Any wealthy country that is really serious about raising its birthrate needs to do something about providing good quality affordable housing for working age people.
...and education. But that would destroy the present incarnation of the Republican party.
The sort of thing that drives me spare, is Reform complaining that women aren’t having enough children whilst simultaneously complaining too many people are migrating to the country (regardless of status). Do you think we need more people or not ? Make up your fucking mind !
They have made up their minds. They want more white English people, and fewer brown people.
One of the nordic countries has encouraged women to have children by saying they will never pay tax again or some such if they go back to work.
That's a much better idea if you want to keep social cohesion and the birth rate up.
Do you know which country? In 2025, Sweden had a birth rate of 1.44, Norway 1.42, and Finland 1.3, all well below the replacement rate. My children have friends in both Finland and Norway, who are in the target age range for having children. They feel that the best incentive to increase the birth rate is increased paternity leave, and fathers sharing the burden of child-rearing and domestic chores equally.
They also want to reintroduce the two-child benefit cap, so they only want rich women to have lots of children. Or maybe they're not serious about wanting women to have lots of children. Who can say? It's even more incoherent than the rest of their 'policies.'
Declining birth rates in the west are a serious problem. It means the economy cannot pay for the elderly population, the baby boomers and more. It's when we started going into debt as western nations.
Hence rapid immigration in western countries, to try stall that.
But that creates its own problems.
One of the nordic countries has encouraged women to have children by saying they will never pay tax again or some such if they go back to work.
That's a much better idea if you want to keep social cohesion and the birth rate up.
I thought rapid immigration was because people in the countries they’re fleeing from are in desperate situations there.
And what problems does that immigration cause, and for whom?
Apparently immigration causes problems for people who think their nation should be only occupied with people who have white skin. Though complaining about immigration can distract people from the contents of files on Epstein, and we should all remember Epstein.
This is rather off-thread, but...
A low birth-rate is only an anxiety in the short term, when a large cohort passes into the 'needing care' bracket and the cohort in employment (and so paying tax to fund services) is relatively small. In the longer term, the population rebalances (with all age cohorts smaller) and this brings many desirable consequences, including less pressure on land and housing, lower emissions and power demand.
In the year I was born the world population was of the order of 2.7bn, a density of 18/sq km. It is now over 8.3bn, a density of 56/sq km. Managed, ie non-coercive, population reduction would be by far the most effective strategy for mitigating global warming. Unfortunately, politicians think in terms of 5yr horizons, not 50.
Controversial?
One of the nordic countries has encouraged women to have children by saying they will never pay tax again or some such if they go back to work.
That's a much better idea if you want to keep social cohesion and the birth rate up.
Do you know which country? In 2025, Sweden had a birth rate of 1.44, Norway 1.42, and Finland 1.3, all well below the replacement rate. My children have friends in both Finland and Norway, who are in the target age range for having children. They feel that the best incentive to increase the birth rate is increased paternity leave, and fathers sharing the burden of child-rearing and domestic chores equally.
Hmmnnn. Can't find the reference now. Saw it on the news. Might be confusing it with Hungary. They have one of the most aggressive policies in the world. If you have two or more children the mother doesn't have to pay income tax for life.
Poland apparently has good tax rates too for mums.
But looks like nordic countries do have significant paid parental leave and some universal childcare.
As for father's sharing the burden of child rearing and domestic chores equally. LOL. Good luck with that.
Any wealthy country that is really serious about raising its birthrate needs to do something about providing good quality affordable housing for working age people.
As for father's sharing the burden of child rearing and domestic chores equally. LOL. Good luck with that.
What a strange thing to say.
All the young men I know with families share child rearing and chores. (I know plenty as my son's are that age) My son took a year's parental leave and still does half of everything.
I'm 68 and, when my boys were little, my husband was homemaker while I went to work - as my salary was much higher.
Mr Boogs still does half of all chores - whyever not?
So declining birth rates are a "serious problem" But the root cause of declining birth rates ISTM is that it takes two salaries to cover the cost of housing, and if the mother is working full time to provide one of those salaries and the main burden of childcare and domestic also fall on her, then one child might be possible, but two (slightly below the replacement rate of 2.1) becomes impossible.
You can't think that declining birth rates are that serious, @WhimsicalChristian if your response to solutions is LOL. Good luck with that.
But this is straying from the topic of this thread, which is Trump.
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
FWIW, Minneapolis remains on Our Place's online pew-sheet, in the paragraph asking people to pray for war-zones world-wide. The list grows ever longer...
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
I didn't realize you are my northern neighbor. How nice. Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
You must mean "the illegal" immigrant community remains thoroughly terrorized, because my immigrant Persian friends are elated and dancing in the streets of Los Angeles
What can this mean? His medics won't say, of course, but does he have some Fell Disease, which may (or may not) be significant? I guess it could be a reaction to his orange make-up, or to the glue with which he sticks his hair onto his head...
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
I didn't realize you are my northern neighbor. How nice. Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
You must mean "the illegal" immigrant community remains thoroughly terrorized, because my immigrant Persian friends are elated and dancing in the streets of Los Angeles
Oh hell no.
As a former Angelena note living in the Midwest, I tell you straight: the WHOLE immigrant community is terrified, including U S citizens, and that is true across this country. It has little to do with the war, and everything to do with ICE and the hostile attitude and behaviors of the current administration. In my own circle we've lost people to ICE, including one man who was picked up at his parole officer's the day after his mother died, and was told then and there to choose a country to be exiled to (Vietnam being unwilling to take deportees). In despair he answered, "Anywhere--it doesn't matter," and by the next day killed himself in custody. And this is a single story among the many, many inhumane things that are happening now across the country.
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
I didn't realize you are my northern neighbor. How nice. Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
You must mean "the illegal" immigrant community remains thoroughly terrorized, because my immigrant Persian friends are elated and dancing in the streets of Los Angeles
I’ve no doubt about that, I’ve met Persians here (in the U.K.) and they only mention Iran to clarify if needed. We do have a lot of refugees from “Iran”, and while a genuine regime change could reduce the flow of refugees and potentially persuade Persians here to return, it’s going to take more than bombs and missiles to overthrow the current regime and install a democratic, stable and lasting government, let alone one the USA & Israel are happy with.
It is whispered abroad (well, on a few YouTube channels, for what they're worth) that Trump is unlikely to live much longer, or at least to be able to act as President.
The last few televised remarks of Trump show a very tired, very old man. Awfully hard conducting a war for a nearly 80-year-old man, I imagine.
When Trump visited the U.K. during his first presidency he looked older than Her Majesty the Queen, in terms of posture, movement and manners and that was nearly seven years ago, when he was nearly 72 and Her Majesty 92.
If I had to guess, I'd be inclined to think that the skin cream they're speaking of is an anti-cancer treatment. It wouldn't be at all surprising if he had skin cancer at his age, especially given his coloring.
If I had to guess, I'd be inclined to think that the skin cream they're speaking of is an anti-cancer treatment. It wouldn't be at all surprising if he had skin cancer at his age, especially given his coloring.
And his extended periods of time out on a golf course.
Not all skin cancers are malignant, but, even so, they are not nice to have.
Some can be fatal - I recall one such patient from my time (several years ago) in an NHS Ambulance Service Trust. A sad story, but the person concerned spent too much time out in the sunshine...and realised his folly, far too late.
I have to treat a spot on my nose every once in a while. Luckily, if you had seen me growing up, shirtless in the desert all the time--had a number of sunburns, I should be covered with cancer spots.
Yeah, I'm almost certainly doomed--I've had a pre-melanoma already. But I have a dermatologist I see religiously, and I've made sure my son (who has half his father's coloring) stays the hell out of the sun without sunscreen.
Hmmnnn. Can't find the reference now. Saw it on the news. Might be confusing it with Hungary. They have one of the most aggressive policies in the world. If you have two or more children the mother doesn't have to pay income tax for life.
Maybe you didn't see my host post. Restrict your posts on this thread to posts about Trump.
That goes for everybody else tempted to continue this tangent.
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
I didn't realize you are my northern neighbor. How nice. Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
You must mean "the illegal" immigrant community remains thoroughly terrorized, because my immigrant Persian friends are elated and dancing in the streets of Los Angeles
I’ve no doubt about that, I’ve met Persians here (in the U.K.) and they only mention Iran to clarify if needed. We do have a lot of refugees from “Iran”, and while a genuine regime change could reduce the flow of refugees and potentially persuade Persians here to return, it’s going to take more than bombs and missiles to overthrow the current regime and install a democratic, stable and lasting government, let alone one the USA & Israel are happy with.
It was fascinating to see American, Iranian and Israeli flags waving side by side at the celebratory rallies, supporting the President's actions. So encouraging.
Still, I suspect that few (if any) of these legal immigrant refugees would elect to return to Iran. It would be nice for them to freely travel and visit however, much like I enjoy doing to visit family in Canada. I left because I could and though it truly is a nice place to visit, I wouldn't want to live there again.
The other thing that seems to have fallen out of the news is ICE - are they still marauding in Minneapolis ?
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
I didn't realize you are my northern neighbor. How nice. Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
You must mean "the illegal" immigrant community remains thoroughly terrorized, because my immigrant Persian friends are elated and dancing in the streets of Los Angeles
I’ve no doubt about that, I’ve met Persians here (in the U.K.) and they only mention Iran to clarify if needed. We do have a lot of refugees from “Iran”, and while a genuine regime change could reduce the flow of refugees and potentially persuade Persians here to return, it’s going to take more than bombs and missiles to overthrow the current regime and install a democratic, stable and lasting government, let alone one the USA & Israel are happy with.
It was fascinating to see American, Iranian and Israeli flags waving side by side at the celebratory rallies, supporting the President's actions. So encouraging.
Still, I suspect that few (if any) of these legal immigrant refugees would elect to return to Iran. It would be nice for them to freely travel and visit however, much like I enjoy doing to visit family in Canada. I left because I could and though it truly is a nice place to visit, I wouldn't want to live there again.
I'm sure Trump will revoke their refugee status soon enough.
If I had to guess, I'd be inclined to think that the skin cream they're speaking of is an anti-cancer treatment. It wouldn't be at all surprising if he had skin cancer at his age, especially given his coloring.
The White House said it was preventative, and I saw a doctor on Bluesky and another in Newsweek say there do exist preventative creams for skin cancer, typically used when someone has had pre-cancerous lesions. And that it's not a big deal.
I didn't realize you are my northern neighbor. How nice.
Not especially.
Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
There isn't anything close to 500,000 Iranians in the city of Los Angeles, or even in the greater LA area, or even in the entire state of California. You could have looked it up. Get your basic facts correct before you offer up your opinions.
Hmmnnn. Can't find the reference now. Saw it on the news. Might be confusing it with Hungary. They have one of the most aggressive policies in the world. If you have two or more children the mother doesn't have to pay income tax for life.
Maybe you didn't see my host post. Restrict your posts on this thread to posts about Trump.
That goes for everybody else tempted to continue this tangent.
Dafyd Hell Host
I'm sorry. I didn't see it.
But may I please just say my comment about "LOL, good luck with that" was taken completely the wrong way? I completely approve of men assisting with chores and childrearing. It's just that, at least in Australia, women still bear the majority brunt of it.
Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
There isn't anything close to 500,000 Iranians in the city of Los Angeles, or even in the greater LA area, or even in the entire state of California. You could have looked it up. Get your basic facts correct before you offer up your opinions.
How snarky. I looked it up.
Community & Diaspora Estimates: Many local and community sources estimate the population to be between 500,000 and 700,000 people of Iranian descent in the broader Southern California/Los Angeles metropolitan area. This represents the largest concentration of Iranians outside of Iran.
The estimated numbers listed in the wikipedia numbers seem to include the whole of Southern California, not just LA
Possibly, yes. The higher community estimates (500,000+) typically come from a combination of academic research, community-led data projects, and institutional "write-in" analyses. These sources argue that official Census figures undercount the population due to the lack of a specific "Iranian" or "Middle Eastern" category on most forms.
Local historians and journalists frequently use the higher 600,000+ figure by factoring in second- and third-generation Iranian Americans who may not be captured in primary immigration statistics
The larger point isn't with respect to actual, uncounted numbers, but whether these diaspora immigrants were supportive and celebrating Donald Trump's decisive actions.
I'm beginning to wonder how long it'll be before Trump proclaims himself as the returning Christ.
Some of his worshippers seem to be heading in that direction already, using quasi-religious language, and we hear that some military commanders are also looking forward to Armageddon...
Comments
...and education. But that would destroy the present incarnation of the Republican party.
They have made up their minds. They want more white English people, and fewer brown people.
In fact it isn’t a Nordic country, but Hungary.
I thought rapid immigration was because people in the countries they’re fleeing from are in desperate situations there.
And what problems does that immigration cause, and for whom?
A low birth-rate is only an anxiety in the short term, when a large cohort passes into the 'needing care' bracket and the cohort in employment (and so paying tax to fund services) is relatively small. In the longer term, the population rebalances (with all age cohorts smaller) and this brings many desirable consequences, including less pressure on land and housing, lower emissions and power demand.
In the year I was born the world population was of the order of 2.7bn, a density of 18/sq km. It is now over 8.3bn, a density of 56/sq km. Managed, ie non-coercive, population reduction would be by far the most effective strategy for mitigating global warming. Unfortunately, politicians think in terms of 5yr horizons, not 50.
Controversial?
Dafyd Hell Host
Hmmnnn. Can't find the reference now. Saw it on the news. Might be confusing it with Hungary. They have one of the most aggressive policies in the world. If you have two or more children the mother doesn't have to pay income tax for life.
Poland apparently has good tax rates too for mums.
But looks like nordic countries do have significant paid parental leave and some universal childcare.
As for father's sharing the burden of child rearing and domestic chores equally. LOL. Good luck with that.
Fair.
Any decent father will do that if both parents are working. The fact that you think it's laughable reflects on you more than anything else.
What a strange thing to say.
All the young men I know with families share child rearing and chores. (I know plenty as my son's are that age) My son took a year's parental leave and still does half of everything.
I'm 68 and, when my boys were little, my husband was homemaker while I went to work - as my salary was much higher.
Mr Boogs still does half of all chores - whyever not?
You can't think that declining birth rates are that serious, @WhimsicalChristian if your response to solutions is
LOL. Good luck with that.
But this is straying from the topic of this thread, which is Trump.
Fuck you. Plenty of fathers do exactly that, every day.
Yikes.
The ICE and Border Patrol presence has been significantly reduced, but they're still there. It's like the greater Los Angeles area, where I live - the surge from last summer is gone, but people are still taken every day. The immigrant population remains thoroughly terrorized.
FWIW, Minneapolis remains on Our Place's online pew-sheet, in the paragraph asking people to pray for war-zones world-wide. The list grows ever longer...
I didn't realize you are my northern neighbor. How nice. Have you witnessed the Iranian celebrations in Los Angeles? You have the largest Persian diaspora community in the US with some estimates of 500,000 or more in Los Angeles alone. They have been overwhelmingly supportive and grateful. I have many Persian friends, and that is what they always call themselves-- never Iranian. They are joyful.
You must mean "the illegal" immigrant community remains thoroughly terrorized, because my immigrant Persian friends are elated and dancing in the streets of Los Angeles
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/mar/02/trump-neck-rash
What can this mean? His medics won't say, of course, but does he have some Fell Disease, which may (or may not) be significant? I guess it could be a reaction to his orange make-up, or to the glue with which he sticks his hair onto his head...
Oh hell no.
As a former Angelena note living in the Midwest, I tell you straight: the WHOLE immigrant community is terrified, including U S citizens, and that is true across this country. It has little to do with the war, and everything to do with ICE and the hostile attitude and behaviors of the current administration. In my own circle we've lost people to ICE, including one man who was picked up at his parole officer's the day after his mother died, and was told then and there to choose a country to be exiled to (Vietnam being unwilling to take deportees). In despair he answered, "Anywhere--it doesn't matter," and by the next day killed himself in custody. And this is a single story among the many, many inhumane things that are happening now across the country.
I’ve no doubt about that, I’ve met Persians here (in the U.K.) and they only mention Iran to clarify if needed. We do have a lot of refugees from “Iran”, and while a genuine regime change could reduce the flow of refugees and potentially persuade Persians here to return, it’s going to take more than bombs and missiles to overthrow the current regime and install a democratic, stable and lasting government, let alone one the USA & Israel are happy with.
When Trump visited the U.K. during his first presidency he looked older than Her Majesty the Queen, in terms of posture, movement and manners and that was nearly seven years ago, when he was nearly 72 and Her Majesty 92.
And his extended periods of time out on a golf course.
Some can be fatal - I recall one such patient from my time (several years ago) in an NHS Ambulance Service Trust. A sad story, but the person concerned spent too much time out in the sunshine...and realised his folly, far too late.
Maybe you didn't see my host post. Restrict your posts on this thread to posts about Trump.
That goes for everybody else tempted to continue this tangent.
Dafyd Hell Host
It was fascinating to see American, Iranian and Israeli flags waving side by side at the celebratory rallies, supporting the President's actions. So encouraging.
Still, I suspect that few (if any) of these legal immigrant refugees would elect to return to Iran. It would be nice for them to freely travel and visit however, much like I enjoy doing to visit family in Canada. I left because I could and though it truly is a nice place to visit, I wouldn't want to live there again.
I'm sure Trump will revoke their refugee status soon enough.
The White House said it was preventative, and I saw a doctor on Bluesky and another in Newsweek say there do exist preventative creams for skin cancer, typically used when someone has had pre-cancerous lesions. And that it's not a big deal.
Not especially.
There isn't anything close to 500,000 Iranians in the city of Los Angeles, or even in the greater LA area, or even in the entire state of California. You could have looked it up. Get your basic facts correct before you offer up your opinions.
I'm sorry. I didn't see it.
But may I please just say my comment about "LOL, good luck with that" was taken completely the wrong way? I completely approve of men assisting with chores and childrearing. It's just that, at least in Australia, women still bear the majority brunt of it.
I will say no more.
How snarky. I looked it up.
Community & Diaspora Estimates: Many local and community sources estimate the population to be between 500,000 and 700,000 people of Iranian descent in the broader Southern California/Los Angeles metropolitan area. This represents the largest concentration of Iranians outside of Iran.
https://international.ucla.edu/cnes/article/288476
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iranian_Americans_in_Los_Angeles
Possibly, yes. The higher community estimates (500,000+) typically come from a combination of academic research, community-led data projects, and institutional "write-in" analyses. These sources argue that official Census figures undercount the population due to the lack of a specific "Iranian" or "Middle Eastern" category on most forms.
Local historians and journalists frequently use the higher 600,000+ figure by factoring in second- and third-generation Iranian Americans who may not be captured in primary immigration statistics
The larger point isn't with respect to actual, uncounted numbers, but whether these diaspora immigrants were supportive and celebrating Donald Trump's decisive actions.
They are.
Some of his worshippers seem to be heading in that direction already, using quasi-religious language, and we hear that some military commanders are also looking forward to Armageddon...