Charismatic figure? Maybe for the diehard MAGA followers, which is a minority of the electorate. Hang on to his every word? I can't make out his word salad.
He's a dangerous lunatic in control of a nuclear arsenal. Of course people pay attention to what he says and does.
This - 1000 times this.
If he was simply still a TV show host, I'd pay as much attention to him as I do to Alan Sugar.
As it is trump is threatening us all.
Until recently, I have ignored all news and switched off the orange toddler. But lately it's become more frightening than ever.
All the same, I must learn to switch off again. Enough people talk about it to keep me up to date, without me having to watch and listen to such utter carnage mixed with drivvle.
The point has been made - many times - that 'the AntiChrist' is supposed to be an attractive figure. That can hardly be said of Trump...
You'll likely have a difficult time finding a scriptural reference to back up your supposition. Charismatic- yes-- Physically attractive? no where in scripture. Stop reading the Left Behind series.
Trump is certainly a charismatic leader. Even those who despise him hang on his every word as evidenced right here in this thread.
Yes, perhaps I should have used the word charismatic...
He was quite hypnotic and had the ability to manipulate audience emotions, starting speeches quietly before building to a screaming crescendo.
Nazi propaganda cultivated an image of a "saviour" who was both an ordinary man and a heroic figure destined to make Germany great again.
All the same, many observers did not find him charismatic at all, and his rise was also heavily dependent on the use of terror, propaganda, and the deliberate manufacturing of a cult of personality.
Serious attempts to defend Trump go in Purgatory, should there be such a thing.
A "Trump is the antichrist" could hardly be considered any kind of attempt at defending Trump. I don't understand your point. "Serious" question-- where would such a thread be best placed?
-He's boastful
-He survived a serious head wound
-He rides around in 'The Beast'
-He calls down fire from the sky
-The whole world follows after him.
These are just off the top of my head. We could certainly go down the rabbit hole.
"Survived a serious head wound"? A nicked ear?
The car that protects the American president from Americans was called The Beast long before trump.
BTW, I get confused with all the End Times stuff. If the Trumpians want to bring about Armageddon etc., shouldn't The Rapture occur first? And, if so, why are they still here?
Serious attempts to defend Trump go in Purgatory, should there be such a thing.
A "Trump is the antichrist" could hardly be considered any kind of attempt at defending Trump. I don't understand your point.
You were criticized for not engaging in this thread. His point was that this is a Hell thread. It exists for venting; serious engagement isn’t necessary and posters are under no obligation of any kind to mount any sorts of defenses.
Serious discussion, including engagement or defenses of Trump, belongs in Purgatory, not Hell.
In that case, you'll have to forgive me for not paying any attention to criticism here. I'll initiate a thread to seriously discuss the topic in Purgatory, thx.
That would be splendid - I would refer you to my request for a list. See you in Purg!
BTW, I get confused with all the End Times stuff. If the Trumpians want to bring about Armageddon etc., shouldn't The Rapture occur first? And, if so, why are they still here?
Can't speak to Trump's beliefs. He says he is not a Christian. The closest I can come to him is Hegseth. Hegseth identifies as a Christian Nationalist. CNs do not believe in a Rapture per se. They are post millennial. While they do not use the term Armageddon, they do believe there will be a final battle when good triumphs over evil and Christ will finally establish the kingdom on this earth.
I think Hegseth believes this war is part of that final battle. Is it the absolute final battle? Hard to say.
To the point of Trump being the antichrist, I have equated him with Satan, but scripturally, the antichrist comes from within the church. It appears whenever the Gospel is impeded. There have been several events throughout the church's history where people may say the antichrist has appeared. However, since Trump is not from within the church, I cannot point to him as an antichrist.
The point has been made - many times - that 'the AntiChrist' is supposed to be an attractive figure. That can hardly be said of Trump...
Even charisma isn't necessary to be an/the Antichrist. Power and threats work just as well. Get into power by some fluke and the whole thing easily becomes self-perpetuating.
To the point of Trump being the antichrist, I have equated him with Satan, but scripturally, the antichrist comes from within the church. It appears whenever the Gospel is impeded. There have been several events throughout the church's history where people may say the antichrist has appeared. However, since Trump is not from within the church, I cannot point to him as an antichrist.
God forgive us, but enough of the American churches supported him, especially at the beginning before his character became, er, clearer,* that I don't think we can rule him out on this ground.
* Not that anyone paying attention shouldn't have been worried from the start.
Do the Trumpian churches still see him as Saviour and Lord? Very little is heard about them on this side of the Pond, though I may have missed some reporting.
Do the Trumpian churches still see him as Saviour and Lord? Very little is heard about them on this side of the Pond, though I may have missed some reporting.
It prob'ly depends what you define as a "Trumpian church". Conservative Catholics who like his stance on abortion etc? They almost certainly never considered him Saviour and Lord in the first place, just a useful and possibly likable politician to advance their agenda.
OTOH, Paula White, who said of Trump "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased"? Yeah, she probably considers him to be something other than just an ordinary everyday human being.
As for hanging on Trump‘s every word, he is not only the president of the United States, but he is also willing to enact executive orders on a whim, so being aware of what he says is unfortunately necessary, like looking at weather patterns to see where the next catastrophe might strike.
A "Trump is the antichrist" could hardly be considered any kind of attempt at defending Trump. I don't understand your point.
Trump is the antichrist is indeed not serious, which is why it goes in Hell where this kind of dark humour belongs.
You do get that it's dark humour? The way you're throwing around the word "delusional" makes me wonder.
He seems to be something of a conspiratorial antisemite though. Good that they're falling out with each other but not good that this guy was ever in charge of anything at all.
Do the Trumpian churches still see him as Saviour and Lord? Very little is heard about them on this side of the Pond, though I may have missed some reporting.
It prob'ly depends what you define as a "Trumpian church". Conservative Catholics who like his stance on abortion etc? They almost certainly never considered him Saviour and Lord in the first place, just a useful and possibly likable politician to advance their agenda.
OTOH, Paula White, who said of Trump "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased"? Yeah, she probably considers him to be something other than just an ordinary everyday human being.
Thanks - fair comment, and I appreciate the distinction.
A "Trump is the antichrist" could hardly be considered any kind of attempt at defending Trump. I don't understand your point.
Trump is the antichrist is indeed not serious, which is why it goes in Hell where this kind of dark humour belongs.
You do get that it's dark humour? The way you're throwing around the word "delusional" makes me wonder.
Au contraire.... There really are some people who truly (seriously) believe Trump to be the antichrist.
There is a segment of people, including some who identify as Christians or former Christians, who have proposed the idea that Donald Trump is the Antichrist or exhibits characteristics consistent with the biblical figure.
Communities like the r/Trump666 subreddit and various TikTok hashtags (e.g., #trumpistheantichrist) have emerged specifically to document and discuss these theories.
A "Trump is the antichrist" could hardly be considered any kind of attempt at defending Trump. I don't understand your point.
Trump is the antichrist is indeed not serious, which is why it goes in Hell where this kind of dark humour belongs.
You do get that it's dark humour? The way you're throwing around the word "delusional" makes me wonder.
Au contraire.... There really are some people who truly (seriously) believe Trump to be the antichrist.
There is a segment of people, including some who identify as Christians or former Christians, who have proposed the idea that Donald Trump is the Antichrist or exhibits characteristics consistent with the biblical figure.
Communities like the r/Trump666 subreddit and various TikTok hashtags (e.g., #trumpistheantichrist) have emerged specifically to document and discuss these theories.
If they're former Christians, do they mean that they thought Trump was the Antichrist before ceasing to identify as Christians, or that they're not Christians now, but still believe there will be an Antichrist, and that Trump is it? (To not believe in Christ, but to believe there will still be an Antichrist, seems kind of odd to me...)
He seems to be something of a conspiratorial antisemite though. Good that they're falling out with each other but not good that this guy was ever in charge of anything at all.
Yeah. I wouldn't say that this guy is exactly "a rat leaving a sinking ship", because that phrase implies that person is an opportunist, who would otherwise support what the admin is doing, but senses impending collapse and thus leaves to protect his own interests.
Whereas Kent sounds like a genuine isolationist, who has probably till now stuck with Trump on principle because he believed that Trump was averse to large-scale neocon-style military interventions, but now perceives that Trump has embarked upon one.
The fight between the fundy-heavy Christian Zionist MAGAs and the Catholic-heavy antizionist America Firsters is entertaining as all get-out. But I have seen the analysis that it's mostly an on-line phenom, and that most of the public opposition to Trump's Iranian adventurism amongis among moderates, most of them more worried about the price of oil or getting the USA dragged into a boondoggle, than the latest tuckersphere discussion about [insert updated plagiarisms of Father Coughlin here].
There's been some recent fratricidal purging on one of Trump's religious-freedom publicity-stunt committees, but Kent might be the first person involved in such theocratic foreign-policy controversies in the national-security realm.
Like me, @Arethosemyfeet won't have a SAT score as we're not Americans.
That probably explains why he doesn't understand that a 960 is low--
It doesn't explain why he doesn't understand percentiles. Gavin Newsom is undeniably dumber than your average (California) bear.
I'm well aware that 960 is a low SAT score, but not everyone in the US takes SATs, because not everyone is intending to go to college. Consequently the percentile distribution of SAT scores (based on the subset of Americans applying for college) and IQ (standardised across a whole population) will not be the same. You can argue that Newsom was a below average college applicant based on his SAT score, but not that he is of below average intelligence based on the table I linked to above.
However, I do appreciate you at least attempting to argue your case. In time and with practice you might even occasionally manage to do so effectively.
A "Trump is the antichrist" could hardly be considered any kind of attempt at defending Trump. I don't understand your point.
Trump is the antichrist is indeed not serious, which is why it goes in Hell where this kind of dark humour belongs.
You do get that it's dark humour? The way you're throwing around the word "delusional" makes me wonder.
Au contraire.... There really are some people who truly (seriously) believe Trump to be the antichrist.
There is a segment of people, including some who identify as Christians or former Christians, who have proposed the idea that Donald Trump is the Antichrist or exhibits characteristics consistent with the biblical figure.
Communities like the r/Trump666 subreddit and various TikTok hashtags (e.g., #trumpistheantichrist) have emerged specifically to document and discuss these theories.
There really are people who think the earth is flat. That does not make it a serious proposition.
I agree that if you take Revaluation to be a road map of the end times Trumps fits the Antichrist perfectly
I don't think so, unless we're just meaning in the very general sense that the Beast of Revelation is a guy who does a lot of bad stuff.
Just for starters, the Beast is described as being extremely popular throughout the world("All who dwell on the earth will worship him"), but Trump can't break 50% approval in his own country, and polls even worse elsewhere.
The Antichrist fools the church for instance. He certainly has a section of the church fooled. I won’t go on
Gavin Newsom is undeniably dumber than your average (California) bear.
'Dumber' is a meaningless word.
We are all differently intelligent. My son has dyslexia. He's an airline captain. I have dyslexia, I was a headteacher before I retired.
trump proves his poor, limited vocabulary every time he opens his mouth to speak.
That's like saying dyslexia is a meaningless word, because there is a spectrum of severity. Newsom might have a mild case of dyslexia (he says he only discovered he had it when he read about it in papers from school his mom had collected) but he's got Stage 4 Stupid.
he was in 3rd grade and he accidentally came across a pile of papers about him in her room with the word “dyslexia” sprinkled throughout.
Gavin Newsom is undeniably dumber than your average (California) bear.
'Dumber' is a meaningless word.
We are all differently intelligent. My son has dyslexia. He's an airline captain. I have dyslexia, I was a headteacher before I retired.
trump proves his poor, limited vocabulary every time he opens his mouth to speak.
That's like saying dyslexia is a meaningless word, because there is a spectrum of severity. Newsom might have a mild case of dyslexia (he says he only discovered he had it when he read about it in papers from school his mom had collected) but he's got Stage 4 Stupid.
First off, given Newsom's age his dyslexia would have needed to be pretty severe to get picked up or he get very, very lucky. For most dyslexics his age they wouldn't get diagnosed until adulthood, if at all.
As for stupid: take a look up, now to the left, now to the right (don't forget to keep breathing while you do this). See all that glass? Right. Now put the stone down.
Newsom's a grifting arsehole, but he's not particularly stupid.
It has often been charictarised as a disorder but it wouldn't be if it was recognised for what it is.
For me being dyslexic has taught me a great deal about perseverance - due to the world being set up for the neurotypical.
Dyslexic people often excel in 3D spatial reasoning, holistic pattern recognition, creative problem-solving, and narrative thinking, wherever on the spectrum they are.
I find watching 'who dunnits' annoying as I know the culprit way to soon to enjoy the story!
Calling any neurodiverse person 'dumb' is shortsighted and ignorant.
When trump uses the word he's projecting. Like I said - look at his poor vocabulary, lack of reasoning ability and severe lack of empathy. His emotional intelligence is zero.
Apparently his temper is horrendous - a toddler in an adult body.
Human intelligence, however it's described or defined, has little to nothing to do with political acumen. But let's remember this attributed quote from a former professor at Penn:
‘Donald Trump was the dumbest goddamn student I ever had!’
Gavin Newsom is undeniably dumber than your average (California) bear.
'Dumber' is a meaningless word.
We are all differently intelligent. My son has dyslexia. He's an airline captain. I have dyslexia, I was a headteacher before I retired.
trump proves his poor, limited vocabulary every time he opens his mouth to speak.
That's like saying dyslexia is a meaningless word, because there is a spectrum of severity. Newsom might have a mild case of dyslexia (he says he only discovered he had it when he read about it in papers from school his mom had collected) but he's got Stage 4 Stupid.
First off, given Newsom's age his dyslexia would have needed to be pretty severe to get picked up or he get very, very lucky. For most dyslexics his age they wouldn't get diagnosed until adulthood, if at all.
As for stupid: take a look up, now to the left, now to the right (don't forget to keep breathing while you do this). See all that glass? Right. Now put the stone down.
Newsom's a grifting arsehole, but he's not particularly stupid.
Perhaps you missed the irony of a boy who couldn't read, discovering he had dyslexia after reading about it.
This thread is for ranting about Donald Trump. Serious discussion of dyslexia and other divergent learning, or exposition of Trump's ignorance about the matter, goes in Epiphanies.
Comments
He's a dangerous lunatic in control of a nuclear arsenal. Of course people pay attention to what he says and does.
This - 1000 times this.
If he was simply still a TV show host, I'd pay as much attention to him as I do to Alan Sugar.
As it is trump is threatening us all.
Until recently, I have ignored all news and switched off the orange toddler. But lately it's become more frightening than ever.
All the same, I must learn to switch off again. Enough people talk about it to keep me up to date, without me having to watch and listen to such utter carnage mixed with drivvle.
Yes, perhaps I should have used the word charismatic...
I bow to your better knowledge of the Bible.
He was quite hypnotic and had the ability to manipulate audience emotions, starting speeches quietly before building to a screaming crescendo.
Nazi propaganda cultivated an image of a "saviour" who was both an ordinary man and a heroic figure destined to make Germany great again.
All the same, many observers did not find him charismatic at all, and his rise was also heavily dependent on the use of terror, propaganda, and the deliberate manufacturing of a cult of personality.
So many parallels.
(With apologies to Goodwin.)
"Survived a serious head wound"? A nicked ear?
The car that protects the American president from Americans was called The Beast long before trump.
That would be splendid - I would refer you to my request for a list. See you in Purg!
Can't speak to Trump's beliefs. He says he is not a Christian. The closest I can come to him is Hegseth. Hegseth identifies as a Christian Nationalist. CNs do not believe in a Rapture per se. They are post millennial. While they do not use the term Armageddon, they do believe there will be a final battle when good triumphs over evil and Christ will finally establish the kingdom on this earth.
I think Hegseth believes this war is part of that final battle. Is it the absolute final battle? Hard to say.
To the point of Trump being the antichrist, I have equated him with Satan, but scripturally, the antichrist comes from within the church. It appears whenever the Gospel is impeded. There have been several events throughout the church's history where people may say the antichrist has appeared. However, since Trump is not from within the church, I cannot point to him as an antichrist.
Even charisma isn't necessary to be an/the Antichrist. Power and threats work just as well. Get into power by some fluke and the whole thing easily becomes self-perpetuating.
God forgive us, but enough of the American churches supported him, especially at the beginning before his character became, er, clearer,* that I don't think we can rule him out on this ground.
* Not that anyone paying attention shouldn't have been worried from the start.
It prob'ly depends what you define as a "Trumpian church". Conservative Catholics who like his stance on abortion etc? They almost certainly never considered him Saviour and Lord in the first place, just a useful and possibly likable politician to advance their agenda.
OTOH, Paula White, who said of Trump "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased"? Yeah, she probably considers him to be something other than just an ordinary everyday human being.
Common ground! On this, perhaps only this, we can agree.
Damn, damn, I'm washing my hair that day!
I hope it holds off; my birthday is just after.
You do get that it's dark humour? The way you're throwing around the word "delusional" makes me wonder.
Are you forgetting about Marjorie Taylor Greene?
Thanks - fair comment, and I appreciate the distinction.
umm.... what was yours?
A 960 SAT score is below the national average of approximately 1050, placing it around the 32nd to 40th percentile
Like me, @Arethosemyfeet won't have a SAT score as we're not Americans.
Au contraire.... There really are some people who truly (seriously) believe Trump to be the antichrist.
There is a segment of people, including some who identify as Christians or former Christians, who have proposed the idea that Donald Trump is the Antichrist or exhibits characteristics consistent with the biblical figure.
Communities like the r/Trump666 subreddit and various TikTok hashtags (e.g., #trumpistheantichrist) have emerged specifically to document and discuss these theories.
That probably explains why he doesn't understand that a 960 is low--
It doesn't explain why he doesn't understand percentiles. Gavin Newsom is undeniably dumber than your average (California) bear.
If they're former Christians, do they mean that they thought Trump was the Antichrist before ceasing to identify as Christians, or that they're not Christians now, but still believe there will be an Antichrist, and that Trump is it? (To not believe in Christ, but to believe there will still be an Antichrist, seems kind of odd to me...)
Yeah. I wouldn't say that this guy is exactly "a rat leaving a sinking ship", because that phrase implies that person is an opportunist, who would otherwise support what the admin is doing, but senses impending collapse and thus leaves to protect his own interests.
Whereas Kent sounds like a genuine isolationist, who has probably till now stuck with Trump on principle because he believed that Trump was averse to large-scale neocon-style military interventions, but now perceives that Trump has embarked upon one.
The fight between the fundy-heavy Christian Zionist MAGAs and the Catholic-heavy antizionist America Firsters is entertaining as all get-out. But I have seen the analysis that it's mostly an on-line phenom, and that most of the public opposition to Trump's Iranian adventurism amongis among moderates, most of them more worried about the price of oil or getting the USA dragged into a boondoggle, than the latest tuckersphere discussion about [insert updated plagiarisms of Father Coughlin here].
There's been some recent fratricidal purging on one of Trump's religious-freedom publicity-stunt committees, but Kent might be the first person involved in such theocratic foreign-policy controversies in the national-security realm.
I'm well aware that 960 is a low SAT score, but not everyone in the US takes SATs, because not everyone is intending to go to college. Consequently the percentile distribution of SAT scores (based on the subset of Americans applying for college) and IQ (standardised across a whole population) will not be the same. You can argue that Newsom was a below average college applicant based on his SAT score, but not that he is of below average intelligence based on the table I linked to above.
However, I do appreciate you at least attempting to argue your case. In time and with practice you might even occasionally manage to do so effectively.
There really are people who think the earth is flat. That does not make it a serious proposition.
The Antichrist fools the church for instance. He certainly has a section of the church fooled. I won’t go on
'Dumber' is a meaningless word.
We are all differently intelligent. My son has dyslexia. He's an airline captain. I have dyslexia, I was a headteacher before I retired.
trump proves his poor, limited vocabulary every time he opens his mouth to speak.
That's like saying dyslexia is a meaningless word, because there is a spectrum of severity. Newsom might have a mild case of dyslexia (he says he only discovered he had it when he read about it in papers from school his mom had collected) but he's got Stage 4 Stupid.
First off, given Newsom's age his dyslexia would have needed to be pretty severe to get picked up or he get very, very lucky. For most dyslexics his age they wouldn't get diagnosed until adulthood, if at all.
As for stupid: take a look up, now to the left, now to the right (don't forget to keep breathing while you do this). See all that glass? Right. Now put the stone down.
Newsom's a grifting arsehole, but he's not particularly stupid.
It has often been charictarised as a disorder but it wouldn't be if it was recognised for what it is.
For me being dyslexic has taught me a great deal about perseverance - due to the world being set up for the neurotypical.
Dyslexic people often excel in 3D spatial reasoning, holistic pattern recognition, creative problem-solving, and narrative thinking, wherever on the spectrum they are.
I find watching 'who dunnits' annoying as I know the culprit way to soon to enjoy the story!
Calling any neurodiverse person 'dumb' is shortsighted and ignorant.
When trump uses the word he's projecting. Like I said - look at his poor vocabulary, lack of reasoning ability and severe lack of empathy. His emotional intelligence is zero.
Apparently his temper is horrendous - a toddler in an adult body.
https://www.ft.com/content/fc1e7e9a-9d5d-4217-b9b2-38069eb1197b
‘Donald Trump was the dumbest goddamn student I ever had!’
Perhaps you missed the irony of a boy who couldn't read, discovering he had dyslexia after reading about it.
Dafyd Hell Host