Let me make it clear; the Treeza Rant thread

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  • It shows how far Brexit has eroded political life that Farage is holding ecstatic public meetings. Read John Crace's description of one in the Guardian, he says at the end, he was shit scared, not because it was violent, but unthinking and full of lies.
  • It might not be cheerful, but it is important to accept that a right wing shift is quite possible in the UK.

    Which is why we need to fight and not give in. Never assume that it could never happen here. Always fight to ensure it doesn't.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    It might not be cheerful, but it is important to accept that a right wing shift is quite possible in the UK.

    Which is why we need to fight and not give in. Never assume that it could never happen here. Always fight to ensure it doesn't.

    Indeed. But Treeza will surely take the wrong lesson from the forthcoming Tory poll disaster, and kowtow even more to the right wing of her own party, rather than face them down. And in the meantime we are reportedly heading towards US levels of inequality.
  • Because if you degrade workers' rights to collectively bargain, the bosses take all of the money for themselves.

    Who on earth could have predicted that outcome?
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Because if you degrade workers' rights to collectively bargain, the bosses take all of the money for themselves.

    Who on earth could have predicted that outcome?

    Yep. ‘I blame Thatcher’ is something I’ve said for years. But it all tracks back to Thatcherism imo



  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Boogie wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Because if you degrade workers' rights to collectively bargain, the bosses take all of the money for themselves.

    Who on earth could have predicted that outcome?

    Yep. ‘I blame Thatcher’ is something I’ve said for years. But it all tracks back to Thatcherism imo



    It trails back to those days, it is far worse now. Back in the eighties the worst excesses of Thatcherism, driven mostly by Keith Joseph, were constrained by Michael Heseltine, Francis Pym, Kenneth Clark and Geoffrey Howe. Even Norman Lamont and John Major had more empathy than the current Cabinet.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    sionisais wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Because if you degrade workers' rights to collectively bargain, the bosses take all of the money for themselves.

    Who on earth could have predicted that outcome?

    Yep. ‘I blame Thatcher’ is something I’ve said for years. But it all tracks back to Thatcherism imo



    It trails back to those days, it is far worse now. Back in the eighties the worst excesses of Thatcherism, driven mostly by Keith Joseph, were constrained by Michael Heseltine, Francis Pym, Kenneth Clark and Geoffrey Howe. Even Norman Lamont and John Major had more empathy than the current Cabinet.

    I once met Sir Keith, aka The Mad Monk, and quickly realised that his moniker was spot-on.

    On one occasion he apparently took the view that although some policy or other worked perfectly well in practice, it didn't work in theory. So he ditched it.
  • Andras wrote: »
    But Treeza will surely take the wrong lesson from the forthcoming Tory poll disaster, and kowtow even more to the right wing of her own party, rather than face them down.

    This. 1000% this. The constant right wing drift because so-called moderate Conservatives put power and party before country whilst at the same time having the bare faced cheek to argue that Corbyn is a big threat to our country makes my blood boil.

    AFZ
  • Received my European Parliament election card today.

    How will I vote?

    How could I vote, to ensure that the 'government' (sic) gets a bloody nose?

    Not for the Unspeakable G**bage, that's for sure. He's a character straight out of H. P. Lovecraft.....

    Advice gratefully received.

  • If it's specifically the government, vote Labour. If you're not enamoured with their recent performance either then vote Green. If you vote lib dem they only change their minds at the first sniff of a ministerial car.
  • A vote for Labour would be seen as pro-Brexit since their 2017 manifesto was to respect the 2016 vote result. Unless they come out as strongly in favour of a referendum then votes for them will be presented in that light by the Brexiteers (regardless of the reality). If you want to make a statement that you want a referendum then that's probably not the way to vote. If you just want to make sure it's a vote against the government, and you're generally supportive of Labour policies, then maybe that's the right vote.

    ChangeUK are an unknown quantity, and at present their only clear policy is for a referendum on whatever deal the government/Parliament actually manages to cook up. Which does make them an anti-Brexit party, along with the LibDems and Greens (plus SNP and PC where appropriate).

  • The tiggers are polling too low to be in with a chance at a seat in most regions though. Might as well throw Renew in there too.
  • I think you should vote Green. Of course. They are the truly socialist party, oppose Brexit, and are for serious action on the climate.
  • jay_emmjay_emm Shipmate
    It is nearer prop representation. So to some extent vote for what you want (rather than having to play chicken with us. )

    That said, there are some anomilies, so if the party is that small then worry.
    The papers and parties will try to spin the narratice 21 brexit, 20greens, 20 change, 20 lib dem, 15 lab and 4 tory will have headlines.

    The parties will interact.

    Britain is divided, Remainers will upset galf the country and make them feel betrayed constitytiinally, brexiters will uoset half the country and betray british values and reputatuin. Labour will disatisfy everyone and feeling let down.
  • I think you should vote Green. Of course. They are the truly socialist party, oppose Brexit, and are for serious action on the climate.

    Noted - thanks!
    :wink:

  • Something that might help is the full list of MEP candidates standing and the list of current MEPs - that one you'll have to enter your region.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Why not vote fora candidate you think will represent you well in the European Parliament, however short a time they are there. Until this crap gets sorted we are still members and I personally want someone who will understand the EP and work within it. They should work in there constituents’ interest. A pipe dream I know but we can all dream
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Because if you degrade workers' rights to collectively bargain, the bosses take all of the money for themselves.

    Who on earth could have predicted that outcome?

    The answer of course is idiotic idealistic lefties who don't understand economics etc. etc. etc. etc.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    edited May 2019
    Received my European Parliament election card today.

    How will I vote?

    How could I vote, to ensure that the 'government' (sic) gets a bloody nose?

    Not for the Unspeakable G**bage, that's for sure. He's a character straight out of H. P. Lovecraft.....

    Advice gratefully received.

    This [(fundraising site redacted, because we don't allow that)], set up by Gina Miller, offers good advice.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    And idiot right wingers who can’t see beyond the profit they can maximise by paying people badly and a government who sucks up to them
  • Ex_OrganistEx_Organist Shipmate
    edited May 2019
    Andras wrote: »
    Received my European Parliament election card today.

    How will I vote?

    How could I vote, to ensure that the 'government' (sic) gets a bloody nose?

    Not for the Unspeakable G**bage, that's for sure. He's a character straight out of H. P. Lovecraft.....

    Advice gratefully received.

    This [(ditto)], set up by Gina Miller, offers good advice.

    That link is to the fundraising page. The advice page is here: https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/

    with advice from an organisation with similar motives here: https://www.remainvoter.com/
  • Gina Millers arguments for tactical voting are flawed. It doesn't work so well with a PR system.

    It is hugely complex. You should vote for the party you want to win. That is the point of PR.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    edited May 2019
    Andras wrote: »
    Received my European Parliament election card today.

    How will I vote?

    How could I vote, to ensure that the 'government' (sic) gets a bloody nose?

    Not for the Unspeakable G**bage, that's for sure. He's a character straight out of H. P. Lovecraft.....

    Advice gratefully received.

    This [(ffs)], set up by Gina Miller, offers good advice.

    That link is to the fundraising page. The advice page is here: https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/

    with advice from an organisation with similar motives here: https://www.remainvoter.com/

    Thanks! That's the link I meant to post. I obviously needed more coffee!
  • Gina Millers arguments for tactical voting are flawed. It doesn't work so well with a PR system.

    It is hugely complex. You should vote for the party you want to win. That is the point of PR.

    The merits of Gina Millers arguments aside; D'Hondt isn't a purely PR system, and for some of the smaller regions in the UK (with fewer seats) the results can start to approach FPTP (you can come third and get 15% in the NE and end up with no MEPs)
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 2019
    Gina Millers arguments for tactical voting are flawed. It doesn't work so well with a PR system.

    It is hugely complex. You should vote for the party you want to win. That is the point of PR.

    Indeed. And so I shall do.
    :wink:

    But, as TIACWS, it won't be for The Unnameable....
    :innocent:

  • Andras wrote: »
    Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

    Well, I'd say Churchill is easily the bigger monster...

  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Treeza has said she will go after the vote in June. Almost immediately Boris (crikey) Johnson pipped his head above the parapet. Please tell me the Tory party has more sense than to put him in number 10. We are already a laughing stock.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    Hugal wrote: »
    Treeza has said she will go after the vote in June. Almost immediately Boris (crikey) Johnson pipped his head above the parapet. Please tell me the Tory party has more sense than to put him in number 10. We are already a laughing stock.

    Actually, she's said that she will set a timetable for going after that vote.
    Always assuming that the vote takes place, of course. It's not as if she's ever promised a vote and then reneged on that promise, is it?

    BoJo will break the party in half; a substantial number of Tory MPs see him for the incompetent, lying, treacherous bastard that he is. The party membership, on the other hand, think he's wonderful.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Andras wrote: »
    Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

    Well, I'd say Churchill is easily the bigger monster...

    By far. But he was OUR monster.

    In what way is May incompetent? She lost her majority with the dementia tax, showing incredible political incompetence. Even though it was excellent socialism.

    And as for the appalling Johnson, at least he won't have to watch his back.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Andras wrote: »
    Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

    Well, I'd say Churchill is easily the bigger monster...

    By far. But he was OUR monster.

    The Welsh and the Scots won't agree with you still less the Australians and New Zealanders; memories of Gallipoli run deep and Canadians too, thanks to Vimy Ridge and the Dieppe fiasco.
  • Martin54 wrote: »

    And as for the appalling Johnson, at least he won't have to watch his back.

    Why, is Gove in front of him this time?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    sionisais wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Andras wrote: »
    Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

    Well, I'd say Churchill is easily the bigger monster...

    By far. But he was OUR monster.

    The Welsh and the Scots won't agree with you still less the Australians and New Zealanders; memories of Gallipoli run deep and Canadians too, thanks to Vimy Ridge and the Dieppe fiasco.

    Aye. Why not the Scots?
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »

    And as for the appalling Johnson, at least he won't have to watch his back.

    Why, is Gove in front of him this time?

    Gove is interesting. A decent bloke, by George Galloway. He's be a Johnny Major figure. Unfortunately Johnson has... charisma.
  • ClimacusClimacus Shipmate
    I know someone whose brother has a friend who was with Johnson at Oxford (so the necessary cautions apply...); while intelligent, the buffoonery was clear to see back then apparently.

    I know this is Hell, but I wish you all well. The incompetence, and I say this as an Australian so I know what I speak, of your political rulers is staggering. I take it the political machine continues on, widows get their payments, teachers are paid etc? But still it must be very disheartening to see these supposed leaders, well, not leading. And time marches on...
  • Climacus wrote: »
    I know this is Hell, but I wish you all well. The incompetence, and I say this as an Australian so I know what I speak, of your political rulers is staggering. I take it the political machine continues on, widows get their payments, teachers are paid etc? But still it must be very disheartening to see these supposed leaders, well, not leading. And time marches on...

    Thank you for your comments.

    One of the real problems is that the leaders ate more and more hard-right, so widows get less and less payments, and have to prove their husbands are still dead. Teachers are paid but they then have to cover the lack of school funding from this (far too often).

    In the end, it is more than disheartening. It is hideous to see these people raping our country for their own benefit.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    Climacus wrote: »
    I know this is Hell, but I wish you all well. The incompetence, and I say this as an Australian so I know what I speak, of your political rulers is staggering. I take it the political machine continues on, widows get their payments, teachers are paid etc? But still it must be very disheartening to see these supposed leaders, well, not leading. And time marches on...

    Thank you for your comments.

    One of the real problems is that the leaders ate more and more hard-right, so widows get less and less payments, and have to prove their husbands are still dead. Teachers are paid but they then have to cover the lack of school funding from this (far too often).

    In the end, it is more than disheartening. It is hideous to see these people raping our country for their own benefit.

    They aren't merely incompetent, they are malign. And yet Treeza makes her weekly visits to church, the Foreign Secretary speaks up for persecuted Christians across the world, and so on.

    The country gets more like the US every day, God help us all.
  • Yes, I'm waiting for pro-life voices to emerge amongst the Brexiters.
  • Yes, I'm waiting for pro-life voices to emerge amongst the Brexiters.

    Emerge? Anne Widdecombe's already there, along with JRM.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited May 2019
    One of the 'newspapers' (I use the word loosely - I think it was the Sunday Distress) I saw in our corner-shop today (I averted my Gaze), seemed to be advocating the Obviously (but not yet Orange) Odious Oik Niggle G*r*age as The Saviour of the World, or at least the most suitable person to lead Ukland out of the Brexshit mess.

    Well, YMMV, but I'm stockpiling painkiller pills, and WHISKY. I bet I'm not the only one. They're just affordable now, but Niggle The Rubbish will doubtless make the cost prohibitive to all but the Fascist Elite (who will be delighted with their immunity to such feelings).

    Tell Mussolini that. I hope NG will enjoy being hung head downward from a lamp-post (am I allowed to say that, as we're in Hell, or its ante-chamber?)
    :grimace:

    Next Thursday's MEP elections in Ukland may (I hope) be positive...

  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    To be honest you would hardly know they are happening. The TV is not exactly covering it. There are few discussions, it is not talked about that much. I think because we don’t know where we are going to be a year or so from now people see little point in voting. I will vote. The don’t want the Farage party representing me.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Circus Host, 8th Day Host
    I understand the need to plan ahead, but won’t Scots’ whisky still be available? Scotland hasn’t left the UK for now…

    My French nationality application goes to the Post Office today.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    "la wrote:
    My French nationality application goes to the Post Office today.

    Good luck.

    I’m so pleased my son has German citizenship, it gives us all a feeling of security.

  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    And we have Canadian citizenship, and are thus all 'Citizens of Nowhere' in Treeza's vile Hitler-derived phrase. I'm buggered if I want to be a citizen of Brexitland.
  • sionisaissionisais Shipmate
    Martin54 wrote: »
    sionisais wrote: »
    Martin54 wrote: »
    Andras wrote: »
    Has this nation ever had a worse PM than the sanctimonious, two-faced, incompetent and deceitful person currently at No. 10?

    Well, I'd say Churchill is easily the bigger monster...

    By far. But he was OUR monster.

    The Welsh and the Scots won't agree with you still less the Australians and New Zealanders; memories of Gallipoli run deep and Canadians too, thanks to Vimy Ridge and the Dieppe fiasco.

    Aye. Why not the Scots?

    While he was MP for Dundee he called the troops out to break miners and transport workers strikes. The Welsh may hate him more, but by and large those who support Churchill to the hilt ignore everything other than WW2, and they are not from any part of the UK other than England.
  • Or they're Orange Order yoon types.
  • BarnabasBarnabas Shipmate Posts: 26
    Lots of speculation that as the democratic, according to the rules, no objections, vote of no confidence the Conservatives had before didn't give them the answer that they wanted they are going to change the rules and have another one asap. Presumably they won't need to have the actual vote as surely even Mrs May will accept the metaphorical whisky and revolver at that point?
  • CathscatsCathscats Shipmate
    You think? I wouldn't count on it.....
  • BarnabasBarnabas Shipmate Posts: 26
    Well... given the quality and number of candidates to follow her maybe she's still hanging on as a last service to the country
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    The Evening Standard has a report on Gove being nice about the coming WAB vote but questioning it. Saying let’s have the EU vote first and see. May is dead in the water
  • Barnabas wrote: »
    Lots of speculation that as the democratic, according to the rules, no objections, vote of no confidence the Conservatives had before didn't give them the answer that they wanted they are going to change the rules and have another one asap. Presumably they won't need to have the actual vote as surely even Mrs May will accept the metaphorical whisky and revolver at that point?

    She's already downed a bottle and a half and has been seen taking potshots at pigeons from the garden at no 10, while screaming "I've been absolutely clear about this, stop shitting on my fucking ROOF!"
This discussion has been closed.