"Mutton dressed up as lamb", overheard in a recent conversation. This being a small country town, we often hear, and use, such relatively archaic expressions.
Our family went to see Wicked: For Good last night, and one of the songs in act II of Wicked is “No Good Deed.” I was surprised this morning when my 25-year-old daughter said she wasn’t familiar with the expression “no good deed goes unpunished,” which is central to the song.
When did anyone last hear "Wotcher?" It was understood to be short for "What cheer?" and was a common greeting among young schoolboys where I lived in Hertfordshire in the mid 50s. I am sure I never heard a girl use it.
When did anyone last hear "Wotcher?" It was understood to be short for "What cheer?" and was a common greeting among young schoolboys where I lived in Hertfordshire in the mid 50s. I am sure I never heard a girl use it.
I only know “Wotcher” from Harry Potter, but its use in those books (primarily by Tonks, I think?) might indicate more recent usage.
When did anyone last hear "Wotcher?" It was understood to be short for "What cheer?" and was a common greeting among young schoolboys where I lived in Hertfordshire in the mid 50s. I am sure I never heard a girl use it.
When did anyone last hear "Wotcher?" It was understood to be short for "What cheer?" and was a common greeting among young schoolboys where I lived in Hertfordshire in the mid 50s. I am sure I never heard a girl use it.
There's a bloke (more mature end of the age spectrum) on our street who uses it. I think he's originally cockney ish.
I used to hear it growing up in Essex.
I didn't know much about the history of the word until I asked Auntie Google just now. There are at least two places in the USA named "What Cheer" e.g. https://whatcheerprovidence.com/what-cheer/. I had a vague memory that it is to be found somewhere in Dickens, which sounds right, but am not sure where.
I feel wotcha is one of those phrases used to pretend to be cockney/East End. As we used to live in the East end, I am sure we did hear it, but not a lot.
Dick van Dyke probably used it in Mary Poppins. Which would be the death knell to any actual cockney using it.
I always thought of it as the awkward shaped cupboard under the stairs where the junk that was too good to be thrown out was put. Also the winter boots. We haven't got stairs in this house, so I suppose that's why I haven't used it for a while.
Yes, I remember the sense of cupboard under the stairs, and latterly, the sense of hole in a partition for sexual encounters, of an anonymous sort. Maybe one usage declined as another ascended, if that's the right word. But I expect that stair cupboards have declined in modern housing. Anonymous sex? Don't know.
The “un-innocent” meaning is the only meaning I’ve ever heard or known. That’s nothing to do with how my mind works, but rather all about how the term is used.
The “un-innocent” meaning is the only meaning I’ve ever heard or known. That’s nothing to do with how my mind works, but rather all about how the term is used.
I'm exactly the opposite - I only know the cupboard-under-the-stairs meaning.
I always thought of it as the awkward shaped cupboard under the stairs where the junk that was too good to be thrown out was put. Also the winter boots. We haven't got stairs in this house, so I suppose that's why I haven't used it for a while.
But I expect that stair cupboards have declined in modern housing.
To the extent that modern houses have stairs, they must surely have some otherwise un-useful space beneath them, surely? I suppose you could go open-plan, but then you just have the useless space out in free view, rather than being walled away and put to use.
Our cupboard under the stairs was a pantry, when I lived at home. I don't think it has to be under the stairs - just the place where thinks go and you never want to have to explore to find.
The more recent meaning is one I know as well. But in fairness, I have never used the term in either meaning.
I watch these property repair programmes and it is often the case with smaller or newer houses that the staircase opens off the main living space. Often, hallways have been abolished in the interests of enlargement. In fact, it's frequently a feature that there are few, if any, built-in cupboards. Other than the kitchen units, you are not expected to store stuff.
I watch these property repair programmes and it is often the case with smaller or newer houses that the staircase opens off the main living space. Often, hallways have been abolished in the interests of enlargement. In fact, it's frequently a feature that there are few, if any, built-in cupboards. Other than the kitchen units, you are not expected to store stuff.
Well, sure, but what's under the stairs? Even if the stairs are in the living space, what do you do with the roughly triangular space underneath them? You've got a space that's 32" or so wide, and roughly triangular in height. What do you do with a space in your living room 32" deep, and varying from 0" to say 48" in height (taller than that could be part of the room, but ...)
I watch these property repair programmes and it is often the case with smaller or newer houses that the staircase opens off the main living space. Often, hallways have been abolished in the interests of enlargement. In fact, it's frequently a feature that there are few, if any, built-in cupboards. Other than the kitchen units, you are not expected to store stuff.
Well, sure, but what's under the stairs? Even if the stairs are in the living space, what do you do with the roughly triangular space underneath them? You've got a space that's 32" or so wide, and roughly triangular in height. What do you do with a space in your living room 32" deep, and varying from 0" to say 48" in height (taller than that could be part of the room, but ...)
Often in my experience it’s where air returns or other HVAC system components are.
I watch these property repair programmes and it is often the case with smaller or newer houses that the staircase opens off the main living space. Often, hallways have been abolished in the interests of enlargement. In fact, it's frequently a feature that there are few, if any, built-in cupboards. Other than the kitchen units, you are not expected to store stuff.
Well, sure, but what's under the stairs? Even if the stairs are in the living space, what do you do with the roughly triangular space underneath them? You've got a space that's 32" or so wide, and roughly triangular in height. What do you do with a space in your living room 32" deep, and varying from 0" to say 48" in height (taller than that could be part of the room, but ...)
Our almost-finished almost-new-build has a hallway and an understairs cupboard. In our case it is the distribution point for the underfloor heating and, once everything is working, internet connectivity. It might also end up storing an extra table for the kitchen and some folding chairs.
I watch these property repair programmes and it is often the case with smaller or newer houses that the staircase opens off the main living space. Often, hallways have been abolished in the interests of enlargement. In fact, it's frequently a feature that there are few, if any, built-in cupboards. Other than the kitchen units, you are not expected to store stuff.
Well, sure, but what's under the stairs? Even if the stairs are in the living space, what do you do with the roughly triangular space underneath them? You've got a space that's 32" or so wide, and roughly triangular in height. What do you do with a space in your living room 32" deep, and varying from 0" to say 48" in height (taller than that could be part of the room, but ...)
One of my colleagues has the desk for her home office setup in that space. Monitors at the tall end, laptop and mouse further over, then storage in the section too low to get the desk into.
Seeing as we've touched upon sex does anyone still come across the phrase 'I/we are going to put bromide in your tea'?
I remember hearing about that at secondary school (boys, with boarders, it was that kind of place) and wondering 'Bromide of what?'. Looking at the brown fuming liquid (am I remembering right?) in the chemistry lab didn't seem to offer many clues.
My Dad was convinced that bromide was put in soldiers' tea, to stop them getting randy. As far as I can see, it was used in WW1 but not 2. A sedative, I think.
Talking on the phone to a 96 year old relative today she used the phrase "before you could say knife" to describe something that happened quickly. I've certainly heard her use that one before but I don't know anyone else who says it so I guess it is a dated phrase!
Comments
Oh dear!
Eye wateringly bad!
talk about innuendoes!
You will, dear Enoch, you will!
Guilty as charged, m'lud!
I was wondering why a reggae band was named after a rather duff medieval king!
Oddly, I used it yesterday in a text to Mrs Spike
There's a bloke (more mature end of the age spectrum) on our street who uses it. I think he's originally cockney ish.
I used to hear it growing up in Essex.
I had always thought - don’t quite remember why - that ‘what cheer’ was a mediaeval greeting, which obviously was/became pronounced as ‘wotcher’
MMM
Dick van Dyke probably used it in Mary Poppins. Which would be the death knell to any actual cockney using it.
I don't want it explained, thank you. I expect I can guess, although the thought would not have come naturally.
Seems to me that nowadays most words can have a far-from-innocent meaning, if that's the way your mind works
I'm exactly the opposite - I only know the cupboard-under-the-stairs meaning.
Ah. the "cupboard under the stairs".
To the extent that modern houses have stairs, they must surely have some otherwise un-useful space beneath them, surely? I suppose you could go open-plan, but then you just have the useless space out in free view, rather than being walled away and put to use.
I have innocently used this dated phrase at work to colleagues, to their amusement.
Heron
We had a cupboard under the stairs, and it was called the cupboard etc
The more recent meaning is one I know as well. But in fairness, I have never used the term in either meaning.
Well, sure, but what's under the stairs? Even if the stairs are in the living space, what do you do with the roughly triangular space underneath them? You've got a space that's 32" or so wide, and roughly triangular in height. What do you do with a space in your living room 32" deep, and varying from 0" to say 48" in height (taller than that could be part of the room, but ...)
No, but I once knew someone who felt he was living proof that it had been done while he was doing his statutory military service in Sweden.
That space is now amalgamated with the living space This sort of thing
One of my colleagues has the desk for her home office setup in that space. Monitors at the tall end, laptop and mouse further over, then storage in the section too low to get the desk into.
I remember hearing about that at secondary school (boys, with boarders, it was that kind of place) and wondering 'Bromide of what?'. Looking at the brown fuming liquid (am I remembering right?) in the chemistry lab didn't seem to offer many clues.
Another murine reference from the same era - 'Thon one's that cute he could mind mice at a crossroads'.