Spiritual 'actions'
Gamma Gamaliel
Shipmate
There's a lot on this board about songs and sermons, words and music.
A reference to 'action songs' on another thread set me thinking about gestures and physical actions in worship.
Everything from kneeling to raising hands, to clapping, swaying, genuflecting, bowing, 'metanias' and prostrations and making the sign of the cross etc.
I'm wanting to steer clear of personal preferences in this thread - I'm afraid 'action songs' would send me fleeing down the road as fast as my legs could carry me ... whereas I'm gradually losing my self-consciousness about making 'metanias', kidding icons, lighting candles and so forth.
It's all down to what we become acclimatised to.
Putting that aside, I'm interested in what physical actions of any kind in any tradition- and not only Christian ones - convey and help each community express.
It could be a sense of collective solidarity, or a demonstration of personal piety (something we need to be wary of) or something that helps convey a sense of the numinous or draw attention to a particularly valued or important part of the worship.
I used to know a Baptist minister who, after making a quip or an aside during his sermon would draw himself up to his full height and pull a face as if he were about to plunge his face into a bucket of cold water before resuming his 'text' as it were.
It was an affectation certainly but an effective one. It demonstrated that we were to take the scriptures seriously.
In a different tradition there might be a procession of the Gospel Book and censing etc.
How can physical gestures help us in worship?
Let's give examples.
Bearing in mind, as Mother Maria of Paris reminds us, that we won't be asked how many prostration we made or services we attended but whether we fed the poor, clothed the naked ...
A reference to 'action songs' on another thread set me thinking about gestures and physical actions in worship.
Everything from kneeling to raising hands, to clapping, swaying, genuflecting, bowing, 'metanias' and prostrations and making the sign of the cross etc.
I'm wanting to steer clear of personal preferences in this thread - I'm afraid 'action songs' would send me fleeing down the road as fast as my legs could carry me ... whereas I'm gradually losing my self-consciousness about making 'metanias', kidding icons, lighting candles and so forth.
It's all down to what we become acclimatised to.
Putting that aside, I'm interested in what physical actions of any kind in any tradition- and not only Christian ones - convey and help each community express.
It could be a sense of collective solidarity, or a demonstration of personal piety (something we need to be wary of) or something that helps convey a sense of the numinous or draw attention to a particularly valued or important part of the worship.
I used to know a Baptist minister who, after making a quip or an aside during his sermon would draw himself up to his full height and pull a face as if he were about to plunge his face into a bucket of cold water before resuming his 'text' as it were.
It was an affectation certainly but an effective one. It demonstrated that we were to take the scriptures seriously.
In a different tradition there might be a procession of the Gospel Book and censing etc.
How can physical gestures help us in worship?
Let's give examples.
Bearing in mind, as Mother Maria of Paris reminds us, that we won't be asked how many prostration we made or services we attended but whether we fed the poor, clothed the naked ...
Comments
I might be able to 'kid' some people but not those the icons represent.
I come from a tradition historically known for eschewing if not being downright suspicious of gestures in worship beyond those sacramentally essential (like breaking bread) or postures beyond standing, sitting and, in very limited circumstances, kneeling.* I somehow escaped that aversion and suspicion, and have always been comfortable with and even attracted to use of gestures.
Fortunately for me and others of my tribe like me, there’s been a notable change over the last 50+ years—not a change where you’ll see a church full of Presbyterians making the sign of the cross, but a change where you might see a minister do it when pronouncing the blessing, and you might see a handful of congregants do it, with no one else batting an eye. Or you may see quite a few more than a handful of congregants, while coming up to take Communion, dip a finger in the font and touch it their forehead, or make a small cross on their forehead.
This is all the result of some very intentional work done by seminary professors, liturgical writers and other leaders in the PC(USA) to get us out of our heads and get us willing to embody our worship more. It’s been done not with a “we all ought” approach, but rather with an approach of “those who find it helpful should feel free to.”
* I am reminded of the old joke about the Scottish sailor who found himself in an Anglican Church one Sunday. When asked how he handled the differences, particularly the standing–kneeling–sitting, he answered, “I simply threw out the anchor of my Calvinism and rode the waves.”
Yes, I was conscious of the irony when mentioning my own. I wanted to get them out of the way ... 😉
I think I've posted on this topic before and it is something I'd like to seriously explore, so I'm pleased you responded and from a Reformed position too.
I'm not knocking the traditional Reformed position on these things as I can understand the objections even though I wouldn't accept those objections myself.
One could argue that a lack of 'gestures' or physical movement is in itself a physical response. In the same way that plain, bare whitewashed walls are themselves a design or aesthetic choice - as well as a theological one.
I know some Presbyterians go in for physical expression in worship as well as decoration and so on.
I'm interested in what forms these things take in other traditions.
I had to record the total time spent standing so I could pass it on to my physical therapy people. It came to just half of the entire service, but broken into several segments. Nothing compared to the Orthodox, but quite unusual for most churches I've visited.
In the fog of my mind, I do remember when David brought the tabernacle to Jerusalem the Bible said David danced before the altar (and did not get stuck down).
I can think of a number of hymns that have the 3/4 tempo of a waltz
Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing.
O Worship the King
My Faith Looks up to Thee
I Come with Joy.
Once, our previous pastor encouraged the congregation to get up to dance to the hymn of Shine Jesus Shine (had to be adapted a bit).
We did it only once, though.
The elderly get a bit jiggly in the hips department. Thats lovely too.
Piskie, Piskie, bow and ben’,
On yer knees and up again.
Presbie, Presbie, too proud to bend,
Sit ye doon on man’s chief end.
I don't know the vintage, probably 19th century or early 20th, but does broadly reflect the differences between the Kirk and the SEC in this area. I was flummoxed on first worshipping in the Kirk that the pews were too close to permit kneeling.
I've not seen much of in recent years, so I don't know whether it's still a thing in charismatic circles.
It was more a bop up and down 'charismatic hop' than 'liturgical dance'.
I have seen mime used in worship too.
Sounds a strange thing to distract me, but it does.
I'm a Methodist through and through - my Dad was a Minister. Us Methodists sit down after the hymn. No 'please be seated' is ever said, we just do it. And this is true for all the many, many different Methodist churches I've been to.
Now, once a month, Mr Boogs plays at the C of E in the next village. I go with him as we only have one car.
It catches me every time. I sit down, notice that everyone is still standing, so I stand up thinking I've missed something - only to then hear 'please be seated'.
By then my poor brain has lost all track of the service 🙄
We were invited to sit for the reading of the Passion this morning, though we usually stand for the gospel reading.
The only time I sit down is when the Epistle is read. Most people remain standing as they don't know the form.
We have have odd customs. We don't 'prostrate' at the consecration of the elements on Sundays as it's the 'day of Resurrection' even during Lent but we do so at mid-week Liturgies.
Practices vary between parishes and jurisdictions, which is fine of course, except some people insist that their local practice is the correct way when there is nothing in the canons to say so.
Like the RCs and charismatics of all stripes, the Orthodox believe in the use of the body and physical gestures in worship.
We also believe it's none of our business what other people do in church services but we don't always adhere to that. Lord have mercy!
I find increasingly that people sit rather than kneel for the prayers, at least at my place. I find it particularly disturbing at the number of people who sit for the Eucharistic prayer. This seems to be an ingrained thing because recently we have included the rubric “Please remain standing” at that point in the service sheet.
We also hat the passion this morning. The congregation stands for this, but the direction in the service sheet was to kneel for a short while at the point where Jesus dies. About 90% of the congregations at that point sat for about 10 seconds before standing up again.
In any case, we had some dance as part of a few of our meetings but we’re a slightly charismatic but more evangelical church nowadays.
We dont have kneelers in our church so people sit when kneeling is expected. I would prefer the continental practice of standing for the Eucharistic Prayer. It seems more attentive and respectful than sitting. But there you go.
In most American Presbyterian churches, there will be a printed bulletin for service that provides whatever the congregation needs (except for what might be in the hymnal) to follow the service. As long as I can remember, parts of the service where the congregation are expected to stand are marked by an asterisk or similar mark. When I was growing up, the bulletin would note at an appropriate place: “* Congregations standing.”
A few decades ago, that started being replaced in most places with something along the lines of: “* Please stand in body or spirit.”
Now, the common, and recommended, language is more like: “* invites us to rise in body or spirit.” (This language, particularly saying “rise” rather than “stand,” was suggested by disability advocacy groups in the PC(USA).)
It’s not perfect, but it is an attempt to be mindful and an attempt to make it okay for people not to stand.
While going forward for Communion has become much more common for American Presbyterians, sitting for Communion was long the tradition for us. Again, it reflects an understanding of being seated at the table.
I'm not sure how we deal with that and was and means will vary across the various church traditions.
I'm often struck by how unselfconcious the Eastern Europeans are in our parish. They'll wander around venerating icons or else kneel and bow down or prostrate themselves seemingly at any point in the service irrespective of what other people are doing.
Orthodox Christians tend not to sit or stand on cue and also tend to wander in and out at different times. No 'please be seated' or 'let us stand or knee to pray ...'
There are some 'stage directions' of course, such as 'Bow your heads unto the Lord' and 'Wisdom! Let us attend! Let us hear the Holy Gospel. '
Then there's the 'The doors! The doors!' thing and 'Depart ye catechumens! Let all catechumens depart. Let no catechumens remain,' when none of them actually leave the building.
We're odd that way.
These days I tend to perch myself near the choir and to sing along with the chants and hymns (troporia) I know even though few other people do. The only 'congregational' aspect as it were is the recitation of the Creed, the Lord's Prayer, in several languages, and the Orthodox equivalent of the Anglican 'prayer of humble access, 'I believe Lord and I confess that this is is truly Thine own Immaculate Body ...' etc
I'll join in with the 'Lord have mercy' responses and 'Grant this Oh Lord' and make 'metanias' during the 'Thrice-Holy Hymn' and at other points in the service.
There are some things I'll pass on. Some of the Romanians in our parish will reach out and touch the priest or deacon's vestments as they process with the Holy Gifts but neither of them like that and I refrain for that reason and because I think it veers towards superstition.
There seems to be more 'movement' and 'actions' in our parish than I've seen in some Greek parishes I've visited, but I don't know whether that's generally the case.
Making the sign of the cross whenever the Holy Trinity is mentioned or invoked, making a bow or 'metania' and lighting candles before the holy icons and venerating them feels entirely natural to me now and I can't envisage never having done so.
I behave in a 'Western' way when visiting non-Orthodox churches though but will make the sign of the cross in an Orthodox fashion.
I'll sing the hymns and worship songs in other churches but would keep my hands firmly at my sides these days. As might be expected, I now feel more comfortable in traditional style services or more sacramental ones, RC or traditional Anglican.
I wouldn't object to a Methodist or Baptist style 'non-conformist' service and find those edifying even though they aren't where I'm 'at' as it were - although Methodist services feel closer and more 'Anglican' to some extent.
I've never been to a Lutheran service but I'd imagine I'd find those conducive and recognise some parallels. I'd have to watch out for the cues as to when to sit, kneel or stand.
As for other 'physical expressions', I've not seen it done in real life but there seemed to be a bit of a vogue in some charismatic gatherings in recent years for there to be someone producing an art work, a painting of an eagle or something symbolic like that, during the worship.
I've seen that on the telly and wondered whether it was seen as being 'prophetic' in some way or a visual expression that captured the 'mood' of the meeting as it were.
Has anyone seen that done and can comment on this particular practice?
Two contexts in which I have seen paintings done in a way that I can see might be particularly meaningful are weddings and ordinations of ministers. (Among us, ordination of ministers, as opposed to of elders or deacons, is generally an individual, one-per-service, thing.) When the service is over, the couple or the ordinand have that painting that can be hung in their home or study.
And I certainly would not want to see any return to the days when people either were, or felt they were likely to be, glared at and made to feel very uncomfortable if they 'did it wrong'.
There would seem to be a parallel with the Orthodox practice around the painting of icons.
We also sometimes have displays of art by members of the congregation, either by a single artist or in response to a communal call for contributions on a subject. I have previously submitted a fused glass cross artwork for an Easter display, as well as art quilts and textile media.
I am an evil, evil person, but what if we went ALL the way back to original practice and had everyone reclining on one elbow?
Really though, I always thought that sounds so uncomfortable.
Interesting thought, @Lamb Chopped. They are always sat at a table in depictions of the Last Supper.
Of course, we all know they all queued up to receive communion by spoon from a chalice like the Orthodox do today ... 😉
@Arethosemyfeet - yes, I find an intriguing parallel between artworks created 'live' during a church service and the Orthodox use of icons. Perhaps a similar 'impulse' lies behind each practice despite the differences in execution or intent.
Orthodox icons aren't painted 'live' in church services of course. The services would go on even longer if they were!
But they are painted prayerfully and meditatively and are effectively a form of visual prayer.
@Enoch, yes, I entirely agree. I've seen several very impressively choreographed Anglo-Catholic services and one in particular that stays in the memory in that regard.
I remember visiting a parish in South Wales while the priest was away on holiday. The visiting priest was nowhere near as strict and you could feel the relief all round.
I wish I could say that there aren't glares and scoldings in Orthodox circles when people don't do things 'right'.
Our parish priest has a tendency to do that, I'm afraid and sometimes we get visitors from other parishes who find fault with something or other that isn't done the same way as it is in theirs.
Almost invariably it is something so minor as not to be worth fussing about.
@Heavenlyannie - I like the idea of displays of arts and crafts. That's something I'd like to see adopted more widely.
Am I mistaken, but weren't they also reclining on their neighbour?
Sometimes the leader may say “Please stand if you are able”.
Our choir turns east for the Creed. I find that focus is unifying.
I conform with the practice of choir bowing to the altar after processing in, though I don’t agree with it.
I like the practice of turning towards the Gospel, especially when it is read from a central aisle. We don’t do that.
I freely admit to not enjoying, even avoiding, our monthly family service, where anything can happen. There is always movement, including action songs, making aids to prayer, conversing with a neighbour……
Well , yes, if you leaned backwards. My understanding is that you had three people per couch (I suspect this could vary) and each of you would be in the “reclining on elbow with head to table and feet out the other way” position. The body would be pretty much straight. So most of the time you wouldn’t be touching unless you wanted to, or if you were crowded (small couch, hefty couchmates).
You can see how this dining position would make it easy for someone to come in and cry all over Jesus’ feet, which would have been hanging off the back of the couch (or nearly so). And since the three of you on one couch are parallel to one another, it would be easy to speak confidentially to the person next to you. Just lean towards them. If John were in front of Jesus (that is, in the position to his right), all John would have to do is lean backwards on his left elbow, which would put him against Jesus’ chest for the moment.
(It occurs to me that some people might be envisioning a modern style couch/sofa. These were basically the shape of a bed, with no backs sticking up anywhere to get in the way. The photo I saw had a set of four dining couches arranged around a central table of the same height. The couches themselves sloped downward a bit, with the highest side at the table.)
I believe some families made do with cushions on the floor instead of dining couches, which were probably heavy, expensive, and took up room a poorer family might have needed for other uses. In this case, you might have a really low table or, I suppose, just lay a tablecloth on the floor, Vietnamese style.
I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to avoid personal preferences in this thread and recognise I'm taking a risk by asking the following question ...
I hope you don't mind my curiosity but I'm wondering why you object to the choir processing and bowing to the altar yet hsve no issue with turning towards the Gospel when it is read, as presumably, in these days of amplification it's not necessary to do so in order to hear the words?
Is it a theological objection or simply a preference thing?
In my case if I were Anglican or anything other than Orthodox I'd also avoid 'family services' with all the action songs and discussing things with your neighbour and so forth.
That's purely a personal preference thing on my part rather than any theological objection as such.
I'm a curmudgeonly old git. If I want to converse with someone I'll do so after the service.
There are some pious practices I won't do in an Orthodox context and nobody minds that. The only one I can think of at the moment is the touching of priestly or deaconly vestments - although it is a venerable tradition in some quarters with echoes of the woman who touched Christ's garments.
I 'get' the reference but it seems a step too far. That said, I do things which my Protestant brothers and sisters might question or baulk at, such as venerating icons, invoking the Theotokos and the Saints and so on.
Just thinking aloud ...
Turning for the Gospel and the Creed are matters of focus, unity.
Bowing at/ to the altar ?
Who/ what are we bowing to and why?
I don’t bow to God or at the name of Jesus.
I don’t bow to a table. I don’t object to others bowing. I conform with local practice so as not to cause offence, though when I am reading I rarely bow then, when I step out to turn towards the lectern. Some do, some don’t. I don’t mind what others do. Maybe others are bowing to God at the altar, but to my way of thinking, God is not ‘there’.
One could argue that the altar is a focus of unity too, although given the grievous fractures within Christendom over what we believe does or doesn't happen there ...
I was intrigued by your stance on these things and am not out to argue one way or another on issues like 'The Real Presence' in the Eucharist etc.
I know Orthodox clergy who nod or bow slightly towards the altar when visiting an Anglican or RC church and I'll do that myself when I find a church open to visit in town or countryside.
I don't think about it intently but do it as a mark of respect.
I knew an RC priest who crossed himself every time he walked past an RC church or passed one on the bus - I'm not sure about when he was driving.
He told me he did so as a sign of solidarity with what was done there.
I had some good-natured push-back from a 'non-denominational' friend when I referred to 'Holy Week'. Aren't all weeks holy?
My reply of course, was, 'Yes, but some are holier than others ...'
I must admit I do have a problem with aumbries and the Reserved Sacrament in Exposition and Benediction as practised by RC and Anglo-Catholic churches.
I've never felt entirely comfortable with that. But then we Orthodox have parallels to that to some extent.
I don't have a problem venerating icons so by that logic shouldn't really have an issue with bowing before an altar.
If it's the case with icons that the veneration goes 'through' them to the archetype, then it would logically follow that veneration or respect shown in some way to an an altar is a way of honouring what that represents.
It doesn't mean that God 'who is present everywhere and filleth all things' is restricted to an altar or aumbry in time and space of course nor that he isn't present in the natural world, or when people 'gather in his name' or in the workaday world.
Our respective mileages will vary within our various Christian traditions as to the extent that we are 'maximalists' or 'minimalists about such things.
The congregation turning to the East—which in practice often means just the clergy and choir, as pews already have the congregation facing East—to say the Apostles’ Creed functions, then, as a reaffirmation of baptism.
With regard to reclining around a table, the practice among early American Presbyterians was to have benches on either side of the table. Communicants would come to and sit around the table in successive groups of whatever size the table and benches would accommodate. This was referred to as “serving by tables.” It could take a long time.
I’m pretty sure I remember learning that serving by tables had Scottish roots, and that of course wouldn’t be surprising, but I don’t feel competent to comment on that.
I’m aware of a handful of American Presbyterian churches that still have benches around the table, including one church built in the 1960s, or thereabouts. How often, if ever, those benches are used, I can’t say. An educated guess would be that if they ever use them, it’s on Maundy Thursday. Other Presbyterian churches will often either (1) serve by tables on Maundy Thursday, with people standing around rather than sitting at the table, or (2) have the Maundy Thursday service in the church’s fellowship hall, with everyone sitting at tables.
One advantage of serving by tables or serving in the pews is that allows all communicants to both be served and to serve others, as they pass the elements to one another.
I'm one who bows to the altar if I'm up and around the chancel doing something there, and for me and mine, it's very clearly not bowing to a table, or to an object at all. It's bowing to the Lord--that's who my mind is on, and the physical altar just gives me a way to "locate" him in space, if you see what I mean--hard to bow to someone who is omnipresent otherwise! I mean, you have to choose a direction... unless you're gifted at whirling around in that position, I suppose... But as far as my awareness goes, I barely see the altar when I'm doing that--my focus is not on the physical, anymore than it is when I'm talking on the phone to a loved one.
Definitely Scottish roots @Nick Tamen . The church I attended as a very small child still has the benches round the table, fixed there. On normal Sundays the children sat there before going out to Sunday School, but originally these were the communion seats for the various seatings for the sacrament.
This accords with the Orthodox understanding of such things.
'Matter matters.'
Icons are often referred to as 'windows into heaven.' We look 'through' them rather than 'at' them - and some aren't that good artistically any way ...
I can't speak for all Orthodox of course but I would nod or bow towards a Lutheran altar and possibly make the sign of the cross while I was at it. In doing so, I wouldn't be paying tribute to wood, stone or whatever material it was made of but acknowledging that it is a central locus or focus for that community's celebration of the eucharist - and that God is in some way 'behind' or 'involved' in that.
Officially of course, the Orthodox Church only recognises the 'validity' of a eucharist celebrated by a priest ordained by an Orthodox Bishop but in practice that doesn't seem to stop the Orthodox I know, clergy and laity from crossing themselves or making a slight bow before an altar, cross or other fitting or fixture in a non-Orthodox church.
You'll hear varying accounts but other than from real anti-ecumenical hardliners I don’t hear anyone doubting that God meets people in and through non-Orthodox services and ceremonies.
I'm happy to bow towards any Trinitarian altar, cross or even a plaster statue - shock, horror - even though we don't tend to go in for 3D representations.
I must admit I won't do the latter if it's a particularly hideous or off-putting one - although I recognise that's a culturally loaded and subjective judgement.
Perhaps in the UK. Definitely not in the US.