I'm sure they weren't so common when I were a lad.

    Indeed, I remember heading to Scotland by train when I was 18 and being surprised when a very sweet old American couple who were excitedly travelling to visit their ancestral home observed that the scenery was becoming 'more ruralised'.

    Or should I say, 'ruralized'?

    Why not simply say it was getting 'more rural'?

    Why complicate it?

    I know the following isn't typical of US speech but it is very American, but I well remember hearing my mother let out a horrified screech in the kitchen. I ran in thinking she'd scalded herself or something, only to find that an American woman being interviewed on the radio had just said, 'Well, at my maturation juncture ...' meaning, 'at my age.'

    What the heck?!

  • Years old versus years of age.

    What's that about?
  • Years old versus years of age.

    What's that about?

    Indeed, what is it about? Are you saying one is said in Blighty and another in Trumpland? Which?
  • I don't know what they say in the US or Canada but here in Blighty we say both.

    'She is 12 years old.'

    'She is 12 years of age.'

    What's the problem?

    There'd be an issue if anyone on either side of the Atlantic said, 'At her maturation juncture she is 12 yearsirized'.

    Not even George W Bush would have come out with that.

    'At this maturation juncture this child is becoming adolescenterized ...'
  • I asked because I didn't know. It isn't a problem. I hear both and wondered about it.

    I'm not in Scotland.
  • I asked because I didn't know. It isn't a problem. I hear both and wondered about it.

    I'm not in Scotland.

    You didn't know what? You didn't ask about a fact you just mentioned two phrases.
  • I asked because I didn't know. It isn't a problem. I hear both and wondered about it.

    There's more that one way to do it.

    That's OK. There are lots of instances in English where there are several different ways of conveying the same information that are both reasonable and correct.
  • I don't know what they say in the US or Canada but here in Blighty we say both.

    'She is 12 years old.'

    'She is 12 years of age.'
    Here (American South) we’d generally say “She’s 12 years old” or, more likely, simply “She’s 12.”

    “She’s 12 years of age” would usually be reserved for more formal, written contexts.


  • I thought it was a question. Quoting myself, my post contains:

    "What's that about?"

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I don't know what they say in the US or Canada but here in Blighty we say both.

    'She is 12 years old.'

    'She is 12 years of age.'
    Here (American South) we’d generally say “She’s 12 years old” or, more likely, simply “She’s 12.”

    “She’s 12 years of age” would usually be reserved for more formal, written contexts.


    Pretty much the same here. It would be unusual to hear 'of age' in an informal context.
  • I asked because I didn't know. It isn't a problem. I hear both and wondered about it.

    I'm not in Scotland.

    Nobody said you were in Scotland. We all know you are in Saskatoon.

    You hear both. So, it would seem, does everyone else. What of it?
  • Pretty much the same here. It would be unusual to hear 'of age' in an informal context.

    When I do hear it, it tends to be from older people.
  • Dog. Cat. What's that about?
  • Tripe. Autobiography. What's that about?
  • Lesotho. Duodenum. What's that about?
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host
    Let's stop the sniping, please. Just because the way someone phrased their question didn't sound "questiony" enough to you is no reason to get snarky. Move along, everyone.

    Trudy, Heavenly Host
  • If "questiony" isn't a cromulent word then it certainly should be.
  • Did you hear that Scottish Wikipedia was written by an American who did not know the Scottish dialect of English? Instead, he tried to pass off his articles in mangled English. Story here
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    She is 12 years old is by far the more usual here; she was only 12 years of age when she died is heard occasionally. A half-century ago, you might also have heard the "of age" for marriage, or birth of a child or death.
  • I think I would just say "She's 12" or "I'm 56." Both "years of age" or "years old" seem redundant.

    I would use "1 year old" or "2 year old" of a toddler who is at the cusp of having their age given in years rather than months.
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    edited September 2020
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Did you hear that Scottish Wikipedia was written by an American who did not know the Scottish dialect of English? Instead, he tried to pass off his articles in mangled English. Story here

    Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.

    My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen" There are quite a few words that look English, and have a shared entomology, but have a different meaning. "Starving" for example, means "very hungry" in English but can also mean "very cold" in Scotland. Hence -"Put a coat on, or you'll starve" makes perfect sense in Scotland, but not England (unless an English Shipmate can tell me otherwise?)

    And, of course, "gotten" is grammatically correct in Scots.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Names in different English speaking countries continue to surprise me. Recently I've been rewatching "Malcolm in the Middle" and the main family fall into three categories:

    Francis, Malcolm, Jamie - absolutely fine
    Hal, Lois - only seen in superhero comics
    Reese, Dewey - what???
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    Kylie - largely confined to this country until one of them escaped and went global.
  • LeafLeaf Shipmate
    Reese, Dewey - what???

    I thought Reese was a version of Rhys, which is probably known to you.

  • Names like Delores and Darlene appear to be purely an American thing. Or so it seems to me.

    There seem to be all sorts of names around the Anglophone world now, though, that wouldn't have been heard of when I was knee-high to an Albert.

    Names can date us.

    As far as I can tell all my Great Grandfathers on both sides of the family were called Alfred. Or most of them ;)

    Nobody's called that any more. I have heard of Alfie's though.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Darlene sounds Australian to me.
  • Ozark on Netflix has a despicable character Darlene.
    Alfred was Batman's butler.
    If I hear Reese, I think of Reese's Pieces.

    None of these are good names in my hearing.
  • Thinking about it ... are there any typically Canadian names?

    If we were asked to think of very American sounding names I'm sure we could reel off Hank and Franklin, Floyd, Duane, Tammy, Delores and the like.

    We might also cite the tendency to include a middle initial in a way that wouldn't be common elsewhere - George W Bush, Rufus T Firefly ...

    Are there typically Canadian names?

    Or Australian? Other than Bruce. Or Kylie.

    Darlene does sound Australian, come to think of it but the only instances of the name I've come across are from the USA.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Leaf wrote: »
    Reese, Dewey - what???

    I thought Reese was a version of Rhys, which is probably known to you.

    Ah, I hadn't thought of that. In the UK I once taught a girl called Shardonneh (sic). Something similar may have happened there.
  • Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.

    My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen".

    I believe the word for 'woman' in the Scandinavian languages is similar.

    Is 'quine' a general Scots word? From my position of comparative ignorance (south-of-England-dweller with Scottish family connections on one side) I'd always had the impression that it was specifically north-eastern.

    My impression (again open to correction from those more knowledgeable) is that for languages which in recent centuries haven't been a language of government/church/academia it's common for there to be a lot of regional variation with no standard form -- I've heard the same about things like Romansch and Occitan

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Leaf wrote: »
    Reese, Dewey - what???

    I thought Reese was a version of Rhys, which is probably known to you.
    Yes, I think it is a version of Rhys, which can be found in the US as the surname “Reece.” I’ve known a few Reeses and a few Deweys.

    It has long been common in the American South for boys, and sometimes girls, to have surnames as given names. Typically, these are family names; one fairly common tradition is that while an oldest son may be named after his father, a second son will be given his mother’s maiden name as his given name. (Of course, there are some maiden names that just won’t work with.) Our son goes by a surname found on both my side of the family and my wife’s side.

    In the case of girls, the surname may be part of a double name. For example, I’ve known women who go by names like Mary Scott and Sarah Fletcher.

    This all predates the current popularity of names like Taylor.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    "Starving" for example, means "very hungry" in English but can also mean "very cold" in Scotland. Hence -"Put a coat on, or you'll starve" makes perfect sense in Scotland, but not England (unless an English Shipmate can tell me otherwise?)

    I heard it growing up in northern England. But it was very much a dialect thing. Starve is etymologically linked to Dutch "sterven" and German "sterben" - to die.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited September 2020
    Here in Scotland, we don't regard Scots as a "dialect of English." Rather, it's a separate language which shares many common roots with modern English.

    My own Shipname - Quine - is Scots for woman, and comes from the same root as "Queen".

    I believe the word for 'woman' in the Scandinavian languages is similar.

    Is 'quine' a general Scots word? From my position of comparative ignorance (south-of-England-dweller with Scottish family connections on one side) I'd always had the impression that it was specifically north-eastern.

    My impression (again open to correction from those more knowledgeable) is that for languages which in recent centuries haven't been a language of government/church/academia it's common for there to be a lot of regional variation with no standard form -- I've heard the same about things like Romansch and Occitan

    Welsh has no standard form and lots of regional variation, and that in such a small geographical area. I can think of four dialectially different ways of saying "I am" and a couple more than that for "I am not". Even the formal literary language has some regional variation - but anyway using it in speech would give much the same impression as saying "Hail and well met! Forsooth thou hast indeed been mine succour in this transaction" to the checkout operator at Tesco.*

    *no, really. "Do you want a cup of tea?" is some variation on "t'isie paned o de?" but in literary language would come out "oes arnat ti eisiau cwpaned o de?" or something like that.

    There's sort of standard learners' North and South which get taught, as these are the main dialect groups (even the word for he/him is different), but the situation in the speech of native speakers is a lot more complicated.

    Breton is far worse.
  • Thinking about it ... are there any typically Canadian names?

    If we were asked to think of very American sounding names I'm sure we could reel off Hank and Franklin, Floyd, Duane, Tammy, Delores and the like.

    We might also cite the tendency to include a middle initial in a way that wouldn't be common elsewhere - George W Bush, Rufus T Firefly ...

    Are there typically Canadian names?

    Or Australian? Other than Bruce. Or Kylie.

    Darlene does sound Australian, come to think of it but the only instances of the name I've come across are from the USA.
    I don't think there are any typically Canadian names, except perhaps in First Nations, where people are named in English translation to names like Bluejay, Birch or River, or after First Nations themselves like Dakota or Cree. I know of one Kinew (compare canoe).
  • Leaf wrote: »
    Reese, Dewey - what???

    I thought Reese was a version of Rhys, which is probably known to you.

    Ah, I hadn't thought of that. In the UK I once taught a girl called Shardonneh (sic). Something similar may have happened there.

    Maybe her origin was in the quantity of wine her parents drank one night, and in their alcoholic haze they got the spelling wrong?

  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    In Northern Ireland names, like so much else, are an indication of Which Side you belong to. Are you a William or a Seamus? An Elizabeth or a Mebh? English or Irish?

    It was when my relatives emigrated to England that they started calling their children Séan or Sinead.
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