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Ship of Fools: The Grosvenor Chapel, Mayfair, London

The Mystery WorshipperThe Mystery Worshipper Shipmate
edited January 2022 in The Mystery Worshipper

imageShip of Fools: The Grosvenor Chapel, Mayfair, London

They know how to celebrate

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here


Comments

  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I’m interested in the basis for the comment that “This is a very important church architecturally, being the church on which many typical New England-style churches in the USA were based.” I’ve generally heard the architecture of Inigo Jones and Christopher Wren put forward as prime influences on “typical” New England church architecture, but I suspect even that is an overstatement.
  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    I was puzzled by the reference as well. The ubiquitous austere white washed meeting house with the tall steeple found on town greens and commons throughout New England came from the Puritans (to distance themselves from Anglican and Papist influence on church architecture) and is still used by Congregational and Unitarian churches, as well as a few others to this day. The church is this report is very similar to the Bullfinch Churches. ( Charles Bullfinch) Sadly there are only two left. St Stephen’s in Boston, and Christ Church in Lancaster MA. The Arlington St Church in Boston is also similar. Good report.
  • boston_irishboston_irish Shipmate
    A little unknown and fun fact (imo). St Stephen’s was purchased by the Archdiocese of Boston in 1862 from the Protestants who no longer lived in the North End as the neighborhood became overwhelmingly Italian. There was also a large Irish population. Rose Kennedy was baptized and had her funeral Mass there and the church henceforth had the moniker “The Irish Church” Sorry Miss Amanda, I steered of course.
  • SojournerSojourner Shipmate
    Back in 1999 I attended an organ recital in this very church. It was ( and may still be) a place attended by expat Americans of the Episcopalian tradition. No service so could not comment on churchmanship. I recall it has a very fine organ ( sent specifications to my then choirmaster for his amusement). Will sign off before Miss Amanda chucks a hissy fit…😜😂
  • Box PewBox Pew Shipmate
    edited February 2022
    Nick, for 'typical' New England churches—and US classical churches—James Gibbs' St Martin-in-the-Fields is usually cited as the model. St Martins was promoted as a design by widely sold prints of it by countless engravers and Gibbs' own illustrated books. The architectural borrowing from St Martins is in the US often very literal, going on plagiarism. Since Gibbs was influenced by Roman precendent and was a more or less open Catholic sympathiser it is ironic that his was the architecture that captured the Puritan colonies! Alongside the finesse of Gibbs, the Grosvenor Chapel elevation is surely more curious than beautiful.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Gibbs who was of a Scottish Catholic family spent a number of years at the Scots College in Rome,though he left before ordination.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Box Pew wrote: »
    Nick, for 'typical' New England churches—and US classical churches—James Gibbs' St Martin-in-the-Fields is usually cited as the model.
    I’m familiar with lots of American churches that show the influence of St. Martin’s-in-the-Fields. Most are brick and from the late 19th or 20th C, and are not the “typical” New England meeting house. Those, as @boston_irish has said, are primarily Puritan/Congregationalist or Unitarian. To the extent that any architecture is cited as an influence, I have usually heard the churches of Jones or Wren.

    But lest we digress too far from the report and earn Miss Amanda’s consternation, the question really was just about the basis for the statement in the MW report, which possibly only @Clinking Thurible can answer.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Speaking of thuribles, it may well be that no thurifer was to be had on that particular occasion, but I understand that there are some churches where incense is burnt (or *offered*), but where there is no censing pf people or objects.

    I don't have a copy to hand, but IIRC Percy Dearmer mentions this in The Parson's Handbook, possibly for the benefit of clergy wishing to use incense (which is Biblical), but without the Roman Catholic associations.

    This would seem to fall into line with the *High Anglican* liturgy at Grosvenor Chapel.

    BTW, the rather sparse attendance, and perhaps a lack of servers (were there any?) and/or thurifer may reflect the pared-down post-Covid circumstances to be found in Other Places.

    Grosvenor Chapel does indeed have a most beautiful interior, much of which is the work of Sir Ninian Comper.
  • angloidangloid Shipmate
    A church local to me (though I last attended worship there before the present incumbent's time, so things may have changed) had a sort of brazier in front of the altar. Charcoal was lit in this and incense added at suitable moments. Less fussy than a thurifer faffing about, it suited the modern architecture and the contemplative style of liturgy. But the Grosvenor Chapel's use of a thurible suggests that their usual custom is to carry it about in the traditional way.

    Incidentally (pace the Mystery Worshipper) I believe the church is a non-parochial chapel, as its name suggests. Therefore it would have neither a parish nor a vicar. But its status may have changed.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Speaking of thuribles, it may well be that no thurifer was to be had on that particular occasion, but I understand that there are some churches where incense is burnt (or *offered*), but where there is no censing pf people or objects.

    I don't have a copy to hand, but IIRC Percy Dearmer mentions this in The Parson's Handbook, possibly for the benefit of clergy wishing to use incense (which is Biblical), but without the Roman Catholic associations.

    This would seem to fall into line with the *High Anglican* liturgy at Grosvenor Chapel.

    BTW, the rather sparse attendance, and perhaps a lack of servers (were there any?) and/or thurifer may reflect the pared-down post-Covid circumstances to be found in Other Places.

    Grosvenor Chapel does indeed have a most beautiful interior, much of which is the work of Sir Ninian Comper.

    I have been to non Eucharistic services in France (monastic hours) where incense has Benn burned continuously in a brazier before the altar. It made singing a bit of a challenge.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Miss Amanda will tolerate your mentioning instances where incense is burned rather than swung -- but let's not wander too far from Mayfair, shall we? Certainly not as far as France!

    As for the architectural claim -- I believe the reporter may have consulted Wikipedia, which makes the claim but does not elaborate further. Personally I can't think of any churches over here that resemble Grosvenor Chapel in style.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited February 2022
    There is a photo on the Chapel's website (I cannot link to it, as it is Not Secure!) which shows the Eucharistic Prayer under way.

    In front of the altar stands a server, and it does look very much as if he is holding a smoking thurible...

    The Chapel is apparently still non-parochial, although they say that they have been serving the parish of Mayfair since 1731, and that they are part of the C of E's Diocese of London. There are, I'm sure, plenty of churches of all types in the area, so an eclectic, or *gathered*, congregation is to be expected.

    Another baptism is to be held within the Eucharist this coming Sunday.
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