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Heaven: Well, They Sure Got THAT Wrong...

24

Comments

  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    And - especially though not only in historical shows - people get travel times horribly wrong.

    In Roman times it was possible to cover considerable distances rather quickly if you were a courier carrying important news and could change horses at every mansio, but ordinary folk relied on Shank's Pony, and fifteen or sixteen miles a day would have been decent going unless you were on a forced march, which might double that distance, though not for many days in a row.

    By Tudor times, with the roads in a state of muddy chaos, you'd be lucky to get from Stratford to London in a week - and no convenient public transport to take the strain, so Shakespeare never popped back home to tell the family about the rehearsals for his latest play and then popped back to Town to see the first performance.

    And in the days of The Immortal Jane, owning a Coach and Four would cost about as much as owning a helicopter would today, so it was back to Shank's Pony or the carrier's cart, unless funds ran to a hired post-horse, or a place on the mail coach if you near lived a turnpike road.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Forget about fiction. On the seven (read it; 7) occasions I have had knowledge of a RL story in the press or TV (or been quoted) a material fact has been in error. Time, name, age, place, that sort of thing. Sometimes I wonder if it is a deliberate ploy to avoid legal action.
  • The cynic in me says that you're probably correct.
    :frowning:

    IJ
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    sionisais wrote: »
    Forget about fiction. On the seven (read it; 7) occasions I have had knowledge of a RL story in the press or TV (or been quoted) a material fact has been in error. Time, name, age, place, that sort of thing. Sometimes I wonder if it is a deliberate ploy to avoid legal action.

    My name is often spelled wrong when quoted publically(which does not happen that often, FWIW). However, I was once interviewed by a local newsmagazine about an arts festival in my hometown, and made what in retrospect were some rather silly comments.

    That time, the reported spelled my name with 100% accuracy.

  • sabinesabine Shipmate
    Most of The Jersey Shore TV show...ugh. Wrong and wrong
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Yeah, the main things that Amarillo is famous for are the Big Texan Steak House, Cadillac Ranch, and infamous for being the home of Pantex, maker of nuclear bombs.
  • Hmm. So, I really don't need to know the way there....
    :fearful:

    IJ
  • Gracious RebelGracious Rebel Shipmate
    edited July 2018
    The name 'Amarillo' in the song is almost coincidental apparently...They just needed a place that rhymed with 'pillow'.

  • My particular bugbears are American authors setting books in Britain - not a problem when the books are set in the USA, I don't know if they're wrong or not. I just hope they know of what they write. It's not the big things that irritate, so much, it's the way sentences are phrased and things are supposed to happen, but there are usually pretty big bloopers too.

    This. In particular Connie Willis' time travel books. Particularly in particular the ones set in the second world war.
    • British newspaper offices do not have morgues: they have libraries
    • Railway stations do not have tracks: they have platforms
    • Whether there is an air raid on or not, your train from Newbury will not arrive promptly at Euston. In fact, it probably won't arrive dramatically late at Euston. Because (none too difficult piece of research coming up here) trains from Newbury have always gone to Paddington.
  • I remember a thrilling scene where the detectives rushed to crematorium as the funeral service was taking place, as they knew that a vital piece of evidence had been concealed in the coffin. They burst in just as the Vicar is saying, "Dust to dust ..." and the coffin is sliding through the door into the furnace.

    How much less exciting to have waited till the service finished, "gone round the back" and got the coffin opened up! Or even to have phoned the crematorium and told them to wait!
  • bassobasso Shipmate
    A classic of the genre is the well-known chase scene in "Bullitt". Cars careening around corners and over hills in San Francisco. With every corner and hill, the scene switches to another, miles away. The cars teleport around SF as if they'd gotten something from "Back to the Future."
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host
    I suppose with some of the TV and movie scenes, even if the producers know better, they still go for what makes the better shot. There was a locally-famous TV series made here that lasted five or six seasons and involved a lot of car-chase, running from the cops, etc., type scenes. Even though everyone involved in the production from the writers to the stars to the lowliest grip was from St. John's, and 90% of the viewing audience lived here and knew the geography well, there were ALWAYS scenes where people ran around a corner and came out on a completely different street, often miles away. I could only conclude they weren't too worried about accuracy.
  • For me, one of the classic films moments is in "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves." Kevin Costner and Morgan Freeman get off the boat at Dover (we know it's Dover because we have just seen the white cliffs...) and Costner drawls "Tonight we will feast with my father in Nottingham." Really? You're seriously going to get from Dover to Nottingham on horse in under a day? It's over 200 miles. If you were galloping flat out and could change your horses every hour or so it might - just MIGHT - be possible.

    But then you see them walking along parts of Hadrian's Wall. Not only have they missed Nottingham, they have gone all the way up to Scottish border.

    Another favourite of ours comes from the TV series "Last Tango in Halifax". We lived in the Calder Valley for almost 10 years, so we know a lot of the places there very well. And in the 1st series of "Last Tango" the characters were almost NEVER where they claimed to be. On one occasion, someone was seen coming out of a shop whilst speaking on a phone and saying "I'm just in M&S in Halifax." I'm not sure which M&S they were actually in, but it certainly wasn't the Halifax one. But the best bit of all was when one of the characters was supposed to be meeting someone in a cafe in Skipton. You see him getting out of his car in a car park, and saying on his phone "I'll be with you in 5 minutes." Which was amazing, as the car park concerned was in Hebden Bridge (which is about 25 miles away from Skipton).

    Mrs Teasdale loves picking apart period dramas, where they often get the clothes spectacularly wrong. Many is the time I have heard her snort and say "no woman would have worn THAT in that period."
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Trudy wrote: »
    ... There was a locally-famous TV series made here ...
    Ah, the blessèd Doyle!

    They filmed a scene in the first series in the road outside our house; there was a camera-dolly right outside our bedroom window, and if I'd opened the window I could have shaken hands with the cameraman.
    [/tangent]
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    For me, one of the classic films moments is in "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves." Kevin Costner and Morgan Freeman get off the boat at Dover (we know it's Dover because we have just seen the white cliffs...) and Costner drawls "Tonight we will feast with my father in Nottingham." Really? You're seriously going to get from Dover to Nottingham on horse in under a day? It's over 200 miles. If you were galloping flat out and could change your horses every hour or so it might - just MIGHT - be possible.

    But then you see them walking along parts of Hadrian's Wall. Not only have they missed Nottingham, they have gone all the way up to Scottish border.

    Another favourite of ours comes from the TV series "Last Tango in Halifax". We lived in the Calder Valley for almost 10 years, so we know a lot of the places there very well. And in the 1st series of "Last Tango" the characters were almost NEVER where they claimed to be. On one occasion, someone was seen coming out of a shop whilst speaking on a phone and saying "I'm just in M&S in Halifax." I'm not sure which M&S they were actually in, but it certainly wasn't the Halifax one. But the best bit of all was when one of the characters was supposed to be meeting someone in a cafe in Skipton. You see him getting out of his car in a car park, and saying on his phone "I'll be with you in 5 minutes." Which was amazing, as the car park concerned was in Hebden Bridge (which is about 25 miles away from Skipton).

    Mrs Teasdale loves picking apart period dramas, where they often get the clothes spectacularly wrong. Many is the time I have heard her snort and say "no woman would have worn THAT in that period."

    I used to love Last Tango - a real break from the usual sitcom pap.

    Of course TV and film producers have to find photogenic locations, even if they seem daft to those in the know - though Prince of Thieves was in an awful class of its own.

    I believe that Sid's Cafe in Last of the Summer Wine was actually a home decorating shop, until so many visitors turned up in Holmfirth looking for the cafe that it was finally turned into one.

    BTW, Hadrian's Wall isn't on the current Scottish border, though an awful lot of people think it is.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    For me, one of the classic films moments is in "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves." Kevin Costner and Morgan Freeman get off the boat at Dover (we know it's Dover because we have just seen the white cliffs...) and Costner drawls "Tonight we will feast with my father in Nottingham." Really? You're seriously going to get from Dover to Nottingham on horse in under a day? It's over 200 miles. If you were galloping flat out and could change your horses every hour or so it might - just MIGHT - be possible.

    But then you see them walking along parts of Hadrian's Wall. Not only have they missed Nottingham, they have gone all the way up to Scottish border.

    Another favourite of ours comes from the TV series "Last Tango in Halifax". We lived in the Calder Valley for almost 10 years, so we know a lot of the places there very well. And in the 1st series of "Last Tango" the characters were almost NEVER where they claimed to be. On one occasion, someone was seen coming out of a shop whilst speaking on a phone and saying "I'm just in M&S in Halifax." I'm not sure which M&S they were actually in, but it certainly wasn't the Halifax one. But the best bit of all was when one of the characters was supposed to be meeting someone in a cafe in Skipton. You see him getting out of his car in a car park, and saying on his phone "I'll be with you in 5 minutes." Which was amazing, as the car park concerned was in Hebden Bridge (which is about 25 miles away from Skipton).

    Mrs Teasdale loves picking apart period dramas, where they often get the clothes spectacularly wrong. Many is the time I have heard her snort and say "no woman would have worn THAT in that period."

    If you look carefully in. RHPoT you'll notice they've actually landed at Eastbourne.
  • The one that really grates on me is in a book that I doubt anyone on the Ship except me has read. It's just not your cup of tea.

    It is in Rainbow Six by Tom Clancy (see, I said it wouldn't be your cup of tea).

    There is a point where one of the main characters (a Russian ex-KGB type) is in a pub in Hereford* and he along with other pub denizens are watching a football match (not American, no) on the television. At the final whistle someone turns around and says the immortal line...

    "Tie! Another bloody tie!"

    This is just wrong in so many ways. Here are a couple...

    1. It is a draw! No British person ever uses the word tie except when knotting something. When two teams have the same score it is a draw.

    2. It is quite unlikely someone would be complaining of a draw in what is probably an English Premier League match. It is sometimes (more often than not actually) quite a good result, and some teams make good use of a string of draws. Any team managed by Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce would take a draw many, many times. Both teams get a point see, rather than no points for a loss.

    The line just grates. The whole text where British people are talking to Americans is clunky at the best of times in that book, but that line makes my teeth itch.

    * and it is pronounced HERER-ford not HEAR-ford like De Niro did in Ronin which is another thing done wrong (but in a film). You would have thought Sean Bean would have corrected him, but then he supports Sheffield United so probably didn't know himself the piggy git.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Films alway mess up the geography of London (as they do other places). The worst offender was National Treasure 2. The were speeding around the City of London (financial district) which is East and North of the river. They come out over Westminster Bridge from the South to the Houses of Parliament which is West’
    BT once made an add for Wi-fi in cafe near where I live. The cafe never had Wi-fi.
  • For me, one of the classic films moments is in "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves." ... Not only have they missed Nottingham, they have gone all the way up to Scottish border.

    They also stopped on the way back as the fight against Little John and the waterfall bathing scene were filmed at Aysgarth Falls and Hardraw Force respectively, both in the Yorkshire Dales.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    Having just finished Dan Brown's latest Robert Langdon book, Origin, I place before you a few apparent mistakes and/or anomalies (though making no comment as to the scientific stuff, which may, or may not, be complete jabberwocky).

    1. The Prologue begins 'As the ancient [my italics] cogwheel train clawed its way up the dizzying incline....'.

    This is a reference to the Montserrat Rack Railway, near Barcelona, and the novel is set in the present day. However, the railway in question, opened indeed as long ago as 1892 (with steam engines very like those on the Snowdon Mountain Railway in Wales), closed in 1957. It lay dormant for many years until rebuilt, modernised, and electrified, and reopened in 2003. Hardly an 'ancient cogwheel train'......

    Tut, tut, young Dan - your researchers should have spotted this, and in the very first line of the book, too.

    2. Later on, a Mass being held in the cathedral of an ultra-conservative Catholic sect is described, but the Gospel is read by 'a young parishioner in a suit'. I know it's permitted in some liturgical churches (the C of E for example) for a lay person to read the Gospel, but surely not in such a conservative setting?

    3. The sermon comes after the Gospel, and is preached by the leader of the sect (who appears through a door hidden behind the altar). The cleric is dressed in 'a white cassock, a golden tippet (stole?), an embroidered sash, and a bejewelled papal pretiosa mitre.'. This seems a bit minimalist, even if he isn't the celebrant of the Mass - again, surely such a conservative setting would be more likely to use more elaborate vesture?

    Mr. Brown, of course, can employ whatever artistic licence he wishes, but these little details do niggle so....
    :confused:

    IJ
  • I was studying at King's College London when "The Da Vinci Code" came out. At that time it used a series of small grotty rooms in the Strand Campus. Dan's description of the department was much more akin to one of the grander rooms in the Chancery Lane Library, half a mile away.
  • Tut, tut, young Dan - your researchers should have spotted this, and in the very first line of the book, too.

    I barely managed to finish The DaVinci Code and won't touch another Dan Brown book. But I was convinced after reading that, that Dan Brown not only has no researchers, but doesn't bother to do any research himself. (I believe we had at least one thread on the topic of his errors at the time.)
  • Well, each to his or her own, I guess... :wink:

    FWIW, I enjoy his books - pure escapism, and certainly not to be taken seriously.

    I don't quite know why the points I've mentioned captured my attention, but I'm on fairly strong painkillers at the moment... :cold_sweat:

    IJ
  • MMMMMM Shipmate
    Not quite the same, I know but - I opened my web browser at work yesterday to see a link for pictures of 'adverts for cars over the last 200 years'

    ???

    I don't think there were that many for the first 70 or so!

    MMM
  • "Car" was used for "chariot" at one time, wasn't it?

    I remember reading the Aeneid in high school Latin, where each passage was introduced with a brief summary in English. One began: "Juno, from her car, looked down . . . ."

    I wondered what make of car Juno would choose for herself.
  • PiaPia Shipmate Posts: 13
    Contrary to what one might think from watching the BBC series, Poldark, it is not possible to get anywhere in Cornwall by cantering along the same 100 yards of coast path.
  • My Granddad used to get particularly het up about a British actors playing soldiers, clearly having learnt from American war films, saluted with their hand parallel to the ground rather than flat and facing forward correct to British armed services (maybe not the navy, I'm sure someone can correct me). It doesn't happen now as research is more thorough and everyone seems to have twigged that the two countries salute differently but it was definitely a thing in the late 50s and 60s.

    Has anyone ever seen a portrayal of an archaeologist that in anyway reflects reality? Measurements or records are never taken. Skeletons come out of the ground whole and intact as though they still had cartilage and tendons holding them together. Every screen archaeologist is an expert on every material and every period throughout history. Everyone is looking for gold, no one is looking for pollen. It's all Indiana Jones' fault.
  • SignallerSignaller Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    Pia wrote: »
    Contrary to what one might think from watching the BBC series, Poldark, it is not possible to get anywhere in Cornwall by cantering along the same 100 yards of coast path.
    ...and although the riders are doing the same journey regularly, there's never any sign of a path, just virgin grass.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    My Granddad used to get particularly het up about a British actors playing soldiers, clearly having learnt from American war films, saluted with their hand parallel to the ground rather than flat and facing forward correct to British armed services (maybe not the navy, I'm sure someone can correct me). It doesn't happen now as research is more thorough and everyone seems to have twigged that the two countries salute differently but it was definitely a thing in the late 50s and 60s.

    Has anyone ever seen a portrayal of an archaeologist that in anyway reflects reality? Measurements or records are never taken. Skeletons come out of the ground whole and intact as though they still had cartilage and tendons holding them together. Every screen archaeologist is an expert on every material and every period throughout history. Everyone is looking for gold, no one is looking for pollen. It's all Indiana Jones' fault.

    The British naval salute does not show the palm of the hand, apparently because in the days of sail the ABs' hands were black from tar and thus unsightly; naval staff can salute with the left hand if the right hand is not free for any reason.

    Officially the lower-ranked person is saluting the monarch, and the higher-ranked person is returning the salute on the monarch's behalf.

    Details, details...
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Trudy wrote: »
    I could only conclude they weren't too worried about accuracy.
    Their aim tends to be verisimilitude, not accuracy. When filming on location they are restrained by a lot of logistical concerns: local permits, property owners agreeing to filming, having enough space for their gear and crew, including parking for their trucks and a place to feed everyone. There is also a limitation on how far they can require people to travel in one day before they have to put them up for the night.

    My town, Long Beach, CA, gets a lot of TV location shooting because it's within the local filming driving radius of Los Angeles and also has places that look like they could be other places. CSI Miami filmed here for years, as did Dexter (also set in Miami). The church where I work stood in for a Boston church when Ally McBeal was on TV. When the city planted new trees in sidewalk cutouts on one side of the church, they talked about planting palm trees, and the Church Council talked them into planting something that doesn't scream Southern California so the building could continue to stand in for east coast locations.

    That said, it still makes me nuts when they get church stuff wrong, which they do most of the time. Part of my job is to field requests from TV/movie/commercial location scouts and show them around the facility, and then to be the liaison to the film crew if we get the gig (which doesn't happen often, but pays handsomely when it does). I used to try to tell them when they were getting things wrong -- just putting up a crucifix in our Congregational church doesn't make it look Catholic, for example -- but they never listened, so now I just keep mum and take their money. But dear God, I want to throw things at the TV every time a police detective walks into a church and the priest or minister is just hanging around in the sanctuary, polishing the candlesticks or something, as if they had nothing else to do.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    One thing that has always gotten to me about The Big Bang Theory is the paltry , utilitarian lunch room they meet in. People! This is CalTech! My town's small sectarian university has a nicer grub hub than that. Someone else thought TBBT dining room was pretty low rent.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Bishops Finger wrote:

    I know it's permitted in some liturgical churches (the C of E for example) for a lay person to read the Gospel, but surely not in such a conservative setting?

    Unless I'm misremembering things, I'm pretty sure the gospel reading in Catholic churches is by law people, isn't it? Granted, the ones I usually went to weren't what you would call overly conservative, but still, it did seem to be the norm.

    Just to be clear, we're talking about the portion of the mass where someone says eg. "A reading from the Gospel according to John...", and then the parishoners rub their foreheads, mouths, and heart?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »

    I barely managed to finish The DaVinci Code and won't touch another Dan Brown book. But I was convinced after reading that, that Dan Brown not only has no researchers, but doesn't bother to do any research himself. (I believe we had at least one thread on the topic of his errors at the time.)

    Well, actually, I think his unwitting researchers, at least for the first book, were the guys who wrote Holy Blood Holy Grail, who later unsuccessfully sued him for plagiarism. (They might have had better luck if they had presented their own book as fiction, but since they said it was non-fiction, Bown just argued that he was using history to write fiction, like a zillion other writers.)

  • Ruth wrote: »

    My town, Long Beach, CA, gets a lot of TV location shooting because it's within the local filming driving radius of Los Angeles and also has places that look like they could be other places. CSI Miami filmed here for years,

    So when we wondered around the Miami Beaches years ago, to no avail, we were definitely in the wrong places ? I feel such a fool for getting my hopes up :smile:
  • stetson wrote: »
    Bishops Finger wrote:

    I know it's permitted in some liturgical churches (the C of E for example) for a lay person to read the Gospel, but surely not in such a conservative setting?

    Unless I'm misremembering things, I'm pretty sure the gospel reading in Catholic churches is by law people, isn't it? Granted, the ones I usually went to weren't what you would call overly conservative, but still, it did seem to be the norm.

    Just to be clear, we're talking about the portion of the mass where someone says eg. "A reading from the Gospel according to John...", and then the parishoners rub their foreheads, mouths, and heart?

    People are crossing themselves in those places.... :fearful:

    But yes, we're talking about the Gospel reading at Mass, and I'm pretty certain that this is reserved for ordained clergy only (bishop, priest, or deacon) in the Roman Catholic Church.

    RC Shipmates, please adjudicate!

    (BTW, stetson, I believe you to be Dan Brown, and I therefore claim my £5)

    IJ

  • Ruth wrote: »
    I want to throw things at the TV every time a police detective walks into a church and the priest or minister is just hanging around in the sanctuary, polishing the candlesticks or something, as if they had nothing else to do.
    And all those dozens of candles burning around the place!

  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    "Car" was used for "chariot" at one time, wasn't it?

    I remember reading the Aeneid in high school Latin, where each passage was introduced with a brief summary in English. One began: "Juno, from her car, looked down . . . ."

    I wondered what make of car Juno would choose for herself.

    Quinquecentum?
  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Tut, tut, young Dan - your researchers should have spotted this, and in the very first line of the book, too.

    I barely managed to finish The DaVinci Code and won't touch another Dan Brown book. But I was convinced after reading that, that Dan Brown not only has no researchers, but doesn't bother to do any research himself. (I believe we had at least one thread on the topic of his errors at the time.)

    Our local Oxfam shop has only ever refused to take two books: The Da Vinci Code and Fifty Shades of Grey.

    They managed to shift their copies of FSoG by giving away a free copy with each purchase of a dressing gown (I kid you not) but TDVC just sat there: subsequent Brown books were refused from the get-go.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    Bishops Finger wrote:

    I know it's permitted in some liturgical churches (the C of E for example) for a lay person to read the Gospel, but surely not in such a conservative setting?

    Unless I'm misremembering things, I'm pretty sure the gospel reading in Catholic churches is by law people, isn't it? Granted, the ones I usually went to weren't what you would call overly conservative, but still, it did seem to be the norm.

    Just to be clear, we're talking about the portion of the mass where someone says eg. "A reading from the Gospel according to John...", and then the parishoners rub their foreheads, mouths, and heart?

    People are crossing themselves in those places.... :fearful:

    But yes, we're talking about the Gospel reading at Mass, and I'm pretty certain that this is reserved for ordained clergy only (bishop, priest, or deacon) in the Roman Catholic Church.

    RC Shipmates, please adjudicate!

    (BTW, stetson, I believe you to be Dan Brown, and I therefore claim my £5)

    IJ

    Well, internet research confirms you are correct about those being crosses. Not sure I ever knew that, even though I did the gesture for decades. (I think the action was only ever explained to me once, in school, and maybe the teacher never mentioned it was crossing.)

    As for "Gospel reading", you specifically mean Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Maybe those are read by clergy only. I'm pretty sure I remember Bible readings by lay people, but maybe they were all Old Testament or Letters.

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    stetson wrote: »
    As for "Gospel reading", you specifically mean Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Maybe those are read by clergy only. I'm pretty sure I remember Bible readings by lay people, but maybe they were all Old Testament or Letters.
    Yes, I think @Bishops Finger is right. Per the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, a lay person can read the OT and Epistle lessons, but the Gospel must be read by a deacon, or if no deacon is present, a priest.

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    As for "Gospel reading", you specifically mean Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Maybe those are read by clergy only. I'm pretty sure I remember Bible readings by lay people, but maybe they were all Old Testament or Letters.
    Yes, I think @Bishops Finger is right. Per the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, a lay person can read the OT and Epistle lessons, but the Gospel must be read by a deacon, or if no deacon is present, a priest.

    Ah, thanks.

    I think it's possible that I've heard the Gospels read by deacons, but assumed that they were just run-of-the-mill laypeople. I'm not sure I was ever aware of any particular individual in one of my churhes being a deacon.

  • I know it's a bit much to expect pinpoint accuracy from a pre-Batman Christian Bale movie about dragons in modern-day Britain, but Reign of Fire has a pretty jarring moment when the protagonists plan to fly their helicopter down the east coast from Northumberland to London "hugging the cliffs all the way" in order to avoid the dragons.

    Er, no. There aren't many cliffs on the Lincolnshire or East Anglian coasts. Y'all are dragon chow...
  • Nor along the banks of the Thames Estuary past Southend, Tilbury and Greenwich.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited August 2018
    Living here in Cardiff we find it fun to try and identify locations used in "Casualty". One or two of them are pretty obvious, but a few months ago there was a shot of a young lad lying in a subway. "Ah", thought I, "I know where that is - it's on the council estate near our church. And the pile of soil in the background is for the new children's playground that's just been built".

    One thing puzzled me: the brightly painted stripes on the wall. Were they really there? Next tine I was down I checked - and they were!
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    Archaeology is always wrong on TV. I particularly remember an episode of Murder, She Wrote where the dig was set up like something out of the 1950s, and Jessica found something gold - and stood up and waved it about!!!

    More recently there was a shortlived (thankfully) series called Bonekickers. In the first episode a student archaeologist invited a member of the public down into the trench, and later on wandered around with what turned out to be a chunk of the True Cross under her arm - they ended up in a massive cavern underneath the dovecote at Garway, leaving the baddie to be burned to death by a forest of "True Crosses" while they went down the pub....

    In another episode (I was watching it in the way one watches a car crash, in the hope it wouldn't get any worse) they are digging up skeletons on the sea shore, and identify the ship they came from because the ship's bell had helpfully been chucked over the side.
    And the main woman archaeologist had an obsession with King Arthur - and lived in a house in Bath she couldn't possibly have afforded on an archaeologist's salary.
    I kind of gave up after that.
  • edited August 2018
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Per the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, a lay person can read the OT and Epistle lessons, but the Gospel must be read by a deacon, or if no deacon is present, a priest.

    In those heady days before the Vatican II reforms took effect, and the mass was still in Latin, I remember the priest reading the epistle and gospel sotto voce in Latin while a lay reader read them in English into a microphone -- but he wasn't allowed to stand in the pulpit.

    As for the gospel crossings, the nuns in Sunday school taught us that they were indeed crosses and that they meant "May the gospel be in our minds, on our lips, and in our hearts." Interestingly, however, the Catholic Encyclopedia, usually reliable in these matters, is silent on their meaning.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    There aren't many cliffs on the Lincolnshire or East Anglian coasts. Y'all are dragon chow...

    But, but - where do King’s Lynn Mountain Rescue go to practice?
  • The BBC Proms "SURE GO IT WRONG" tonight with a so called "Folk Prom."

    I've just switched it off before I scream.

    Every trad folk group with trad instruments and folk singer/s was accompanied by a full orchestra!!!!

    If you want an "orchestral folk music prom" you can use the plentiful repertoire of "arranged folk music" played on classical instruments. But to try and accompany proper folk musicians who don't actually use the conventional scales of classical music (Usually modal or pentatonic with dropped notes and slides) .............

    Trad folk groups can validate their own music without a symphony orchestra plodding away in the background detracting from the good music they are making. It's not "pushing the boundaries" which the BBC called it. Vaughan Williams used orchestral arrangements long, long ago.

    Even Scottish "mouth music" which should be unaccompanied had an orchestral accompaniment! Julie Fowlis should be ashamed of herself. In Mouth Music (won't put the Gaelic down - can't spell it) the voice provides the "music" for the dancers not instruments. Eeeeekkk.

    Glad I spent my holiday in Doolin listening to real Irish musicians without an orchestra popping out of a cupboard. Looking forward to the folk concert on Thurs night at the Eisteddfod - without an orchestra spoiling the folk musicians.

    Anyone else seen/heard the Prom? What did you think?
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Per the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, a lay person can read the OT and Epistle lessons, but the Gospel must be read by a deacon, or if no deacon is present, a priest.

    In those heady days before the Vatican II reforms took effect, and the mass was still in Latin, I remember the priest reading the epistle and gospel sotto voce in Latin while a lay reader read them in English into a microphone -- but he wasn't allowed to stand in the pulpit.

    As for the gospel crossings, the nuns in Sunday school taught us that they were indeed crosses and that they meant "May the gospel be in our minds, on our lips, and in our hearts." Interestingly, however, the Catholic Encyclopedia, usually reliable in these matters, is silent on their meaning.

    In view of what Miss Amanda says, and the fact that Mr. Brown was writing about an extremely conservative Roman sect, I wonder if perhaps he got it right ? The celebrant may indeed have been saying the Gospel in Latin at the altar....

    IJ

  • There was a moment on "Father Brown" where I thought that they had got it wrong, but now I am not so sure.

    In one episode, Lady Felicia tells people that her favourite hymn is "Morning has broken". Now whilst Father Brown is set in the 1950's, I thought that this hymn didn't gain popularity until the 1960's (Cat Stevens and all that) and I am sure that I have seen that the copyright on the words dates from 1962. But on checking further, I found that it was first published in 1931. But I am still unsure how well the hymn was known in the early 1950's. Anyone got any idea?

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