The Orthodox don't tend to go in for embalming either.
I'm obviously in favour of burials rather than cremation but it's not a simple or problem-free option as @Lamb Chopped has indicated.
Not heard of concrete vaults but imagine there must be a geological reason for that, shifting sand or soil or something along those lines.
Space is clearly an issue and there are problems with that in Greece.
Whether or not true, I don't know, but I understood the reason for mandating concrete vaults in some jurisdictions was the undertakers' lobby ensuring a lucrative market for themselves in completely unnecessary goods and services.
@pease many churches seek "eco church" certification, and there has in general been a huge increase in acknowledgement of the climate emergency in many UK churches. Certainly, a lot of the more conservative Evangelical suspicion towards anthropogenic climate change seems to have faded away or disappeared entirely in recent years. I think perhaps the lack of conversation around the environment and death is more to do with not wanting to discuss death at all.
I'd agree that's true to an extent. However, I think there's also something of a conflict of interest for churches - it seems unlikely that many would relish revising doctrines (or dogma) about death in the light of climate change. And gaining eco church certification does not require them to.
How many churches or ministers have changed their policies to proscribe or discommend cremation on environmental grounds?
@pease I don't think any revision of doctrine would be necessary - I can't think of any church that requires cremation. Bringing environmental considerations into the conversation from a church perspective is not at all the same as proscribing any particular behaviour. I'm not sure why there's the leap to proscribing things rather than encouraging congregations to at least have more open discussions about deliberately choosing more environmentally-friendly burial options, and encouraging their use from a Christian perspective. It's not like churches began to embrace Fairtrade based on a belief that non-Fairtrade products should be proscribed. I'm talking about the same kind of encouragement of a beneficial option rather than rejecting the existing options wholesale.
@Baptist Trainfan, our Shipmate @Lamb Chopped lives in the US. She can answer the questions about the particular conditions governing burials in her State.
I understand that some US States stipulate that embalming must take place if the corpse is to be displayed in an open coffin.
As a caveat to my comments upthread, the Orthodox avoid embalming if possible but will alow it if there is a long gap before the burial or climate conditions make it unfeasible or if relatives request it.
I don't think we'd over-rule relatives wishes.
I would certainly favour wicker or cardboard or other 'eco' coffins or simply a shroud rather than hefty wooden ones with lots of brass fittings but I'm not sure whether that's a more general preference in Orthodox circles.
I would certainly favour wicker or cardboard or other 'eco' coffins or simply a shroud rather than hefty wooden ones with lots of brass fittings...
I doubt I'm alone in being surprised at the cost of the cheapest MFI foil-wrapped wood-effect chipboard wardrobe my Mum was cremated in a couple of years back. I was glad the pall-bearers didn't attempt to lift it by the 'brass' (plastic) handles. It'd be nice to avoid all that and go in the oven in a sack, but I guess if my kids have other ideas, that'll be up to them. Maybe I could make one myself if I looked up the regs (old pallets are free...), but then I'd have to keep it somewhere.
The bigger issue with cremation is the air pollution caused by burning - even if the fuel is renewable, it doesn't solve the problem of air pollution. Think of wood-burning stoves, great from a renewable energy perspective (and also very efficient) but they still cause serious harm via the particulate in the smoke. Smoke is carcinogenic regardless of what is being burned, which is why smoking things that aren't tobacco still hugely increases the risk of cancer. There's also no way of burning a body that doesn't cause harmful smoke.
It's possible things are not quite so bleak as we might fear. It's a shame the former shipmate (I hope I have the right one!) I mentioned upthread is no longer around - he was the Chief Engineer in a waste-burning power station in the UK. I enjoyed a long conversation one time he was visiting the North about flue-gas scrubbing, filtration etc etc (I was a bit sceptical about CHP from waste) and he mentioned that the industry his was most closely allied to, was that of firms building crematoria.
(Incidentally a friend works for a former farmer who bought two environment-agency approved pet cremation systems (I expect there's a word for that...I imply the size of domestic pets, not horses) at £70k each, and makes considerable money dealing with deceased pets around Manchester and Cheshire. 70 grand implies quite a lot of clean-up tech built-in. I don't know what the consumables, fuel and servicing costs set him back, but I am told a dog costs about £300. We enquired whether the deal ran to music during the 'service', and were told most owners liked a bit of Bach.)
What @Lamb Chopped describes is typical of the US in my experience. Where I am, vaults are not legally required, but many of not most cemeteries require them, ostensibly to prevent ground sinking and to make groundskeeping easier. That said, I would not discount the motivation @Stercus Tauri suggests.
Is wildlife also a concern? I know that the US generally has more wildlife that could create a problem with coffin-less burials - I can't think of any animal in the UK that would cause serious problems in that area.
@mark_in_manchester I would certainly welcome cremation becoming greener or at least less polluting (and also the same for wood-burning stoves...). I know that cremation is popular with pet owners as it reduces the risk of wildlife digging up buried remains, and it's also a lot easier to take cremains with you if you move house. I'm not at all opposed to cremation from a moral or theological angle, I just dislike the environmental effects.
I would certainly favour wicker or cardboard or other 'eco' coffins or simply a shroud rather than hefty wooden ones with lots of brass fittings...
I doubt I'm alone in being surprised at the cost of the cheapest MFI foil-wrapped wood-effect chipboard wardrobe my Mum was cremated in a couple of years back. I was glad the pall-bearers didn't attempt to lift it by the 'brass' (plastic) handles. It'd be nice to avoid all that and go in the oven in a sack, but I guess if my kids have other ideas, that'll be up to them. Maybe I could make one myself if I looked up the regs (old pallets are free...), but then I'd have to keep it somewhere.
I once took a funeral for someone who had made their own coffin and used it as a coffee table….
Comments
Whether or not true, I don't know, but I understood the reason for mandating concrete vaults in some jurisdictions was the undertakers' lobby ensuring a lucrative market for themselves in completely unnecessary goods and services.
How many churches or ministers have changed their policies to proscribe or discommend cremation on environmental grounds?
I understand that some US States stipulate that embalming must take place if the corpse is to be displayed in an open coffin.
As a caveat to my comments upthread, the Orthodox avoid embalming if possible but will alow it if there is a long gap before the burial or climate conditions make it unfeasible or if relatives request it.
I don't think we'd over-rule relatives wishes.
I would certainly favour wicker or cardboard or other 'eco' coffins or simply a shroud rather than hefty wooden ones with lots of brass fittings but I'm not sure whether that's a more general preference in Orthodox circles.
I doubt I'm alone in being surprised at the cost of the cheapest MFI foil-wrapped wood-effect chipboard wardrobe my Mum was cremated in a couple of years back. I was glad the pall-bearers didn't attempt to lift it by the 'brass' (plastic) handles. It'd be nice to avoid all that and go in the oven in a sack, but I guess if my kids have other ideas, that'll be up to them. Maybe I could make one myself if I looked up the regs (old pallets are free...), but then I'd have to keep it somewhere.
It's possible things are not quite so bleak as we might fear. It's a shame the former shipmate (I hope I have the right one!) I mentioned upthread is no longer around - he was the Chief Engineer in a waste-burning power station in the UK. I enjoyed a long conversation one time he was visiting the North about flue-gas scrubbing, filtration etc etc (I was a bit sceptical about CHP from waste) and he mentioned that the industry his was most closely allied to, was that of firms building crematoria.
(Incidentally a friend works for a former farmer who bought two environment-agency approved pet cremation systems (I expect there's a word for that...I imply the size of domestic pets, not horses) at £70k each, and makes considerable money dealing with deceased pets around Manchester and Cheshire. 70 grand implies quite a lot of clean-up tech built-in. I don't know what the consumables, fuel and servicing costs set him back, but I am told a dog costs about £300. We enquired whether the deal ran to music during the 'service', and were told most owners liked a bit of Bach.)
@mark_in_manchester I would certainly welcome cremation becoming greener or at least less polluting (and also the same for wood-burning stoves...). I know that cremation is popular with pet owners as it reduces the risk of wildlife digging up buried remains, and it's also a lot easier to take cremains with you if you move house. I'm not at all opposed to cremation from a moral or theological angle, I just dislike the environmental effects.
I once took a funeral for someone who had made their own coffin and used it as a coffee table….