... where you mangle a song by replacing the word "girl" by the word "squirrel". It occurred to me that maybe these words rhyme in American English. Would that be correct?
I was looking at the thread in the Circus, where you mangle a song by replacing the word "girl" by the word "squirrel". It occurred to me that maybe these words rhyme in American English. Would that be correct?
Took me a while to realise they can rhyme in an American accent - it was from finding a song from Guys and Dolls, where I realised that, in Adelaide's accent, the song would still rhyme when girl was replaced by squirrel. Then I realised that was probably the point of the game, rather than an amusing coincidence!
I was looking at the thread in the Circus, where you mangle a song by replacing the word "girl" by the word "squirrel". It occurred to me that maybe these words rhyme in American English. Would that be correct?
Took me a while to realise they can rhyme in an American accent - it was from finding a song from Guys and Dolls, where I realised that, in Adelaide's accent, the song would still rhyme when girl was replaced by squirrel. Then I realised that was probably the point of the game, rather than an amusing coincidence!
For most Americans, it actually works the other way around. As I normally hear it, “squirrel” is one syllable and is pronounced skwirl.
I'd call it one-and-a-half syllables--it's got that glide thingy going on at the end (someone more erudite can give it the proper name). Basically a schwa in the second syllable.
I'd call it one-and-a-half syllables--it's got that glide thingy going on at the end (someone more erudite can give it the proper name). Basically a schwa in the second syllable.
Maybe in some parts of the US. Here, not so much—no more of a schwa before the l than in girl or swirl.
IME, "girl" and "squirrel" are close in US pronunciation, with some regional variance. "Squirrel" is generally pronounced as two syllables, though, so doesn't rhyme with "girl" *exactly*.
For most UK speakers, girl has the same vowel as 'air', and the r is not pronounced in either. It's not, for us, remotely like squirrel, where the first vowel is like the one is the one in "is", and only the second is a schwa.
Hmm. This UK speaker would say that ‘air’ has the same vowel as ‘care’ or ‘there’, whereas ‘girl’ has the same vowel as ‘curl’ or ‘twirl’.
Always been "gairl" for me (same vowel as "care") to the extent I've always considered it one of those words with a weird spelling for its sound. I'm familiar with the "gurl" pronunciation but don't use it myself.
I presume the 'air' variation is where the upper class "gels" comes from.
Yes here in the UK squirrel definitely has 2 syllables, the first one is like the sound in squid (without the d of course) and the second has a schwa vowel and begins with a non rhotic 'r'. Whereas girl is a single syllable, rhymes with curl (and neither of these words has any r sounded at all). Very different to squirrel.
Then we could get into 'film' vs 'fil-um'. I first heard 'fil-um' from a friend in Inverness, and not again until I was in Texas.
Gaelic doesn't run consonants together, which is why you tend to get those epenthetic vowels in Scots and Irish accents. Don't know whether Welsh does this, but I'm sure one of our Welsh speakers will enlighten us. Why do Texans do it?
Then we could get into 'film' vs 'fil-um'. I first heard 'fil-um' from a friend in Inverness, and not again until I was in Texas.
Gaelic doesn't run consonants together, which is why you tend to get those epenthetic vowels in Scots and Irish accents. Don't know whether Welsh does this, but I'm sure one of our Welsh speakers will enlighten us. Why do Texans do it?
Welsh does. Cefn - back, ysbyty - hospital, but notice it doesn't (or didn't) like starting words with some clusters so stuck a y (pronounced as a schwa) at the front. With virtually every Welsh speaker in Wales (as opposed to Patagonia) over the age of around 6 bilingual with English, those clusters no longer represent a problem and we hear stafell for ystafell (room), sgwennu for ysgrifennu (to write) and so on. However, pobl (people) and cwbl (all) are often pronounced, and sometimes even written, as pobol and cwbwl.
Back on squirrels, when somebody posted a link to this a few months ago, I didn't really think about the pronunciation beyond the fact that the singer (of course) had an American accent (I don't know enough to say what kind of American accent; Wikipedia says that he comes from Georgia). In the light of the discussion here, I wondered whether I would have realised what the song was about if I had just heard it without seeing the title or the video. Listening to it again, I notice that he seems to pronounce the word sometimes as a single syllable almost rhyming with the way Nigel Molesworth and I pronounce 'girl' (but with the 'r' somewhat noticeable), and sometimes as two syllables much more like the UK pronunciation; compare 0.33 and 0.48 in the video. In context the former doesn't sound as odd to me as the statement that 'squirrel' and 'girl' rhyme in the USA does in isolation.
Texans believe in never using one syllable where three can be used.
(unfair stereotype )
Actually, I don't know. But I could listen to it all day. It's rather beautiful.
My friend Rich was on a tour of the Holy Land many decades ago, and one of the people on the tour was an older woman from Texas (she seemed older to teenage Richie — probably no older than we are now). He remarked to her how he liked the way she said Baaaaaaahubull. She asked well honey how do you say it? "BY-bəl" he answered. She replied, "It don't hardly sound like the Word of God like that!"
Less piously, I was always impressed by the way a Texan colleague could effortlessly say "Sh-i-i-t" in three syllables when the rest of us could only manage one.
Less piously, I was always impressed by the way a Texan colleague could effortlessly say "Sh-i-i-t" in three syllables when the rest of us could only manage one.
When you hear it that way, it means you stepped in some pretty deep doodoo.
While we're adding syllable's may I be allowed to digress to antipodean accents and note that I have come across both Kiwis and Aussies who say words like "known" and "grown' in two syllables - knowen and growen.
While we're adding syllable's may I be allowed to digress to antipodean accents and note that I have come across both Kiwis and Aussies who say words like "known" and "grown' in two syllables - knowen and growen.
I dislike this quirk of pronunciation which in my observation occurs in Queenslanders rather than in other states of Oz. They also tend to pronounce flower as two distinct syllables (flow-wer). Many people think Australians all sound alike, but as a linguist I can assure them that there are distinct regional differences.
While we're adding syllable's may I be allowed to digress to antipodean accents and note that I have come across both Kiwis and Aussies who say words like "known" and "grown' in two syllables - knowen and growen.
Flour/Flower contain a diphthong which depending on how you perceive the sound might sound like two syllables as there's movement within the sound. If you did emphasise the bilabial at the end of 'ou' and produced a distinct schwa following it then you would reach a sound that is effectively disyllabic.
Some UK dialects tend to flatten this sound to "ah" - hence cockney "Lavvly Flahs". Other diphthongs too - my Bedfordshire mother (family with London roots so it could be either) would refer to electrical wahs and gas fahs.
Flour/Flower contain a diphthong which depending on how you perceive the sound might sound like two syllables as there's movement within the sound.
Depending on accent or pronunciation, flower, flour, shower, hour and our contain triphthongs, the vowel sequence being ah-oo-uh(r). Trained singers are taught to be conscious of this, as dealing appropriately with diphthongs and triphthongs has a effect on how the words sound and are understood when sung.
Everyone I know in Tasmania says flour, rather than flow- wer which places emphasis on the second syllable
I've never met anyone who placed the emphasis on the second syllable in flower.
In standard English, the difference between a flower and a flow-wer (probably the punchline of a joke about rivers) is the pronunciation of the first vowel. It's an /aʊ/ diphthong in the plant, and an /oʊ/ diphthong in the river. But the emphasis is the same, and in neither case is the trailing r rhotic.
The single-syllable people are, I think, pronouncing flower (and/or flour) with a triphthong.
(Do people think flour and flower are homophones?)
Comments
Not outside Scotland (and possibly N Ireland). One syllable vs two
Nobody knows if the fellow called Tirrell
Was trying to shoot at the King or a squirrel. (Eleanor Farjeon)
Too much information 😳
Yes, that's correct.
Took me a while to realise they can rhyme in an American accent - it was from finding a song from Guys and Dolls, where I realised that, in Adelaide's accent, the song would still rhyme when girl was replaced by squirrel. Then I realised that was probably the point of the game, rather than an amusing coincidence!
I'm from California originally (LA basin).
ˈswər(-ə)l
ˈgər(-ə)l
ˈskwər(-ə)l
So an “optional” schwa in each.
BTW, for “squirrel,” it gives as a chiefly British pronunciation: ˈskwir-əl
IME, "girl" and "squirrel" are close in US pronunciation, with some regional variance. "Squirrel" is generally pronounced as two syllables, though, so doesn't rhyme with "girl" *exactly*.
Always been "gairl" for me (same vowel as "care") to the extent I've always considered it one of those words with a weird spelling for its sound. I'm familiar with the "gurl" pronunciation but don't use it myself.
I presume the 'air' variation is where the upper class "gels" comes from.
Gaelic doesn't run consonants together, which is why you tend to get those epenthetic vowels in Scots and Irish accents. Don't know whether Welsh does this, but I'm sure one of our Welsh speakers will enlighten us. Why do Texans do it?
(unfair stereotype
Actually, I don't know. But I could listen to it all day. It's rather beautiful.
Welsh does. Cefn - back, ysbyty - hospital, but notice it doesn't (or didn't) like starting words with some clusters so stuck a y (pronounced as a schwa) at the front. With virtually every Welsh speaker in Wales (as opposed to Patagonia) over the age of around 6 bilingual with English, those clusters no longer represent a problem and we hear stafell for ystafell (room), sgwennu for ysgrifennu (to write) and so on. However, pobl (people) and cwbl (all) are often pronounced, and sometimes even written, as pobol and cwbwl.
(Nigel Molesworth, for anyone unfamiliar with him)
My friend Rich was on a tour of the Holy Land many decades ago, and one of the people on the tour was an older woman from Texas (she seemed older to teenage Richie — probably no older than we are now). He remarked to her how he liked the way she said Baaaaaaahubull. She asked well honey how do you say it? "BY-bəl" he answered. She replied, "It don't hardly sound like the Word of God like that!"
When you hear it that way, it means you stepped in some pretty deep doodoo.
Same here in Australia.
I was this many days old when I discovered that 'squirrel' could also rhyme with 'girl'. Never occurred to me.
All those are true for this Californian. But for me, "girl", "curl", and "twirl" also rhyme with "squirrel". It's just one of those things.
I've been having fun with the "Go Away, Little Squirrel" thread.
I dislike this quirk of pronunciation which in my observation occurs in Queenslanders rather than in other states of Oz. They also tend to pronounce flower as two distinct syllables (flow-wer). Many people think Australians all sound alike, but as a linguist I can assure them that there are distinct regional differences.
How else could one possibly pronounce it???
Same as flour.
Oh, and I remembered the word I was looking for, for those random not-quite syllables. "Glides."
Everyone I know in Tasmania says flour, rather than flow- wer which places emphasis on the second syllable
Can't remember ever hearing either of those.
Some UK dialects tend to flatten this sound to "ah" - hence cockney "Lavvly Flahs". Other diphthongs too - my Bedfordshire mother (family with London roots so it could be either) would refer to electrical wahs and gas fahs.
I've never met anyone who placed the emphasis on the second syllable in flower.
In standard English, the difference between a flower and a flow-wer (probably the punchline of a joke about rivers) is the pronunciation of the first vowel. It's an /aʊ/ diphthong in the plant, and an /oʊ/ diphthong in the river. But the emphasis is the same, and in neither case is the trailing r rhotic.
The single-syllable people are, I think, pronouncing flower (and/or flour) with a triphthong.
(Do people think flour and flower are homophones?)
They are in the part of southern England I grew up in.