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Playing God ?

DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
edited September 2023 in Epiphanies
Scientist have grown an embryo like thing, from stem cells. This seems to me like a technology that is ripe for abuse. Should we really be doing this ?

Comments

  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Doublethink wrote: »
    Scientist have grown an embryo like thing, from stem cells. This seems to me like a technology that is ripe for abuse. Should we really be doing this ?

    A lot of technology is ripe for abuse. Surely it's the abuse that's wrong?
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    True, but it’s like Pratchett says: “Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry.”

    Which is why you don’t put that switch there.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Doublethink wrote: »
    True, but it’s like Pratchett says: “Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry.”

    Which is why you don’t put that switch there.

    Someone should have told God that before he put that tree in Eden.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Yup !
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Doublethink wrote: »
    True, but it’s like Pratchett says: “Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry.”

    Which is why you don’t put that switch there.

    Up to a point, but should we have avoided developing CRISPR so that the muppet in China couldn't make his dubious attempt to make babies immune to HIV?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Way above my pay grade.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    What bothers me is this:
    This would not be illegal, even in the UK, as embryo models are legally distinct from embryos.

    If the thing is in fact (scientifically) an embryo, just with a different beginning, then the legal distinction means that people will be able to carry out all sorts of atrocities on it (and doubtless will).

    Legal distinctions that did not line up with science have been the justification for horrific abuses before now, including various pogroms and slavery.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Exactly. "We" are not doing this -- a small number of people who haven't consulted the rest of us are doing this. Scientists make a significant development with very challenging implications (like this, or AI), then we find out what they're doing, then we collectively start figuring out what it means for our societies, then our leaders start figuring out regulations. Our legal systems and indeed our whole societies are not nimble enough to figure out how to cope before these scientific cats are out of the bag.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Doublethink wrote: »
    Scientist have grown an embryo like thing, from stem cells. This seems to me like a technology that is ripe for abuse. Should we really be doing this?

    I guess the question is whether a model embryo has the ability to develop into a human being. This ability is the reason we treat human embryos differently than other forms of human tissue. If not, then this is no more problematic than any other science that involves human tissue. If so, then the same rules dealing with human embryos should apply.
    Ruth wrote: »
    Exactly. "We" are not doing this -- . . .

    Aren't we? A lot of people create "embryo like thing(s)", they just use a different technique.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »

    I guess the question is whether a model embryo has the ability to develop into a human being. This ability is the reason we treat human embryos differently than other forms of human tissue. If not, then this is no more problematic than any other science that involves human tissue. If so, then the same rules dealing with human embryos should apply.

    This is true. Unfortunately, since it is forbidden to make the attempt (to have the possible embryo go on developing past I-think-it-was 14 days, we have no way of knowing whether it can develop into a human being or not. Which makes this criterion impossible to apply.

  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Ruth wrote: »
    Exactly. "We" are not doing this -- . . .

    Aren't we? A lot of people create "embryo like thing(s)", they just use a different technique.

    And this is exactly the same?
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    Some people would probably claim that the more commonly used method is more fun.
  • Merry VoleMerry Vole Shipmate
    My impression is that the research is genuinely about trying to help with problems around IVF and reducing the chances of miscarriage. Which with young men seemingly being more commitment averse is a growing issue for young women wanting to 'start a family' without too much delay.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    Lamb Chopped wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »

    I guess the question is whether a model embryo has the ability to develop into a human being. This ability is the reason we treat human embryos differently than other forms of human tissue. If not, then this is no more problematic than any other science that involves human tissue. If so, then the same rules dealing with human embryos should apply.

    This is true. Unfortunately, since it is forbidden to make the attempt (to have the possible embryo go on developing past I-think-it-was 14 days, we have no way of knowing whether it can develop into a human being or not. Which makes this criterion impossible to apply.

    I don't think that's necessarily right. There may well be good evidence from existing knowledge (perhaps from animal experiments) about how embryos produced in this way might be expected to develop, or not.
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