Meanwhile, I do so hope and pray (as I'm sure we all do) that The House of Toddlers enjoys its Christmas and New Year Holiday, and that the little kiddies will return, re-invigorated, to oversee the foundering of Ukland below the cold grey Sea.
And now in her New Year Sermon, Treeza has appealed for national unity - if we all do exactly as she says, bluebirds will sing and the sun will shine. Apparently.
And please take no notice of those very possibly corrupt contracts made with a shipping company which happens to have no ships but on which we will soon be relying for our daily bread. Nothing to see here, just do as she says and we'll be fine once we've 'turned the corner.'
On the subject of benevolent dictatorships, the UK seems to run pretty well between Parliament being dissolved and a new government being formed, so it makes one wonder if HMtQ actually needs a Prime Minister, etc, etc and that the country could be run by a Privy Council plus the Civil Service, under the Permanent Secretary to a reconstituted Cabinet consisting of the permanent heads of the civil service deparments.
A good PM knows when to push your own agenda and when to listen to Parliament and the people. Treeza is not in that category.
As to not having a PM. Sounds great but anyone acting on behalf of the monarch is de facto the PM
On the subject of benevolent dictatorships, the UK seems to run pretty well between Parliament being dissolved and a new government being formed, so it makes one wonder if HMtQ actually needs a Prime Minister, etc, etc and that the country could be run by a Privy Council plus the Civil Service, under the Permanent Secretary to a reconstituted Cabinet consisting of the permanent heads of the civil service deparments.
IIRC, I made that point earlier (or perhaps it was on another thread?). Those of us of A Certain Age might, however, quail at the thought of Sir Humphrey Appleby in charge - but then again, perhaps not.
So will she or won’t she delay the parliamentary vote again. Most commentators thing because she knows she can’t win she will. So much for the sovereignty of parliament.
David Davis can shut up as well. Nothing good can come of encouraging the government to play chicken with the EU.
She'd really struggle to justify delaying the vote again. Last time the delay was on the basis of needing time for other EU nations and the Commission to clarify points on the deal ... she can't use that ruse again, she has all the clarification she's going to get. And, she's pushed the time envelope to the last minute, possibly slightly beyond, so a further delay is likely to result in her deal not being concluded by the end of March even if it's passed by Parliament.
I think she's now decided that no-deal is the only way to "deliver brexit". Which is particularly painful when there appears no way to stop her doing it... unless some Tories decide to being the government down.
I think she's now decided that no-deal is the only way to "deliver brexit". Which is particularly painful when there appears no way to stop her doing it... unless some Tories decide to being the government down.
I think she's now decided that no-deal is the only way to "deliver brexit". Which is particularly painful when there appears no way to stop her doing it... unless some Tories decide to being the government down.
Is that a possibility, do you think?
The only way it can happen now is for a few Tories to vote against their own party in a vote of no confidence in the government. Given parliamentary arithmetic I think it’s certainly possible that enough Tories might do so (or abstain) to presage a general election.
Of course, for that to happen Labour actually has to call for such a vote first.
Labour have threatened to call it. They need to get on with it
They had better work out what they will do if the government falls and they are invited to form another one. At the moment they can all too easily be portrayed as not having a clue.
And now the news has broken that the 'shipping company' that has no ships but which has been handed a whopping shipping contract by this bunch of corrupt tossers actually copied the Terms and Conditions on their website from - of all things - a pizza delivery site.
How reassuring to know that all due diligence was undertaken before giving them the contract.
If there is a properly worded motion of no confidence in the government, we might well be totally screwed.
Whoever advises the Crown on constitutional law might well tell her to ask someone else to try to form a government.
Let's say that Labour wins a vote before the end of January. So the Queen asks JC if he can form a stable administration. The chances are that the DUP would vote against a minority Labour administration, so the most obvious answer is no.
The normal course of events is then to proceed to a GE. But that's then going to take us beyond the March deadline - and unless the EU allows some grace, a default no-deal Brexit. The best information I've read is that they basically are unable to extend the deadline beyond the Euro-parliamentary elections in July.
So let's say JC tells the Queen he is going to try to run a minority gov with support from the SNP and others. He tries for a few days/weeks but then fails a no confidence vote himself (which should be relatively easy for the Tories and DUP) - plunging us into a GE. Which might be called in mid Feb (possibly earlier if the Queen tells him not to even bother trying).
So if the campaign takes four weeks, it's going to be pretty close to the March deadline - with no time for a new gov to negotiate anything new.
Let's assume the EU delay the deadline until July. The chances are that a GE gives another hung parliament. And JC basically wants Brexit, so he's most likely to use the time to try to negotiate if he wins.
And he can't possibly get what he's asking for - so the best that happens is that there is no-deal in July rather than March. With months of uncertainty ratcheting up.
The only way I can see to avoid this mess might be for a realignment of MPs in the existing Parliament straight after a no confidence vote.
So the May administration gets binned. Corbyn tries and fails to set up an administration.
Then someone else gathers support from a cross-section of MPs who are in the majority - presumably as a caretaker government to avoid the Brexit no deal cliff-face.
I assume that there is a majority in the HoC against no-deal. So if they all vote for a compromise PM who promises that we are not doing that either in March or July, then possibly/maybe there is a way to do it without an election - which would almost inevitably lead to being forced off the cliff.
Mind you, other than revoking A50, I'm not sure what a compromise PM could do to stop no-deal..
Mind you, other than revoking A50, I'm not sure what a compromise PM could do to stop no-deal..
Call another referendum? I know that time is tight, but in fact I understand that money has already been allocated for the UK to hold elections to the EU Parliament, so the July deadline at least isn't as final as it sounds.
Mind you, other than revoking A50, I'm not sure what a compromise PM could do to stop no-deal..
Call another referendum? I know that time is tight, but in fact I understand that money has already been allocated for the UK to hold elections to the EU Parliament, so the July deadline at least isn't as final as it sounds.
That's interesting, I'd not heard that. I wonder if there is political will in the EU to delay longer.
Time is tight, but a referendum between the deal on the table and remain in the EU would be a way for the government (whether Tory or Labour, or anyone else) to get somewhere - these are the only realistically possible options (no deal has insufficient support, and another deal can't be negotiated). If held before March then a remain vote means the UK withdraws A50 and we stay in the EU, with a rushed election in May to be organised and taking the hit of the costs already incurred. And, a vote for the deal on the table makes that the will of the people, and it happens without needing Parliament to do anything but wave it through.
There is no point in Corbyn calling a vote of no confidence in the government if he can not win the vote. He has more chance of winning a no confidence motion if May’s deal is voted down by the HoC. There is no point in calling one now.
Requesting a vote of no confidence in the pm was not an error of wording, it was an attempt to see if there were enough actual Tory rebels win a confidence vote against the government.
Unfortunately many people thought the referendum in 2016 was a chance to vote "no confidence" in the system. Which was misinterpreted as being a vote for something by the PTB. That's what's got us where we are.
According to a poll in today's Telegraph, a majority of Tory party members (not that there's really a lot of them, these days) are in favour of leaving the EU without a deal because they think that all the arguments against it are based on figures which are 'made up.'
Like the numbers that Boris put on the side of a bus, perhaps?
Can we have a vote of no confidence in the parliamentary process and the version of democracy that we have?
It is a failed system.
You only think that because it’s not currently delivering the policies you favour.
No, sorry. There is something that's highly likely to happen because there is no majority for any other option. So we get something by default because there is no parliamentary majority for something else.
That's not a statement from a political position, that's a fact about parliamentary failure.
I think the parliamentary failure at this point is May running roughshod over Parliament to hold a gun to the country's head. That's an abuse of position.
They are right, in a sense. Nobody knows the consequences or the figures - ‘tho any sensible person can see it’s the worst of all possible outcomes. 🙄
Well, we already know some of the figures. For instance, we know how many lorries currently come inbound to the UK from Europe every day, so we can work out what the additional delay would be if we needed to spend, say, an additional three minutes on customs checks on each one – and given the current panic about migrants, such checks will certainly take place.
Simply multiply the number of lorries (5,000 inbound through Dover daily on average) by that three minutes and you can work out how long even a brief additional customs check will add up to in total; then repeat that calculation for everything going the other way - a cumulative delay of 250 hours each way every 24 hours that passes.
The maths is easy; the answer is that we're screwed.
I think the parliamentary failure at this point is May running roughshod over Parliament to hold a gun to the country's head. That's an abuse of position.
From the late Lord Denning (not that I agree with all the views he so succinctly expressed from time to time), this is priceless:
The House of Commons starts its proceedings with a prayer. The chaplain looks at the assembled members with their varied intelligence and then prays for the country.
From the late Lord Denning (not that I agree with all the views he so succinctly expressed from time to time), this is priceless:
The House of Commons starts its proceedings with a prayer. The chaplain looks at the assembled members with their varied intelligence and then prays for the country.
The Daily Telegraph (12 October 1989)
I wish the HoC didn't start proceedings with prayer. The results do little to encourage belief in the efficacy of the practice.
I used to enjoy saying the response in the liturgy:
Oh Lord save the Queen And teach her counsellors wisdom
I'm more used to the older version:
And endow her ministers with righteousness.
This bunch of crooks wouldn't know either wisdom or righteousness if either of them bit them on the arse. And I include Treeza herself in that condemnation.
From the late Lord Denning (not that I agree with all the views he so succinctly expressed from time to time), this is priceless:
The House of Commons starts its proceedings with a prayer. The chaplain looks at the assembled members with their varied intelligence and then prays for the country.
The Daily Telegraph (12 October 1989)
I wish the HoC didn't start proceedings with prayer. The results do little to encourage belief in the efficacy of the practice.
Alas, all too true.
Perhaps the best thing would be to pray for The Second Coming Of Our Lord, who will surely consign the Westminster Kindergarten to Limbo, or Purgatory (delete as applicable, according to mental age).
Can we have a vote of no confidence in the parliamentary process and the version of democracy that we have?
It is a failed system.
You only think that because it’s not currently delivering the policies you favour.
No. I have thought is is a failed system for a long time. A very long time. There is something fundamentally flawed in the process, in the system. The current shitshow is merely some of the worst examples of what this produces.
I used to enjoy saying the response in the liturgy:
Oh Lord save the Queen And teach her counsellors wisdom
I'm more used to the older version:
And endow her ministers with righteousness.… <snip>
I knew this didn’t sound quite right. The text of these two preces and responses is
Priest. O Lord, save the Queen.
Answer. And mercifully hear us when we call upon thee.
Priest. Endue thy [my emphasis] Ministers with righteousness.
Answer. And make thy chosen people joyful.
I used to enjoy saying the response in the liturgy:
Oh Lord save the Queen And teach her counsellors wisdom
I'm more used to the older version:
And endow her ministers with righteousness.… <snip>
I knew this didn’t sound quite right. The text of these two preces and responses is
Priest. O Lord, save the Queen.
Answer. And mercifully hear us when we call upon thee.
Priest. Endue thy [my emphasis] Ministers with righteousness.
Answer. And make thy chosen people joyful.
Yes, of course you're right and I'm wrong. I hide my head in shame!
Either way, the sooner we can all feel joyful again, the better!
Comments
And please take no notice of those very possibly corrupt contracts made with a shipping company which happens to have no ships but on which we will soon be relying for our daily bread. Nothing to see here, just do as she says and we'll be fine once we've 'turned the corner.'
Looks like we have another PM who thinks she is the Queen
She can appeal for it all she likes but, until she works towards it, nothing will happen.
As to not having a PM. Sounds great but anyone acting on behalf of the monarch is de facto the PM
IIRC, I made that point earlier (or perhaps it was on another thread?). Those of us of A Certain Age might, however, quail at the thought of Sir Humphrey Appleby in charge - but then again, perhaps not.
David Davis can shut up as well. Nothing good can come of encouraging the government to play chicken with the EU.
Is that a possibility, do you think?
The only way it can happen now is for a few Tories to vote against their own party in a vote of no confidence in the government. Given parliamentary arithmetic I think it’s certainly possible that enough Tories might do so (or abstain) to presage a general election.
Of course, for that to happen Labour actually has to call for such a vote first.
They had better work out what they will do if the government falls and they are invited to form another one. At the moment they can all too easily be portrayed as not having a clue.
How reassuring to know that all due diligence was undertaken before giving them the contract.
If there is a properly worded motion of no confidence in the government, we might well be totally screwed.
Whoever advises the Crown on constitutional law might well tell her to ask someone else to try to form a government.
Let's say that Labour wins a vote before the end of January. So the Queen asks JC if he can form a stable administration. The chances are that the DUP would vote against a minority Labour administration, so the most obvious answer is no.
The normal course of events is then to proceed to a GE. But that's then going to take us beyond the March deadline - and unless the EU allows some grace, a default no-deal Brexit. The best information I've read is that they basically are unable to extend the deadline beyond the Euro-parliamentary elections in July.
So let's say JC tells the Queen he is going to try to run a minority gov with support from the SNP and others. He tries for a few days/weeks but then fails a no confidence vote himself (which should be relatively easy for the Tories and DUP) - plunging us into a GE. Which might be called in mid Feb (possibly earlier if the Queen tells him not to even bother trying).
So if the campaign takes four weeks, it's going to be pretty close to the March deadline - with no time for a new gov to negotiate anything new.
Let's assume the EU delay the deadline until July. The chances are that a GE gives another hung parliament. And JC basically wants Brexit, so he's most likely to use the time to try to negotiate if he wins.
And he can't possibly get what he's asking for - so the best that happens is that there is no-deal in July rather than March. With months of uncertainty ratcheting up.
The only way I can see to avoid this mess might be for a realignment of MPs in the existing Parliament straight after a no confidence vote.
So the May administration gets binned. Corbyn tries and fails to set up an administration.
Then someone else gathers support from a cross-section of MPs who are in the majority - presumably as a caretaker government to avoid the Brexit no deal cliff-face.
I assume that there is a majority in the HoC against no-deal. So if they all vote for a compromise PM who promises that we are not doing that either in March or July, then possibly/maybe there is a way to do it without an election - which would almost inevitably lead to being forced off the cliff.
Mind you, other than revoking A50, I'm not sure what a compromise PM could do to stop no-deal..
Call another referendum? I know that time is tight, but in fact I understand that money has already been allocated for the UK to hold elections to the EU Parliament, so the July deadline at least isn't as final as it sounds.
That's interesting, I'd not heard that. I wonder if there is political will in the EU to delay longer.
Alan, Alan, Alan. Wake up. Not even nuclear physicists could warp the space-time continuum that far.
Requesting a vote of no confidence in the pm was not an error of wording, it was an attempt to see if there were enough actual Tory rebels win a confidence vote against the government.
It is a failed system.
Like the numbers that Boris put on the side of a bus, perhaps?
You only think that because it’s not currently delivering the policies you favour.
No, sorry. There is something that's highly likely to happen because there is no majority for any other option. So we get something by default because there is no parliamentary majority for something else.
That's not a statement from a political position, that's a fact about parliamentary failure.
Well, we already know some of the figures. For instance, we know how many lorries currently come inbound to the UK from Europe every day, so we can work out what the additional delay would be if we needed to spend, say, an additional three minutes on customs checks on each one – and given the current panic about migrants, such checks will certainly take place.
Simply multiply the number of lorries (5,000 inbound through Dover daily on average) by that three minutes and you can work out how long even a brief additional customs check will add up to in total; then repeat that calculation for everything going the other way - a cumulative delay of 250 hours each way every 24 hours that passes.
The maths is easy; the answer is that we're screwed.
Her and tRump alike 🙄
The House of Commons starts its proceedings with a prayer. The chaplain looks at the assembled members with their varied intelligence and then prays for the country.
The Daily Telegraph (12 October 1989)
Oh Lord save the Queen
And teach her counsellors wisdom
I wish the HoC didn't start proceedings with prayer. The results do little to encourage belief in the efficacy of the practice.
I'm more used to the older version:
And endow her ministers with righteousness.
This bunch of crooks wouldn't know either wisdom or righteousness if either of them bit them on the arse. And I include Treeza herself in that condemnation.
Alas, all too true.
Perhaps the best thing would be to pray for The Second Coming Of Our Lord, who will surely consign the Westminster Kindergarten to Limbo, or Purgatory (delete as applicable, according to mental age).
No. I have thought is is a failed system for a long time. A very long time. There is something fundamentally flawed in the process, in the system. The current shitshow is merely some of the worst examples of what this produces.
Then again, I am an anarchist at heart.
I knew this didn’t sound quite right. The text of these two preces and responses is
Yes, of course you're right and I'm wrong. I hide my head in shame!
Either way, the sooner we can all feel joyful again, the better!
It helps to treat the liturgy as being sarcastic, I find.
And we are so screwed.