I imagine Israel would say taking over more territory was in response to attack at the foundation of the state to broaden the strike zone. Reasonable to do.So self defence.
That's neither the facts nor the historical reality. Israel was given a state to return its diaspora to its original homeland. It is allowed to defend itself from Palestinian attacks.
If Iran and other countries think the state of Israel should be removed because it is the aggressor simply by existing it has to deal with historical facts.
You can argue about who attacked who first but you're missing the point that Israel has a right to be there, which is not the Iranian or Hamas position.
You can argue the allies were wrong to grant the state and therefore Israel will always be the aggressor because they don't belong there but you're not taking the whole history into consideration are are ignoring the rights of Israel to exist.
No country has an inherent "right to exist", and no-one had a right to ethnically cleanse huge chunks of Palestine of its native population in order to create a sectarian ethno-state. That said, Israel could make peace tomorrow if it withdrew to its internationally recognised borders and stopped blockading and attacking Palestinian territory. Yes, there would be a hard core of absolutists but without ongoing Israeli oppression they would dwindle to nothingness.
Israel claims Palestine and Palestinians don't exist. That position is malleable, so is Hamas's stated view of Israel (as demonstrated in the revision of their charter).
Just confirming, you don't think the Jews have a right to return to their homeland?
Then your beef is with the UN and a long history of Jews in Israel.
I don't think Jews have an exclusive right to it. I also think the idea of a "homeland" that you can't even trace your family tree back to is more than a little dubious. The UN never endorsed the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. I think, in general, that people should be able to live where they want, but also shouldn't be allowed to force other people from their homes to achieve that. What began with the Nakba in 1948 is ongoing now in the West Bank and Gaza. The attempt by the allies to ameliorate their guilt at refusing Jewish refugees and failing to prevent the Holocaust should not have been bought with the land and lives of the people of Palestine.
The Jews were happy to share. The Arabs weren't.
The day after the British left, all Israel's neighbours attacked them.
The end of that particular war that Israel won, saw the West Bank and Gaza under their military control.
1. Lie. Proto-Israeli terrorist groups drove Palestinians from their homes and murdered others.
2. Yes, in response to a new colony being planted next to them Palestine's neighbours tried to fight back.
3. No, Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza in 1967.
I don't understand the point you were trying to make by quoting my comments on the apparent lack of a game-plan from the Trump administration @WhimsicalChristian, nor the poorly coded quotes from other Shipmates.
If you can demonstrate that Trump and Hegseth know what they are doing then fine, go ahead.
Recently a Jewish friend asked me in the wake of the Manchester attack "If we can't go to Israel and be safe, where CAN we go."
I wish I had an answer for her. She is no admirer of the current Israeli regime or its actions.
The existence of a "safe" Jewish ethnostate relies on antisemitism existing elsewhere.
The issue is not about supporting any particular Israeli government or not, the issue is that nobody is entitled to an ethnostate. This applies to Japan just as much as it does to Israel.
Im sure this post would give her great comfort.
I mean it doesn't sound like she has a lot of words of comfort for the Palestinians forcibly ejected from their homes to create her safe little ethnostate. Why should she be comforted by racism being inherent to Israel's creation?
Now three ships have been attacked in. Look for oil prices to go sky high.
In China.
Oil is a global commodity. Oil prices everywhere are interdependent.
Reality bites. China is the world's largest importer of oil. 70% of it's needed supply is imported and 70% of that had been coming from Iran, with most of the remainder coming from Venezuela. They now have rationing and fuel lines the likes of Jimmy Carter's Administration right in America when we were reliant on Iran following the revolution that saw these theocrats come to power in 1979.
Recently a Jewish friend asked me in the wake of the Manchester attack "If we can't go to Israel and be safe, where CAN we go."
I wish I had an answer for her. She is no admirer of the current Israeli regime or its actions.
The existence of a "safe" Jewish ethnostate relies on antisemitism existing elsewhere.
Do you mean that its "necessity" is "dependent on" antisemitism elsewhere"? Otherwise I cannot make sense of that sentence. In any case it is clear (and was even clearer in 1947) that intense antisemitism does exist elsewhere, so this seems more of a truism than an objection.
The issue is not about supporting any particular Israeli government or not, the issue is that nobody is entitled to an ethnostate. This applies to Japan just as much as it does to Israel.
Whereas this seems like it might be a very broad statement, depending on your definition of "entitled" and "ethnostate". Does it also apply (say) to Ireland, or Pakistan? Besides, I imagine Japanese people have less reason to fear that someone will try to delete their nation-state, or indeed their nation.
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
Now three ships have been attacked in. Look for oil prices to go sky high.
In China.
Oil is a global commodity. Oil prices everywhere are interdependent.
Reality bites. China is the world's largest importer of oil. 70% of it's needed supply is imported and 70% of that had been coming from Iran, with most of the remainder coming from Venezuela. They now have rationing and fuel lines the likes of Jimmy Carter's Administration right in America when we were reliant on Iran following the revolution that saw these theocrats come to power in 1979.
The 70s oil crisis was nothing to do with the Iranian revolution. China buys oil on the open market. If they have to buy elsewhere prices go up for everyone. All the more reason to stop relying on oil as a power source, of course.
Now three ships have been attacked in. Look for oil prices to go sky high.
In China.
Oil is a global commodity. Oil prices everywhere are interdependent.
Reality bites. China is the world's largest importer of oil. 70% of it's needed supply is imported and 70% of that had been coming from Iran, with most of the remainder coming from Venezuela. They now have rationing and fuel lines the likes of Jimmy Carter's Administration right in America when we were reliant on Iran following the revolution that saw these theocrats come to power in 1979.
The 70s oil crisis was nothing to do with the Iranian revolution. China buys oil on the open market. If they have to buy elsewhere prices go up for everyone. All the more reason to stop relying on oil as a power source, of course.
Are you sure about that?
Following the revolution in Iran, global oil supplies were disrupted, and the price of crude oil more than doubled, causing shortages. Fear of shortages led to long lines. Some states implemented odd-even rationing (based on license plate numbers) and used flag systems (green, yellow, red) to indicate fuel availability.
Now three ships have been attacked in. Look for oil prices to go sky high.
In China.
Oil is a global commodity. Oil prices everywhere are interdependent.
Reality bites. China is the world's largest importer of oil. 70% of it's needed supply is imported and 70% of that had been coming from Iran, with most of the remainder coming from Venezuela. They now have rationing and fuel lines the likes of Jimmy Carter's Administration right in America when we were reliant on Iran following the revolution that saw these theocrats come to power in 1979.
The 70s oil crisis was nothing to do with the Iranian revolution. China buys oil on the open market. If they have to buy elsewhere prices go up for everyone. All the more reason to stop relying on oil as a power source, of course.
Are you sure about that?
Following the revolution in Iran, global oil supplies were disrupted, and the price of crude oil more than doubled, causing shortages. Fear of shortages led to long lines. Some states implemented odd-even rationing (based on license plate numbers) and used flag systems (green, yellow, red) to indicate fuel availability.
Prices increased, but lines in the US were almost entirely due to panic buying rather than actual shortages. I do acknowledge that I was thinking of the 1973 crisis, which had a far bigger impact.
Now three ships have been attacked in. Look for oil prices to go sky high.
In China.
Oil is a global commodity. Oil prices everywhere are interdependent.
Reality bites. China is the world's largest importer of oil. 70% of it's needed supply is imported and 70% of that had been coming from Iran, with most of the remainder coming from Venezuela. They now have rationing and fuel lines the likes of Jimmy Carter's Administration right in America when we were reliant on Iran following the revolution that saw these theocrats come to power in 1979.
The 70s oil crisis was nothing to do with the Iranian revolution. China buys oil on the open market. If they have to buy elsewhere prices go up for everyone. All the more reason to stop relying on oil as a power source, of course.
Are you sure about that?
Following the revolution in Iran, global oil supplies were disrupted, and the price of crude oil more than doubled, causing shortages. Fear of shortages led to long lines. Some states implemented odd-even rationing (based on license plate numbers) and used flag systems (green, yellow, red) to indicate fuel availability.
Prices increased, but lines in the US were almost entirely due to panic buying rather than actual shortages. I do acknowledge that I was thinking of the 1973 crisis, which had a far bigger impact.
My point was that in the midst of conflicts that impact the supply of oil to this global market, it's far better to be a producer than predominantly reliant upon other producers. The fact is that China already has supply shortages and gas lines, after the largest retail price increase in their history. It's hurting them far more than us. They've also cancelled all of their export contracts, to preserve their reserve supply strictly for domestic use.
The International Energy Agency of which the US is a member is releasing 400 million barrels of oil from the strategic reserves. Considering the world consumes around 102 million barrels of oil a day, that will hardly make a dent in energy prices.
The International Energy Agency of which the US is a member is releasing 400 million barrels of oil from the strategic reserves. Considering the world consumes around 102 million barrels of oil a day, that will hardly make a dent in energy prices.
Oil prices are at least partly speculative, responding to perceived issues rather than actual ones. The actual restriction of supply is far less the entirety of daily global consumption, and even signalling a willingness to release stored reserves may help stabilise the price.
Recently a Jewish friend asked me in the wake of the Manchester attack "If we can't go to Israel and be safe, where CAN we go."
I wish I had an answer for her. She is no admirer of the current Israeli regime or its actions.
The existence of a "safe" Jewish ethnostate relies on antisemitism existing elsewhere.
The issue is not about supporting any particular Israeli government or not, the issue is that nobody is entitled to an ethnostate. This applies to Japan just as much as it does to Israel.
Im sure this post would give her great comfort.
I mean it doesn't sound like she has a lot of words of comfort for the Palestinians forcibly ejected from their homes to create her safe little ethnostate. Why should she be comforted by racism being inherent to Israel's creation?
You write as though you know her. You don't.
Maybe you think you know her "type" and can therefore judge.
Recently a Jewish friend asked me in the wake of the Manchester attack "If we can't go to Israel and be safe, where CAN we go."
I wish I had an answer for her. She is no admirer of the current Israeli regime or its actions.
The existence of a "safe" Jewish ethnostate relies on antisemitism existing elsewhere.
The issue is not about supporting any particular Israeli government or not, the issue is that nobody is entitled to an ethnostate. This applies to Japan just as much as it does to Israel.
Im sure this post would give her great comfort.
I mean it doesn't sound like she has a lot of words of comfort for the Palestinians forcibly ejected from their homes to create her safe little ethnostate. Why should she be comforted by racism being inherent to Israel's creation?
You write as though you know her. You don't.
Maybe you think you know her "type" and can therefore judge.
I'm just responding to what you have said about the facts not being a comfort, I haven't stereotyped her at all. The fact remains that you (general you) cannot have a Jewish state without removing non-Jews first; Israel only exists because Palestinians were first expelled. You (again general you) cannot have a state that is explicitly specifically for Jews without it also being explicitly NOT for non-Jews. Your friend can oppose Netanyahu all she likes, but she still requires Palestinians to have been expelled for Israel to exist at all.
Recently a Jewish friend asked me in the wake of the Manchester attack "If we can't go to Israel and be safe, where CAN we go."
I wish I had an answer for her. She is no admirer of the current Israeli regime or its actions.
The existence of a "safe" Jewish ethnostate relies on antisemitism existing elsewhere.
The issue is not about supporting any particular Israeli government or not, the issue is that nobody is entitled to an ethnostate. This applies to Japan just as much as it does to Israel.
Im sure this post would give her great comfort.
I mean it doesn't sound like she has a lot of words of comfort for the Palestinians forcibly ejected from their homes to create her safe little ethnostate. Why should she be comforted by racism being inherent to Israel's creation?
You write as though you know her. You don't.
Maybe you think you know her "type" and can therefore judge.
I'm just responding to what you have said about the facts not being a comfort, I haven't stereotyped her at all. The fact remains that you (general you) cannot have a Jewish state without removing non-Jews first; Israel only exists because Palestinians were first expelled. You (again general you) cannot have a state that is explicitly specifically for Jews without it also being explicitly NOT for non-Jews. Your friend can oppose Netanyahu all she likes, but she still requires Palestinians to have been expelled for Israel to exist at all.
As essentially does every American and Australian and.. so on.
It's not quite the same, but many countries were created from great injustices. That's not necessarily the fault of individuals and usually individuals do not get much of a say in it.
Also of course many Germans likely live on confiscated land or in confiscated buildings. Many others benefit from confiscated art in Switzerland. Much of British national wealth came directly or indirectly from slavery.
Nobody really has clean hands. The Germans and others made an effort to pay reparations but that's not really changing the reality.
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
I think the outworking of existential fear is more complex than this. And there does appear to be a significant amount of political expediency involved.
At the same time, long-established widespread antisemitism is one of the reasons the modern state of Israel exists. Israel doesn't just represent the idea of a modern majority-Jewish homeland free from antisemitism - the perceived security of the nation-state of Israel directly affects the existential fear experienced by many Jews, both within Israel and without.
And antisemitism itself directly relates to existential fear experienced by Jews. This existential fear will continue as long as there is widespread antisemitism.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority. But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland:
The novel was significant in the establishment of Zionist ideas as it was published in the time period of the First Aliyah. Altneuland also reflects Herzl's belief in the importance of technology and progress. The Jewish state in the novel is a highly advanced society, where scientific and technological innovation is celebrated and valued. This reflects Herzl's belief that the Jewish people needed to embrace modernity in order to succeed in the modern world. Additionally, Altneuland also highlights Herzl's commitment to social equality and the idea of a multicultural Jewish society. The novel portrays a Jewish state where Jews and Arabs live together in harmony, reflecting Herzl's belief in the importance of coexistence and mutual respect between different communities.
Altneuland, at the time of the rise of Zionism as a political movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, saw the emergence of a new form of Jewish nationalism that sought to establish a Jewish state in Palestine began to prevail. The Zionist movement was fueled by a range of factors: the aggressive rise of anti-Semitism in Europe, the unifying sense of Jewish identity and solidarity that followed, and the desire for a homeland where Jews could live free from persecution and not be a minority in their society inspired a new wave of Zionism led by individuals like Theodore Hertzl.
NB The title of the Hebrew translation of Altneuland is Tel Aviv - the city was named after the novel.
US Central Command has just reported a KC-135 has gone done over Western Iraq. Two aircraft were involved. The one was able to land safely. They have launched a rescue operation. There is no apparent hostile fire. Sounds like midair collision.
This one is hitting close to home. Our nearest Air Force base, Fairchild AFB, has a wing of 135s that had just been mobilized for the war effort. One of our congregation member's husband is a 135 driver pilot. Even if the plane is not from Fairchild, those people are pretty tight.
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
I think the outworking of existential fear is more complex than this. And there does appear to be a significant amount of political expediency involved.
At the same time, long-established widespread antisemitism is one of the reasons the modern state of Israel exists. Israel doesn't just represent the idea of a modern majority-Jewish homeland free from antisemitism - the perceived security of the nation-state of Israel directly affects the existential fear experienced by many Jews, both within Israel and without.
And antisemitism itself directly relates to existential fear experienced by Jews. This existential fear will continue as long as there is widespread antisemitism.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority. But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland:
The novel was significant in the establishment of Zionist ideas as it was published in the time period of the First Aliyah. Altneuland also reflects Herzl's belief in the importance of technology and progress. The Jewish state in the novel is a highly advanced society, where scientific and technological innovation is celebrated and valued. This reflects Herzl's belief that the Jewish people needed to embrace modernity in order to succeed in the modern world. Additionally, Altneuland also highlights Herzl's commitment to social equality and the idea of a multicultural Jewish society. The novel portrays a Jewish state where Jews and Arabs live together in harmony, reflecting Herzl's belief in the importance of coexistence and mutual respect between different communities.
Altneuland, at the time of the rise of Zionism as a political movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, saw the emergence of a new form of Jewish nationalism that sought to establish a Jewish state in Palestine began to prevail. The Zionist movement was fueled by a range of factors: the aggressive rise of anti-Semitism in Europe, the unifying sense of Jewish identity and solidarity that followed, and the desire for a homeland where Jews could live free from persecution and not be a minority in their society inspired a new wave of Zionism led by individuals like Theodore Hertzl.
NB The title of the Hebrew translation of Altneuland is Tel Aviv - the city was named after the novel.
Amen. There is real reason to be concerned about antisemitism, especially given its history even before the Holocaust, so @Alan29 ’s friend has a right to be worried. And she may oppose Netanyahu as well—two things can be true at the same time.
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
I think the outworking of existential fear is more complex than this. And there does appear to be a significant amount of political expediency involved.
At the same time, long-established widespread antisemitism is one of the reasons the modern state of Israel exists. Israel doesn't just represent the idea of a modern majority-Jewish homeland free from antisemitism - the perceived security of the nation-state of Israel directly affects the existential fear experienced by many Jews, both within Israel and without.
And antisemitism itself directly relates to existential fear experienced by Jews. This existential fear will continue as long as there is widespread antisemitism.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority. But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland:
The novel was significant in the establishment of Zionist ideas as it was published in the time period of the First Aliyah. Altneuland also reflects Herzl's belief in the importance of technology and progress. The Jewish state in the novel is a highly advanced society, where scientific and technological innovation is celebrated and valued. This reflects Herzl's belief that the Jewish people needed to embrace modernity in order to succeed in the modern world. Additionally, Altneuland also highlights Herzl's commitment to social equality and the idea of a multicultural Jewish society. The novel portrays a Jewish state where Jews and Arabs live together in harmony, reflecting Herzl's belief in the importance of coexistence and mutual respect between different communities.
Altneuland, at the time of the rise of Zionism as a political movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, saw the emergence of a new form of Jewish nationalism that sought to establish a Jewish state in Palestine began to prevail. The Zionist movement was fueled by a range of factors: the aggressive rise of anti-Semitism in Europe, the unifying sense of Jewish identity and solidarity that followed, and the desire for a homeland where Jews could live free from persecution and not be a minority in their society inspired a new wave of Zionism led by individuals like Theodore Hertzl.
NB The title of the Hebrew translation of Altneuland is Tel Aviv - the city was named after the novel.
Amen. There is real reason to be concerned about antisemitism, especially given its history even before the Holocaust, so @Alan29 ’s friend has a right to be worried. And she may oppose Netanyahu as well—two things can be true at the same time.
She does oppose him, and carries the dread of historical anti-semitism. And of course not everything is either/or.
Well, it is all but official. The girl's school in Iran which was hit by a Tomahawk blast was because of outdated intelligence dating back to 2014. When good ol' Pete Hegseth became the War Secretary, one of the first things he did was to eliminate the agency that was supposed to determine civilian sites from military installations. War criminal.
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
I think the outworking of existential fear is more complex than this. And there does appear to be a significant amount of political expediency involved.
At the same time, long-established widespread antisemitism is one of the reasons the modern state of Israel exists. Israel doesn't just represent the idea of a modern majority-Jewish homeland free from antisemitism - the perceived security of the nation-state of Israel directly affects the existential fear experienced by many Jews, both within Israel and without.
And antisemitism itself directly relates to existential fear experienced by Jews. This existential fear will continue as long as there is widespread antisemitism.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority. But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland:
The novel was significant in the establishment of Zionist ideas as it was published in the time period of the First Aliyah. Altneuland also reflects Herzl's belief in the importance of technology and progress. The Jewish state in the novel is a highly advanced society, where scientific and technological innovation is celebrated and valued. This reflects Herzl's belief that the Jewish people needed to embrace modernity in order to succeed in the modern world. Additionally, Altneuland also highlights Herzl's commitment to social equality and the idea of a multicultural Jewish society. The novel portrays a Jewish state where Jews and Arabs live together in harmony, reflecting Herzl's belief in the importance of coexistence and mutual respect between different communities.
Altneuland, at the time of the rise of Zionism as a political movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, saw the emergence of a new form of Jewish nationalism that sought to establish a Jewish state in Palestine began to prevail. The Zionist movement was fueled by a range of factors: the aggressive rise of anti-Semitism in Europe, the unifying sense of Jewish identity and solidarity that followed, and the desire for a homeland where Jews could live free from persecution and not be a minority in their society inspired a new wave of Zionism led by individuals like Theodore Hertzl.
NB The title of the Hebrew translation of Altneuland is Tel Aviv - the city was named after the novel.
Amen. There is real reason to be concerned about antisemitism, especially given its history even before the Holocaust, so @Alan29 ’s friend has a right to be worried. And she may oppose Netanyahu as well—two things can be true at the same time.
She does oppose him, and carries the dread of historical anti-semitism. And of course not everything is either/or.
Agreed. I think an awful lot of stuff is both/and rather than either/or.
(I’m very much aligned with @Gamma Gamaliel in that regard. We could start a Both/And Brigade!)
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
I think the outworking of existential fear is more complex than this. And there does appear to be a significant amount of political expediency involved.
At the same time, long-established widespread antisemitism is one of the reasons the modern state of Israel exists. Israel doesn't just represent the idea of a modern majority-Jewish homeland free from antisemitism - the perceived security of the nation-state of Israel directly affects the existential fear experienced by many Jews, both within Israel and without.
And antisemitism itself directly relates to existential fear experienced by Jews. This existential fear will continue as long as there is widespread antisemitism.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority. But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland:
The novel was significant in the establishment of Zionist ideas as it was published in the time period of the First Aliyah. Altneuland also reflects Herzl's belief in the importance of technology and progress. The Jewish state in the novel is a highly advanced society, where scientific and technological innovation is celebrated and valued. This reflects Herzl's belief that the Jewish people needed to embrace modernity in order to succeed in the modern world. Additionally, Altneuland also highlights Herzl's commitment to social equality and the idea of a multicultural Jewish society. The novel portrays a Jewish state where Jews and Arabs live together in harmony, reflecting Herzl's belief in the importance of coexistence and mutual respect between different communities.
Altneuland, at the time of the rise of Zionism as a political movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, saw the emergence of a new form of Jewish nationalism that sought to establish a Jewish state in Palestine began to prevail. The Zionist movement was fueled by a range of factors: the aggressive rise of anti-Semitism in Europe, the unifying sense of Jewish identity and solidarity that followed, and the desire for a homeland where Jews could live free from persecution and not be a minority in their society inspired a new wave of Zionism led by individuals like Theodore Hertzl.
NB The title of the Hebrew translation of Altneuland is Tel Aviv - the city was named after the novel.
Amen. There is real reason to be concerned about antisemitism, especially given its history even before the Holocaust, so @Alan29 ’s friend has a right to be worried. And she may oppose Netanyahu as well—two things can be true at the same time.
She does oppose him, and carries the dread of historical anti-semitism. And of course not everything is either/or.
Agreed. I think an awful lot of stuff is both/and rather than either/or.
(I’m very much aligned with @Gamma Gamaliel in that regard. We could start a Both/And Brigade!)
The either/or mentality almost inevitably leads to us/them, and then real trouble starts.
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
I think the outworking of existential fear is more complex than this. And there does appear to be a significant amount of political expediency involved.
At the same time, long-established widespread antisemitism is one of the reasons the modern state of Israel exists. Israel doesn't just represent the idea of a modern majority-Jewish homeland free from antisemitism - the perceived security of the nation-state of Israel directly affects the existential fear experienced by many Jews, both within Israel and without.
And antisemitism itself directly relates to existential fear experienced by Jews. This existential fear will continue as long as there is widespread antisemitism.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority. But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland:
The novel was significant in the establishment of Zionist ideas as it was published in the time period of the First Aliyah. Altneuland also reflects Herzl's belief in the importance of technology and progress. The Jewish state in the novel is a highly advanced society, where scientific and technological innovation is celebrated and valued. This reflects Herzl's belief that the Jewish people needed to embrace modernity in order to succeed in the modern world. Additionally, Altneuland also highlights Herzl's commitment to social equality and the idea of a multicultural Jewish society. The novel portrays a Jewish state where Jews and Arabs live together in harmony, reflecting Herzl's belief in the importance of coexistence and mutual respect between different communities.
Altneuland, at the time of the rise of Zionism as a political movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, saw the emergence of a new form of Jewish nationalism that sought to establish a Jewish state in Palestine began to prevail. The Zionist movement was fueled by a range of factors: the aggressive rise of anti-Semitism in Europe, the unifying sense of Jewish identity and solidarity that followed, and the desire for a homeland where Jews could live free from persecution and not be a minority in their society inspired a new wave of Zionism led by individuals like Theodore Hertzl.
NB The title of the Hebrew translation of Altneuland is Tel Aviv - the city was named after the novel.
Amen. There is real reason to be concerned about antisemitism, especially given its history even before the Holocaust, so @Alan29 ’s friend has a right to be worried. And she may oppose Netanyahu as well—two things can be true at the same time.
Israeli politics doesn't start and end with Netanyahu, all parties (bar some very small and unrepresentative ones) supported the action in Gaza with only minor variations, all of them support the Iranian strikes and the current Israeli invasion of Lebanon. The settlements have been expanded under every government.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority.
Ensuring that given the demographics of the initial partition very much led to the logic of the Nakba, and the treatment of what is a significant minority since then.
But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland:
The novel was significant in the establishment of Zionist ideas as it was published in the time period of the First Aliyah. Altneuland also reflects Herzl's belief in the importance of technology and progress.
That's a highly sanitised rendering of the novel, which is very much in the colonial vein of the First World bringing civilisation to the savages (who thus willingly sell their land, and have no political aspirations because their living standards have been improved). Tel Aviv itself overlaps the ruins of several Palestinian towns and villages cleared of their population in 1948.
[Forgot that there's also a little vignette in there about repatriating various black populations to Africa]
I don't see how filling the Strait of Hormuz shore-to-shore with warships is going to keep it open for civilian ships. It just gives the Iranians a different set of targets.
Not if they don't have any missiles, which appears to be the current aim, to knock out the missile sites.
Trump keeps saying that he doesn't need NATO or anyone else so if he wants ships from other nations there alongside the US fleet then that'll be because, as @Doublethink has already cogently posted, he wants 'courtiers' rather than allies.
I don't see how filling the Strait of Hormuz shore-to-shore with warships is going to keep it open for civilian ships. It just gives the Iranians a different set of targets.
Yes. I can't envisage Starmer rushing to send the Navy out there, though no doubt Badenoch and Farage will again accuse him of cowardice, and a lack of patriotism...
I'm absolutely sure Xi won't. How desperate does an American president have to be to ask for help from China? Or has he forgotten they're the enemy?
China did provide Naval escorts during the Somali pirate crisis. China operates one overseas naval base in the Red Sea region, located in Djibouti, at the mouth of the Bab el‑Mandeb Strait. It opened in 2017 and remains the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) only formal foreign base. Chinese naval ships could transit through the Persian Gulf, but the base is too far away (900 miles) to provide direct support.
For a news reality check, the New York Times ran an article on AI faked war pictures. Most are so bad they are funny, but a few are less obvious (should be free access):
For a news reality check, the New York Times ran an article on AI faked war pictures. Most are so bad they are funny, but a few are less obvious (should be free access):
There's a pay wall on that link so I can't see it.
I had an interesting chat with a Lebanese Christian today about what's happening there. They have relatives in a predominantly Christian area and although they can see and hear the explosions they are relatively safe for now.
This may be a point for Epiphanies but they had no sympathy whatsoever for Hezbollah but was concerned about innocents being killed and injured on both sides.
Ok. I didn't see that as the nagging pop-up kept bobbing about and nagging at me.
I'll again sometime.
Fake images seem to be increasing and not just in conflicts. There were a whole load after the incident with the canal bank giving way at Whitchurch, some of which made it look like the narrowboats were pitched over the edge of the Grand Canyon.
For a news reality check, the New York Times ran an article on AI faked war pictures. Most are so bad they are funny, but a few are less obvious (should be free access):
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority.
Ensuring that given the demographics of the initial partition very much led to the logic of the Nakba, and the treatment of what is a significant minority since then.
But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland
That's a highly sanitised rendering of the novel, which is very much in the colonial vein of the First World bringing civilisation to the savages (who thus willingly sell their land, and have no political aspirations because their living standards have been improved). Tel Aviv itself overlaps the ruins of several Palestinian towns and villages cleared of their population in 1948.
The illogic of the Nakba is an ongoing catastrophe for Palestinians and an ongoing disaster for Jews and for Israel. The asymmetry in their respective treatment is prefigured in the Balfour Declaration:
Early British political support for an increased Jewish presence in the region of Palestine was based upon geopolitical calculations.
…
Arabs constituted around 90% of the population of Palestine, but – as stated by Ronald Storrs, Britain's Military Governor of Jerusalem between 1917 and 1920 – they were "not so much [named but] lumped together under the negative and humiliating definition of 'Non-Jewish Communities'". Additionally, there was no reference to protecting the political rights of this group, as there was regarding Jews in other countries. This lack of interest was frequently contrasted against the commitment to the Jewish community, with various terms used over subsequent years to regard the two obligations as linked. …
Balfour stated in February 1919 that Palestine was considered an exceptional case in which, referring to the local population, "we deliberately and rightly decline to accept the principle of self-determination," although he considered that the policy provided self-determination to Jews. Avi Shlaim considers this the declaration's "greatest contradiction".
However, in the utopia of Altneuland, there is no partition. The arguments proposed by Dr Geyer, a Jewish Nationalist, are defeated in a democratic election. From the Jewish Journal (December 2022):
About halfway through “Altneuland,” in the year 1923, citizens of the new Jewish state, or “New Society,” head to the polls to choose their government. One candidate is a rabbi by the name of Geyer, who leads a party steadfast in its belief that non-Jewish residents of the land not be awarded political rights. An important note is that Rabbi Geyer does not advocate for the expulsion of Arabs from the land, just for depriving them of the privilege of civic participation because this is, after all, a Jewish state. In response, during a heated debate, a representative of the New Society’s liberal establishment says: “The New Society rests squarely on ideas which are the common stock of the whole civilized world … it would be unethical for us to deny a share in our commonwealth to any man, wherever he might come from, whatever his race or creed. For we stand on the shoulders of civilized peoples.” He receives thunderous applause, and the liberal party goes on to defeat Rabbi Geyer, who is taunted and criticized by Herzl’s fictional political thinkers for not truly being a Zionist.
…
In “Altneuland,” Herzl warned us that the ideas expressed by Rabbi Geyer, which are uncomfortably replicated in today’s Knesset, are an existential threat to the stability of Jewish sovereignty and a contradiction to the central idea of it in a holistic sense.
Many aspects of Herzl's vision seem of their time, and echo the prevailing attitudes of dominant European nations towards other parts of the world, and other people-groups. Nonetheless, he did recognise and address the importance of the issue of the political and other rights of Palestinians, about which the British Government (for one) appeared much less concerned.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority.
Ensuring that given the demographics of the initial partition very much led to the logic of the Nakba, and the treatment of what is a significant minority since then.
But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland
That's a highly sanitised rendering of the novel, which is very much in the colonial vein of the First World bringing civilisation to the savages (who thus willingly sell their land, and have no political aspirations because their living standards have been improved). Tel Aviv itself overlaps the ruins of several Palestinian towns and villages cleared of their population in 1948.
The illogic of the Nakba is an ongoing catastrophe for Palestinians and an ongoing disaster for Jews and for Israel.
Well, it's 'worked' in the sense that it's something that every ally of Israel has largely ignored for the last 70+ years, and defacto accepted the facts on the ground that it created.
However, in the utopia of Altneuland, there is no partition. The arguments proposed by Dr Geyer, a Jewish Nationalist, are defeated in a democratic election. From the Jewish Journal (December 2022):
The whole text is widely available, as are Herzl's private writings, I think you should engage with that rather than depend on selective quotations from people employing motivated reasoning to come to the conclusion that it represented some kind of utopia.
Comments
1. Lie. Proto-Israeli terrorist groups drove Palestinians from their homes and murdered others.
2. Yes, in response to a new colony being planted next to them Palestine's neighbours tried to fight back.
3. No, Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza in 1967.
If you can demonstrate that Trump and Hegseth know what they are doing then fine, go ahead.
I don't believe they do.
Do the Iranians and Israelis agree?
In China.
Oil is a global commodity. Oil prices everywhere are interdependent.
I mean it doesn't sound like she has a lot of words of comfort for the Palestinians forcibly ejected from their homes to create her safe little ethnostate. Why should she be comforted by racism being inherent to Israel's creation?
Reality bites. China is the world's largest importer of oil. 70% of it's needed supply is imported and 70% of that had been coming from Iran, with most of the remainder coming from Venezuela. They now have rationing and fuel lines the likes of Jimmy Carter's Administration right in America when we were reliant on Iran following the revolution that saw these theocrats come to power in 1979.
Israel is reliant on antisemitism existing elsewhere in order to justify its own existence. Israel doesn't want to stop antisemitism - I don't mean that antisemitism isn't real or is created by Jewish people, of course not. I also deliberately separate Jewish people from Israel. But Israel as a state has a vested interest in exploiting Jewish people's fears in order to justify its behaviour towards Palestinians.
An ethnostate is a country deliberately created as a country for a specific ethnicity. Ireland (to use your example) is majority white Irish, but was not deliberately created to be this way - it's not an ethnostate, because there was no intentional creation of a white Irish nation. Israel was specifically created to be Jewish-only.
The 70s oil crisis was nothing to do with the Iranian revolution. China buys oil on the open market. If they have to buy elsewhere prices go up for everyone. All the more reason to stop relying on oil as a power source, of course.
Are you sure about that?
Following the revolution in Iran, global oil supplies were disrupted, and the price of crude oil more than doubled, causing shortages. Fear of shortages led to long lines. Some states implemented odd-even rationing (based on license plate numbers) and used flag systems (green, yellow, red) to indicate fuel availability.
Prices increased, but lines in the US were almost entirely due to panic buying rather than actual shortages. I do acknowledge that I was thinking of the 1973 crisis, which had a far bigger impact.
My point was that in the midst of conflicts that impact the supply of oil to this global market, it's far better to be a producer than predominantly reliant upon other producers. The fact is that China already has supply shortages and gas lines, after the largest retail price increase in their history. It's hurting them far more than us. They've also cancelled all of their export contracts, to preserve their reserve supply strictly for domestic use.
Oil prices are at least partly speculative, responding to perceived issues rather than actual ones. The actual restriction of supply is far less the entirety of daily global consumption, and even signalling a willingness to release stored reserves may help stabilise the price.
You write as though you know her. You don't.
Maybe you think you know her "type" and can therefore judge.
I'm just responding to what you have said about the facts not being a comfort, I haven't stereotyped her at all. The fact remains that you (general you) cannot have a Jewish state without removing non-Jews first; Israel only exists because Palestinians were first expelled. You (again general you) cannot have a state that is explicitly specifically for Jews without it also being explicitly NOT for non-Jews. Your friend can oppose Netanyahu all she likes, but she still requires Palestinians to have been expelled for Israel to exist at all.
As essentially does every American and Australian and.. so on.
It's not quite the same, but many countries were created from great injustices. That's not necessarily the fault of individuals and usually individuals do not get much of a say in it.
Nobody really has clean hands. The Germans and others made an effort to pay reparations but that's not really changing the reality.
At the same time, long-established widespread antisemitism is one of the reasons the modern state of Israel exists. Israel doesn't just represent the idea of a modern majority-Jewish homeland free from antisemitism - the perceived security of the nation-state of Israel directly affects the existential fear experienced by many Jews, both within Israel and without.
And antisemitism itself directly relates to existential fear experienced by Jews. This existential fear will continue as long as there is widespread antisemitism.
I would say majority-Jewish - a nation where Jews would never again be in a minority. But aspects of the modern state of Israel only partially embody Theodor Herzl's (the founder of political Zionism) original vision, as expressed in the novel Altneuland: NB The title of the Hebrew translation of Altneuland is Tel Aviv - the city was named after the novel.
This one is hitting close to home. Our nearest Air Force base, Fairchild AFB, has a wing of 135s that had just been mobilized for the war effort. One of our congregation member's husband is a 135 driver pilot. Even if the plane is not from Fairchild, those people are pretty tight.
Praying for the crew and their families.
Amen. There is real reason to be concerned about antisemitism, especially given its history even before the Holocaust, so @Alan29 ’s friend has a right to be worried. And she may oppose Netanyahu as well—two things can be true at the same time.
She does oppose him, and carries the dread of historical anti-semitism. And of course not everything is either/or.
I guess it takes one to know one...
Agreed. I think an awful lot of stuff is both/and rather than either/or.
(I’m very much aligned with @Gamma Gamaliel in that regard. We could start a Both/And Brigade!)
The either/or mentality almost inevitably leads to us/them, and then real trouble starts.
Israeli politics doesn't start and end with Netanyahu, all parties (bar some very small and unrepresentative ones) supported the action in Gaza with only minor variations, all of them support the Iranian strikes and the current Israeli invasion of Lebanon. The settlements have been expanded under every government.
Ensuring that given the demographics of the initial partition very much led to the logic of the Nakba, and the treatment of what is a significant minority since then.
That's a highly sanitised rendering of the novel, which is very much in the colonial vein of the First World bringing civilisation to the savages (who thus willingly sell their land, and have no political aspirations because their living standards have been improved). Tel Aviv itself overlaps the ruins of several Palestinian towns and villages cleared of their population in 1948.
[Forgot that there's also a little vignette in there about repatriating various black populations to Africa]
...Donald Trump said “many countries” would send warships to keep the strait of Hormuz open, without providing details on which countries would do so.
He said he hoped the UK, China, France, Japan, South Korea and others will send ships to the area.
Wishful thinking? Surely he 's not tacitly admitting that the US Navy - the bigliest in the World - can't manage?
Trump keeps saying that he doesn't need NATO or anyone else so if he wants ships from other nations there alongside the US fleet then that'll be because, as @Doublethink has already cogently posted, he wants 'courtiers' rather than allies.
Yes. I can't envisage Starmer rushing to send the Navy out there, though no doubt Badenoch and Farage will again accuse him of cowardice, and a lack of patriotism...
China did provide Naval escorts during the Somali pirate crisis. China operates one overseas naval base in the Red Sea region, located in Djibouti, at the mouth of the Bab el‑Mandeb Strait. It opened in 2017 and remains the People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) only formal foreign base. Chinese naval ships could transit through the Persian Gulf, but the base is too far away (900 miles) to provide direct support.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/03/14/business/media/iran-disinfo-artificial-intelligence.html?unlocked_article_code=1.TFA.x75U.O6eFhaLMliim&smid=url-share
Fauxtography --- propaganda. If you can't make it, fake it.
Surrender already.
I had an interesting chat with a Lebanese Christian today about what's happening there. They have relatives in a predominantly Christian area and although they can see and hear the explosions they are relatively safe for now.
This may be a point for Epiphanies but they had no sympathy whatsoever for Hezbollah but was concerned about innocents being killed and injured on both sides.
It worked just now for me, and I'm in the UK. Although I do have a NYT games sub, so that might give me a few free reads of articles.
I'll again sometime.
Fake images seem to be increasing and not just in conflicts. There were a whole load after the incident with the canal bank giving way at Whitchurch, some of which made it look like the narrowboats were pitched over the edge of the Grand Canyon.
Seems like a lot of effort when you can just threaten to yank broadcast licenses if the government doesn't like what you're saying. For those who aren't familiar with those involved, Chris Murphy is a U.S. Senator from Connecticut and Brendan Carr is head of the Federal Communications Commission.
Well, it's 'worked' in the sense that it's something that every ally of Israel has largely ignored for the last 70+ years, and defacto accepted the facts on the ground that it created.
The whole text is widely available, as are Herzl's private writings, I think you should engage with that rather than depend on selective quotations from people employing motivated reasoning to come to the conclusion that it represented some kind of utopia.