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Ship of Fools: Manchester Cathedral, England

The Mystery WorshipperThe Mystery Worshipper Shipmate
edited December 2018 in The Mystery Worshipper
imageShip of Fools: Manchester Cathedral, England

Scolded by the dean for mumbling our way through the responses, but his sermon was excellent.

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here


Comments

  • LeoLeo Shipmate
    Why do they feel they hve to preach on a Wednesday - people have short lunch breaks.
  • ArvicolaArvicola Shipmate Posts: 1
    I take the point, but if I'd been in a hurry I'd rather have lost 7 minutes of 'Common Worship' and kept the sermon.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    On scolding, I went to the highest of the high Anglican Churches in Sydney one afternoon for Evening Prayer or somesuch; we were scolded for not leaving the requisite number of seconds between Psalm lines and told to start again. And there were only 2 of us there.

    Sounds like a wonderful sermon.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Climacus wrote: »
    On scolding, I went to the highest of the high Anglican Churches in Sydney one afternoon for Evening Prayer or somesuch; we were scolded for not leaving the requisite number of seconds between Psalm lines and told to start again. And there were only 2 of us there.

    Sounds like a wonderful sermon.

    No wonder there was such a small congregation, Climacus....

    Re Manchester Cathedral, I believe it was at one time, at any rate, quite Low Church, so perhaps there's a long tradition of a sermon at every service. Common Worship Order One is quite easy to abbreviate, if time is pressing.

    IJ

  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    What's 'low church' got to do with the presence or otherwise of a sermon? Most RC masses (however sparsely attended or on whatever insignificant weekday) incorporate a homily on the gospel (even if the intercessions are omitted).
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Well, fair point, but I was under the impression that 'a sermon at every service' was a rather low-ish church thing, in the C of E, at least.

    I didn't appreciate that the RCC did it, so I stand duly admonished, and corrected.
    :blush:

    IJ
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    Well I don't know if that's universal practice but it's my impression from the times I have encountered it. 'Sermon' of course doesn't mean a 30 minute lecture any more than 'homily' means a 30 second chat, but obviously it's more likely to be the latter.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I'm with Leo on this one. Our cathedral here doesn't include a sermon at their weekday lunchtime Communion.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Climacus wrote: »
    On scolding, I went to the highest of the high Anglican Churches in Sydney one afternoon for Evening Prayer or somesuch; we were scolded for not leaving the requisite number of seconds between Psalm lines and told to start again. And there were only 2 of us there.

    Sounds like a wonderful sermon.

    Who did the scolding? I'd be very surprised if it were either the present rector or the (now departing for his own parish) senior associate. Did you perhaps stumble into a choir rehearsal?
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    No, no rehearsal. We said the Psalms. There were only 2 of us in the congregation.

    This was 20+ years ago. And I think, the memory is hazy, the leader of this Evening (or Afternoon...I was between classes at a nearby university) Prayer was not the rector but a man in minor orders. It did leave a sour taste tbh, but not so much I did not return for Parish Masses or Evensongs.
  • SandemaniacSandemaniac Shipmate
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Climacus wrote: »
    Re Manchester Cathedral, I believe it was at one time, at any rate, quite Low Church

    Dunno about that but in mid-Victorian times it was a wedding factory - literally dozens f weddings in a day.

    AG
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Climacus wrote: »
    No, no rehearsal. We said the Psalms. There were only 2 of us in the congregation.

    This was 20+ years ago. And I think, the memory is hazy, the leader of this Evening (or Afternoon...I was between classes at a nearby university) Prayer was not the rector but a man in minor orders. It did leave a sour taste tbh, but not so much I did not return for Parish Masses or Evensongs.

    I am not sure who it may have been at that time, but I'll ask around quietly.
  • Hookers_TrickHookers_Trick Admin Emeritus
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Re Manchester Cathedral, I believe it was at one time, at any rate, quite Low Church, so perhaps there's a long tradition of a sermon at every service. Common Worship Order One is quite easy to abbreviate, if time is pressing.

    The last time I was at Manchester Cathedral was for Ascension Day and they swung the incense with a vengeance.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Ah well - times change (and not necessarily for the worse!).
    :wink:

    /tangent/

    I suspect incense is used more often these days in English cathedrals than was the case a generation ago.

    /tangent ends/

    IJ
  • churchgeekchurchgeek Shipmate
    I was there in January, 2015. It was a delightful place to visit! The mid-day service was in the side chapel, and at the time, I didn't need a permit to take photos - or at least I wasn't made aware that I did. I made a donation, though.

    I enjoyed a chat with a verger (who I could tell was a verger because I had worked as a verger not long before), and really enjoyed seeing the Virgin of Vladimir-based icon in the Lady Chapel. (I was in town to present a paper on the Vladimir icon, so that was a lovely bonus for me!)
  • mark_in_manchestermark_in_manchester Shipmate
    I can strongly recommend Evensong - term time Sundays at 5:30pm. I often go, especially if the service at our place in the morning has left me wanting more (for either reason :smile: ).
  • CyprianCyprian Shipmate
    Things liturgically have certainly improved under the current Dean and chapter.

    On a point of interest, there are three side chapels: the Regimental Chapel, the Fraser Chapel, and the Chapel of the Holy Name (referred to informally as "the Jesus chapel"), in addition to the Lady chapel at the east end. There was, at one time, a restored St Nicholas chapel, as well. It was a children's chapel on the site of what had been the mediaeval St Nicholas altar against the south wall of the nave, but this hasn't been in evidence recently.

    Is there a decent photograph that is more recent? The one in the report is somewhat dated now. The cathedral doesn't look like that anymore.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Photos are much more difficult to process under the new software than they were under the old. Only landscape orientation is permitted -- portrait orientation will not work. (That said, many of the old reports that were ported over still have portrait-oriented photos.)

    In the case of the cathedral, the photo that the reporter submitted was, as I remember, portrait oriented and could not be cropped successfully into landscape orientation. I searched high and low on the Web for a landscape-oriented photo. I found several, but they were all protected by copyright and so we could not use them. The photo that was used is the only one I could find that appeared not to be copyrighted.

    If someone in the area would be so kind as to snap a landscape photo of the cathedral and e-mail it to me at abrmweditor@gmail.com, I would be happy to substitute it for the current one. You'll understand, I'm sure, that I am not free to travel to Manchester.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Photo has been updated with a suitable exterior shot.
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