The Circumcision and Naming of Christ

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Comments

  • I didn't say anything of the kind.

    I actually said that Mary is referenced in every single Orthodox Liturgy.

    What I did say was that as far as I am aware there are no additional references to Mary in the liturgical material for the commemoration of the Circumcision of Christ than there is on any other Sunday.

    If I didn't express myself clearly enough I apologise.

    I'd made a general point about Mary's obedience and, in retrospect linked that too specifically to compliance with the Jewish Law in relation to circumcision. @Lamb Chopped then pushed back on that one.

    FWIW the Orthodox troparion and kontakion for the Circumcision of Christ mentions compliance with the Law - in the sense that Lamb Chopped brought out with the quote from Galatians.

    I'd over-complicated things in my musings on this subject. Over-egged the pudding.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    The point I was clumsily trying to make is that whenever Mary is honoured or referenced liturgically it's on account of her obedience to God. In the Orthodox Liturgy she isn't referenced any more on 1st January than at any time of year as far as I'm aware. So I may have confused the issue.

    I admit I do not know the Orthodox liturgical calendar, but I bet the following stories are included

    The presentation of the holy child at the Temple with Simeon and Anna:
    The time Mary and Joseph lost track of the holy child when he was 12.
    The Wedding at Cana
    The time when Mary and his brothers tried to stop Jesus' ministry
    The crucifixion
    At least they are mentioned in the Western Lectionary.

    Following the Lectionary of the Orthodox Church involves reading almost every verse of all four Gospels in the course of each and every year. From this list, the first is read on February 2nd. The second is read on January 1st (where it is added to the very short account of the Circumcision). The third and fourth are each read on a weekday, where the Gospel readings tend to be sequential, covering the text not read on Saturdays or Sundays (John from Pascha to Pentecost, Matthew for 11 weeks after Pentecost, then Mark until Holy Cross (September 14th), Luke for 11 weeks after Holy Cross, then the rest of Mark).. The Crucifixion is well covered on Holy Friday, when the entire Passion narratives from all four Gospels are read in the course of three services.
  • Thanks @Ex_Organist. I knew you'd be able to enlighten us and address @Gramps49's question far better than me.

    Peace be to all!
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Moving on from the Circumcision to Epiphany which is traditionally celebrated on 6th January and which is a major public holiday on that date in many countries I have two interesting details to share. (At least I think they are interesting)
    ORF broadcast Mass from the parish of Donnersbach in Styria. The 'Three Kings' as they are known in German speaking lands are seen traversing a snowy landscape following a star in order to arrive at the parish church.just in time for Mass. To symbolise that they come from all over the world they have three painted faces - one is chalk white, one is coal black and the third is a jaundice yellow. Each colour is equally acknowledged.
    In the cathedral in Klagenfurt in the very south of Austria there must have been about 20 Kings (and Queens) both children and adults who will have been out and about announcing the birth of Jesus and collecting money for good causes. What intrigued me was that both the children and the adults were wearing as well as their crowns what were very clearly old Roman style chasubles as part of the royal robes.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Being put to good use ( and sending the trads into apoplexy at the perceived misuse of “ priestly garments”….
  • In Eastern Christiany, Theophany is celebrated on January 6th rather than Epiphany - the Baptism of Christ.

    I'm not sure how or why there was a divergence on this.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Both of these feasts commemorate liturgically the' appearance 'of Christ to the wider public.This appearance of Christ and his 'manifestation' to a wider public was first commemorated by his baptism. When a celebration of the birth of Christ became later established on 25th December,then at least in the West the 6th January was used to commemorate an earlier 'manifestation'namely that of the visit of the Magi.. The commemoration of the Baptism was celebrated on the Octave day of the Western Epiphany. This would mainly take place on a weekday and not a public holiday.
    In the wake of the Second Vatican Council the RC Church has put the feast of the Epiphany on the nearest Sunday to 6th January,except where 6th January is a public holiday (Italy,Spain,Portugal,Austria,Germany,Poland and others). The Baptism of Christ has been given greater prominence by being assigned to the Sunday after the Epiphany.
  • Thanks @Forthview, that's a helpful outline of the RC's arrangement of these dates.
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