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Heaven: All things good about the USA
Gamma Gamaliel
Shipmate
I know there's a tea and gin and all things British thread, but had anyone tried to tamp down the occasional Pond War spats with an 'All things great and good about the USA' thread?
If not, I'll start one to atone for joining in a spat about baseball which quickly got out of hand. And yes, I was one of those who joined in ...
So, in the interests of keeping the relationship special here's a thread that will hopefully not become too Purgatorial nor patronising in the way that Western Europeans, and particularly British, can often be about the US. You know, the qualified, 'They might do this / that / the other well ... but ...'
And also avoiding Bob Hoskins's famous speech at the end of The Long Good Friday.
So, rushing in where angels fear to tread, here are a few starters for ten:
The Simpsons
The Marx Brothers
F Scott Fitzgerald
All the cartoons from when I was a kid - Deputy Dawg, Yogi Bear, Huckleberry Hound, Top Cat ... (And a particular accolade to the 1940s Fred Quimby Tom & Jerry cartoons).
Hitchcock films (ok he was British but ...)
Old Western movies.
The Chrysler Building
Mark Twain
Garrison Keillor
Roosevelt
Dorothy Day
Rothko
Jazz - all the way from trad' to Davies, Parker and Coltrane.
Warhol
Woody Allen (until the revelations came out)
US craft beer for at least having a go, but not so many points for execution (whoops, that's tilting on the side of patronising) ...
King Kong
Ray Harryhausen
There'll be more.
I've only been to Newark and New York so can't wax lyrical about New England in the fall, Yosemite, Monument Valley, The Grand Canyon, The Appalachians or anywhere else.
Nor have I sampled authentic Cajun cooking nor proper grits and bacon - although I had some ersatz version in New York.
So my list is necessarily limited. It does not imply there is no more to admire.
If not, I'll start one to atone for joining in a spat about baseball which quickly got out of hand. And yes, I was one of those who joined in ...
So, in the interests of keeping the relationship special here's a thread that will hopefully not become too Purgatorial nor patronising in the way that Western Europeans, and particularly British, can often be about the US. You know, the qualified, 'They might do this / that / the other well ... but ...'
And also avoiding Bob Hoskins's famous speech at the end of The Long Good Friday.
So, rushing in where angels fear to tread, here are a few starters for ten:
The Simpsons
The Marx Brothers
F Scott Fitzgerald
All the cartoons from when I was a kid - Deputy Dawg, Yogi Bear, Huckleberry Hound, Top Cat ... (And a particular accolade to the 1940s Fred Quimby Tom & Jerry cartoons).
Hitchcock films (ok he was British but ...)
Old Western movies.
The Chrysler Building
Mark Twain
Garrison Keillor
Roosevelt
Dorothy Day
Rothko
Jazz - all the way from trad' to Davies, Parker and Coltrane.
Warhol
Woody Allen (until the revelations came out)
US craft beer for at least having a go, but not so many points for execution (whoops, that's tilting on the side of patronising) ...
King Kong
Ray Harryhausen
There'll be more.
I've only been to Newark and New York so can't wax lyrical about New England in the fall, Yosemite, Monument Valley, The Grand Canyon, The Appalachians or anywhere else.
Nor have I sampled authentic Cajun cooking nor proper grits and bacon - although I had some ersatz version in New York.
So my list is necessarily limited. It does not imply there is no more to admire.
Comments
The accents of the South. I still need to visit more places but I want someone with a Southern accent to tell me when I am about to die. I wouldn't be sad about it; I'd be focussing on that accent.
The sheer bloody friendliness and helpfulness of them. If I tried it it would come across fake but they manage to come across genuine as they are genuine.
There’s a tremendous amount of great writing in just about every genre too. While the US has P J O’Rourke we British have Jeremy Clarkson, who is a derivative yob, lacking invention.
Clarkson's just a boor.
I'm not sure who a UK equivalent to O'Rourke would be.
On the genuineness thing, I don't doubt that at all, particularly in the US South.
And Yosemite (and Crater Lake, and Mount Lassen, and ...)
Oh, and Redwood trees.
Having enjoyed a fabulous 2 week tour of Western National Parks, (Yosemite, Death Valley, Zion, Bryce, Lake Powell, Grand Canyon) I would nominate the whole national park system.
Compared with the UK, the US seems to have got the balance just right between commercial tourism and conservation. There is a fee for entry, but then car parks and free 'green' shuttle buses abound, there are rangers all over the place, and even toilets in out of the way places. Very impressive.
I don't have much experience of the US, but things I love would include:
New York City
Snoopy (and the other inhabitants of the Peanuts cartoons)
I envy you! I, too, love the national parks. I went to Yellowstone for the first time a number of years ago and it was incredibly beautiful. And scary, I couldn't help thinking about how I was blithely walking around on what possibly is the place where civilization ends. Yikes!
I'm also lucky enough to live in a county that has a national park- Joshua Tree National Park. A friend and I go visit a couple of times a year.
Not quite as big as yours.
Cue quote from George Borrow's 'Wild Wales'.
'And what kind of place is Tregaron?'
'Oh, a very good place. Not quite as big as London.'
Kurt Vonnegut (Slaughter House 5, Breakfast of Champions)
William Styron (Sophie's Choice, Darkness Visible)
William Shirer (20th Century Journey, Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, he was also a broadcaster)
Place to go:
Washington State Highway 20, known as the North Cascades Route. Not many people, camp where you will. You can keep going through Idaho into Montana and Glacier National Park, where there are quite a lot of people, and it contiguous with Waterton National Park, together are are Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park.
If I started on music and the arts, I could not stop.
Don't forget Rex Stout for his Nero Wolfe murder mystery series.
.
So for example in the last year I have been to Mt. Rainier NP, which is a nature preserve and "natural wonder" kind of park; and also the San Juan Island National Historical Park, which specifically preserves locations and buildings from a war the US and the British didn't have in 1859, and serves as an interpretive center (actually there are two centers) explaining the history of that non-war.
The war that never took place is a new one on me, although MT may have alluded to it before.
I suspect that very few British or Americans know about the war we never actually had. I insist it goes onto every high school syllabus alongside the Mars Bar Henry Kissinger didn't eat on 3rd January 1973 or the doughnut Shakespeare didn't buy on 18th November 1602.
Bryce Canyon.
Breakfast in an American Diner.
Lunch in Quincey Market, Boston, Ma
The approach to Chicago airport, flying past the skyscrapers over the lake.
Ernest Hemingway,
The friendliness of Americans when they hear a British accent.
Sure, but according to Wikipedia when both Washington (DC) and London (England) got to hear about it they were both eager to dampen things down. Mind you, having two military bases on a grassy island somewhere in No-Man's Land (Sound?) between British Columbia and that North Western US state that nobody's heard of for 12 years and Kaiser Wilhelm 1st being asked to adjudicate is quite something.
What I did find most amusing though, was that US park rangers raise the Union Flag (it's only a Jack when it's at sea) every morning. I suppose they have to be given something to do. Bizarre. Like as if any of us over here give a flying fart ...
Interesting, though, and I'm indebted to you for bringing this major historical event which never was to our attention.
It reminds me of the headline in The Morley Observer - a town 5 miles south of Leeds - when a rare earth tremor struck the English Midlands 80 miles to the south, 'Earthquake Misses Morley.'
Still, I think if I were responsible for a grassy island off the US and Canadian coasts where nothing happened but almost did, I'd want to commemorate it in some way.
Otherwise it'd be forgotten like other border incidents like those in the 1830s and also, perhaps most bizarrely of all, the Fenian Invasion of Canada by Irish Republicans based in the US in the 1860s. I knew nothing of that until I saw an engraving of the ensuing skirmish in a museum in Dublin. I thought they were taking the mickey at first, but no, there was such an incident.
A fella once told me he was in a museum in Boston dedicated to The Boston Tea Party, Boston Massacre, Bunker Hill and so on and feeling decidedly 'got at' by what he took to be the anti-British tone of the displays. A fellow Englishman, sensing his discomfort, sidled up to him and whispered, 'Carruthers, MI5 ...'
What, that Irish Republicans will again stage an invasion of Canada from US soil?
I know expatriate British people in the US who've had well meaning friends and neighbours ask them in very concerned and sympathetic tones whether they feel upset about 1776 and all that ...
Bless 'em. That's rather sweet.
When my brother worked on a kids' camp in Maine back in the summer of 1980 he put on a 'skit' for their closing season's show where he made himself a makeshift red-coat uniform and acted like one of those Japanese soldiers who didn't surrender for years after WW2 - only the redcoat equivalent. It went down well.
The brother of one of my ancestors went AWOL during the 1812-14 Anglo-US War and settled in Upper New York State.
I'll send you a transcript of the letter he wrote home (checking to see if there was now any money in the family. There wasn't.).
Fascinating letter.
Meanwhile, @Gamma Gamaliel, why did you start this thread again?
(where's the Devil emoji when you need it?)
No, I've learned a lot, about Washington State and US national parks and given Shippies a chance to list US authors, musicians and so on whose work they appreciate and Sioni Sais an opportunity to wax lyrical about aeronautics ...
What's not to like?
Have the spare bed ready, please.
It's exactly what I would expect and accords with accounts relatives have friends have given of their travels in the States.
This isn't a sentimental, 'Mom and Apple Pie' thing, aren't those Southern folks cute?
No, it's meant as a serious compliment.
Even though I can't resist striking up along with Jim Reeves ...
'I love those dear hearts and gentle people
Who live in my home town
I love those dear hearts and gentle people
Who never ever let me down
They read the Good Book from Friday 'til Monday
That's how the weekend goes
I've got a dream house, I'll build their one day
With picket fence and rambling rose.'
(Hope that doesn't breach any copyright rules.)
I'd also add to the list of Good Things to come out of America, the various US Shippies here, too many to list, but as well as Nick and Mousethief there's the estimable Josephine and good folk like Kelly Alves, Cliffdweller, Lamb Chopped ...
(Retires to a safe distance...)
There was another disputed territory oddity on the east coast. The treaty of Paris specified that the boundary between New Hampshire and Canada was, "the northwestern most head of the Connecticut River". However, there were three tributaries that formed the Connecticut River, and it was not clear which one was meant. The land between the three tributaries was in dispute, and Britain and America both tried to collect taxes there. The local residents objected and declared themselves an independent republic--the Republic of Indian Stream. Both the US and Britain objected to this, and there were skirmishes between the locals and both governments. The dispute was settled in favor of the US by the Webster-Ashburton Treaty, and the Republic of Indian Stream was incorporated into New Hampshire.
But yes, you're right. Men signed, as "Representatives of the united States of America."
I remember that song well from my youth. It was not a Jim Reeves number, though. It was recorded by Dinah Shore, Gordon MacRae, Bing Crosby, Dennis Day, Perry Como and Doreen Lundy. See Wikipedia entry.
Jim Reeves, however, may well have believed that the plural possessive adjective was correct in the line "I've got a dream house, I'll build their one day."
Just be careful.
In the spirit of the thread:
The Blues
True BBQ (In its many variations)
Creole Food
Yes, it's the Bing Crosby version I'm most familiar with but when I looked up the lyrics online to make sure my memory wasn't playing tricks as to how the lyrics run, it gave me a Jim Reeves version.
And thanks for spotting the typo ...
Dang! Must remember to preview my posts!
On Andras's thing about Washington being a slave-owning rapist. Well, he certainly owned slaves but I thought it was Jefferson who went in for abusing them that way.
I did raise this with some Americans once and they assured me that Washington was quite abstemious. I'm sure I heard somewhere that he caught cold and died returning from one of the slave huts where he'd been having his wicked way, but again, that might have been Jefferson.
To be fair, there was an abolitionist movement in what became the USA as early as the 1750s I think, beginning among the Quakers. There were even moves to ban or at least restrict slave ownership in the fledgling Republic around 1790.
Although we abolished slavery before our US cousins, I don't think we British have room to gloat. How had the slaves arrived in the Colonies and West Indies in the first place?
It's a cheap jab to remind Americans that the self-evident and inalienable right of people to 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' only applied if you were white, a property owner and not slaves and Native Americans.
That doesn't stop me doing it at times ...
It's certainly the case that some runaway slaves and some Native Americans sided with the British because they thought they'd get a better deal, but there were also plenty of black troops in Washington's Continental Army, from what I can gather.
Nobody was squeaky clean back then when it came to human rights, hence the impressiveness of the US Bill of Rights as a document.
By some convoluted logic, the British naval authorities convinced themselves that press-ganging merchant seamen - contrary to popular perception they rarely press-ganged land-lubbers - was somehow more fair and equitable than introducing conscription like the French and Spanish navies. At least you had a chance to run away from a press gang and even if you used violence to evade capture, juries could be sympathetic and lenient. So conscription was held up as the sort of nefarious and tyrannous trick you'd expect from benighted France and Spain ...
How they squared that with seizing US merchantmen on the high seas and press-ganging their crews in the run up to the war of 1812-14, I don't know ...
When poor old George III went doolally the Regency regime was one of the most repressive we ever had, although most people probably thought we were paragons of liberty compared to continental Europe.
All these things are relative.
And wore trousers.
The same thing applied, only with breeches, not trousers, in 1650s England and with the various reforms over here from the 1830s onwards.
You can always count on a bit of political argument at the table before folks are finished eating and settle down to watch a game or take a walk.
As a child, we traveled from the city to visit my grandpatents farm every year. My siblings and cousins and I would take long walks through fields with thigh-hiigh snow, with full gear...hats, scarves, mittens, boots, etc. We still talk about those good Sub-zero walks.
Here's a song that children used to sing about Thanksgiving.
(Took out link because it went to wrong song...may take longer than edit window to get it right. Will post again)
Our menu but it was more New England-y and reflected the products of the farm. As I said, "Thanksgiving foods" vary by region. Pumpkin pie and turkey usually show up in every region, though. We had chicken instead of turkey because my grandparents raised chickens.
I'm thankful for many things, including these wonderful memories.
https://youtu.be/rkQS681AotU