But Trump´s go-to play will be to settle there and defy people to get him out, knowing that it will take months if not years to take the matter through the courts - with a good chance that he might actually win.
It'll cost him a lot of $$$, which he may not have, of course.
Still, the man has to live somewhere. Any suggestions as to which country might take him in? Brazil, maybe? Not Venezuela, I think...
It'll cost him a lot of $$$, which he may not have, of course.
He will have the umpty millions he raised to "challenge the vote" which, if he is in any way sentient, he will have stashed away in a place the legal authorities etc can't get to it. My guess would be an off-shore account, handled by Ivanka.
But Trump´s go-to play will be to settle there and defy people to get him out, knowing that it will take months if not years to take the matter through the courts - with a good chance that he might actually win.
It'll still cost him a lot of $$$, which he may have, of course.
Still, the man has to live somewhere. Any suggestions as to which country might take him in? Brazil, maybe? Not Venezuela, I think...
The scenario's a long-shot, but I think the country most likely to take him in would be Israel.
The current ruling-party loves him, and owes him big-time for recognizing Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, moving the embassy there, and getting a few Gulf princelings to recognize the country. Not to mention trashing the Iranian nuke deal.
Plus, Israel is widely propagandized in the USA as America's BFF Forever, so it would be politically tricky for the Democrats or anyone else to attack them for giving Trump refuge. Not impossible, but tricky, especially compared to the gift-wrapped box of chocolates that a Russian refuge would be.
I'm also taken to understand that Israel doesn't have an extradition treaty with the USA. Not to mention, it's culturally western enough for him to feel at home there.
Like I say, this is probably more fantasy than anything else, but if I were Trump, and I were seriously thinking of fleeing the USA, I would consider Israel my best bet.
I'm also taken to understand that Israel doesn't have an extradition treaty with the USA. Not to mention, it's culturally western enough for him to feel at home there.
I think he'd rapidly outstay his welcome, probably within 6 months he'd say something grotesquely anti-semitic. I'd guess at Holocaust denial.
I'm also taken to understand that Israel doesn't have an extradition treaty with the USA. Not to mention, it's culturally western enough for him to feel at home there.
I think he'd rapidly outstay his welcome, probably within 6 months he'd say something grotesquely anti-semitic. I'd guess at Holocaust denial.
I think he'd be smart enough not to do that. AFAIK, he's never said anything directly anti-semitic publically during his political career, so I don't think he'd start doing so in Israel.
The worst I could see is him mouthing some supposedly positive model-minority type stereotypes: "They love me here! Israelis appreciate a smart businessman!" Which wouldn't be a deal-breaker for a government that's been happy to ally with Xtian end-timers who support Israel just so it can be destroyed by the Antichrist and its unconverted citizens sent to hell.
(But yes, holocaust-denial would get him kicked out, or more likely arrested.)
I wasn't ever a big Arnie fan, but this is pretty stirring stuff.
I wonder if you've ever read his rebuke of the trolls who were ridiculing the Special Olympics a few years back. Very eloquent, and quite moving. I don't do links on my cellphone, but it's worth looking up.
I wasn't ever a big Arnie fan, but this is pretty stirring stuff.
He left out Black and brown people. And that's crucial error.
Jan 6 wasn't America's Kristallnacht. We've had multiple Kristallnachts during the Trump administration. Off the top of my head: the Muslim ban, family separation at the border and children in cages, police brutality during the protests in the wake of George Floyd's murder. Kristallnacht was a sharpening of the existing anti-Jewish hate in Germany, not a direct attack on German government. Jan 6 was closer to being our Beer Hall Putsch than our Kristallnacht.
He's right to draw a connection between Nazism and what's going on in the US right now, but he hasn't made that connection clear. German Nazis drew inspiration from American Jim Crow and racist anti-immigration laws. And now one of the driving factors in Trump's and other Republicans' efforts to remain in power is American racism; it's a feedback loop, in which they both incite and are fed by racism, without which they would not be able to maintain their minority rule.
I was startled to hear Schwartzenegger's 2004 praise of Nixon (from Wikipedia): "then I heard Nixon speak. He was talking about free enterprise, getting the government off your back, lowering the taxes and strengthening the military. Listening to Nixon speak sounded more like a breath of fresh air. I said to my friend, I said, "What party is he?" My friend said, "He's a Republican." I said, "Then I am a Republican."
Schwartzenegger may have been telling a true story, but his judgement is questionable to state his admiration of a criminal president.
My other reaction is, how nice, a movie star who's taken too many steroids rebukes a TV star who's used too much bronzer. Who raises Kristallnacht which was an anti-Jewish attack amidst an escalating bunch of violence. It's an in an in-ept comparison of events.
I'm sure he has made all kinds of mistakes; I disagree fundamentally with his politics and I agree regarding the better analogy with the beer-hall putsch, which I think Dafyd highlighted somewhere else. All the same, right down to the corny sword stuff, he's trying to appeal to sad men who like dressing up in combats and playing at being military, from their own side, and drawing some historical pictures for them from almost first-hand of how that can go wrong. At this moment, it's worth doing and I applaud him for it.
I wasn't ever a big Arnie fan, but this is pretty stirring stuff.
He left out Black and brown people. And that's crucial error.
Jan 6 wasn't America's Kristallnacht. We've had multiple Kristallnachts during the Trump administration. Off the top of my head: the Muslim ban, family separation at the border and children in cages, police brutality during the protests in the wake of George Floyd's murder. Kristallnacht was a sharpening of the existing anti-Jewish hate in Germany, not a direct attack on German government. Jan 6 was closer to being our Beer Hall Putsch than our Kristallnacht.
He's right to draw a connection between Nazism and what's going on in the US right now, but he hasn't made that connection clear. German Nazis drew inspiration from American Jim Crow and racist anti-immigration laws. And now one of the driving factors in Trump's and other Republicans' efforts to remain in power is American racism; it's a feedback loop, in which they both incite and are fed by racism, without which they would not be able to maintain their minority rule.
I agree that those are all bad things, but what Kristallnacht had that they did not was that Kristallnacht was the hoi polloi taking things into their own hands and doing their evil idol's violent work.
I agree that those are all bad things, but what Kristallnacht had that they did not was that Kristallnacht was the hoi polloi taking things into their own hands and doing their evil idol's violent work.
Goebbels needed a chance to improve his standing in the eyes of Hitler. At 1:20 am on 10 November 1938, Reinhard Heydrich sent an urgent secret telegram to the Sicherheitspolizei (Security Police; SiPo) and the Sturmabteilung (SA), containing instructions regarding the riots. This included guidelines for the protection of foreigners and non-Jewish businesses and property. Police were instructed not to interfere with the riots unless the guidelines were violated. Police were also instructed to seize Jewish archives from synagogues and community offices, and to arrest and detain "healthy male Jews, who are not too old", for eventual transfer to (labor) concentration camps.
[ Heinrich ] Müller, in a message to SA and SS commanders, stated the "most extreme measures" were to be taken against Jewish people.
The idea that Kristallnacht was a spontaneous and unprompted outpouring of rage from the angry Volk was an invention of Nazi propaganda. Don't spread Nazi propaganda.
But Trump´s go-to play will be to settle there and defy people to get him out, knowing that it will take months if not years to take the matter through the courts - with a good chance that he might actually win.
It'll cost him a lot of $$$, which he may not have, of course.
Still, the man has to live somewhere. Any suggestions as to which country might take him in? Brazil, maybe? Not Venezuela, I think...
My nomination Beaumont or Clinton. Clinton would be poetic justice.
But Trump´s go-to play will be to settle there and defy people to get him out, knowing that it will take months if not years to take the matter through the courts - with a good chance that he might actually win.
It'll cost him a lot of $$$, which he may not have, of course.
Still, the man has to live somewhere. Any suggestions as to which country might take him in? Brazil, maybe? Not Venezuela, I think...
My nomination Beaumont or Clinton. Clinton would be poetic justice.
I agree that those are all bad things, but what Kristallnacht had that they did not was that Kristallnacht was the hoi polloi taking things into their own hands and doing their evil idol's violent work.
Goebbels needed a chance to improve his standing in the eyes of Hitler. At 1:20 am on 10 November 1938, Reinhard Heydrich sent an urgent secret telegram to the Sicherheitspolizei (Security Police; SiPo) and the Sturmabteilung (SA), containing instructions regarding the riots. This included guidelines for the protection of foreigners and non-Jewish businesses and property. Police were instructed not to interfere with the riots unless the guidelines were violated. Police were also instructed to seize Jewish archives from synagogues and community offices, and to arrest and detain "healthy male Jews, who are not too old", for eventual transfer to (labor) concentration camps.
[ Heinrich ] Müller, in a message to SA and SS commanders, stated the "most extreme measures" were to be taken against Jewish people.
The idea that Kristallnacht was a spontaneous and unprompted outpouring of rage from the angry Volk was an invention of Nazi propaganda. Don't spread Nazi propaganda.
I accept correction on its origins. You're missing my main point though. Kristallnacht was a widely distributed action by many citizens, not a political action by one or two citizens.
And if you think the Trump white house had nothing to do with Wednesday's insurrection, I have some swamp land you might be interested in.
It's not a widely known fact, but the U.S. has possession of several uninhabited islands in the Pacific. Maybe Trump could be convinced to be appointed Governor of Jarvis Island. Just tell him it's a bunch of beachfront property he can have all to himself. It was acquired, appropriately enough, under the Guano Islands Act of 1856.
Or maybe my past idea that he and Vladimir Putin can retire to a dacha country house together. They can continue whatever their relationship is. I hope Melania divorces T--and, seeing she's from Slovenia, I doubt she'd want to hang out with P, anyway. P divorced, several years back. Don't know if he's with anyone.
But T and P can live happily in their dacha, and the world can be happier without them.
Maybe the Scottish Government would make an exception to their travel ban to allow him to be left there? It's even technically part of the same authority as his ancestral home.
I did mean like Sealand, not actual Sealand. Rockall is basically uninhabitable, so I rejected it. Did wonder about St Kilda. Perhaps too bumpy for a golf course, though.
Surely the US has a supply of such places? Isn't there an island near San Francisco that might do?
I'm sure the New York City district attorney would be happy to escort him...even if it meant rowing T over himself. (Though there'd probably be plenty of volunteers.)
IMVHO, though: It's such a nightmarish, abusive, evil place. I hate to think of anyone going there--even T.
Yeah, but he might spit in the subway, or jaywalk, or litter, or violate some other city ordinance. And no need for a rowboat -- Rikers is connected to the mainland via a bridge.
Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell has told colleagues that he believes Trump committed impeachable offenses, according to the New York Times. McConnell has also said he is glad the House is moving forward with impeachment because he thinks it will make it easier to push Trump out of the Republican party.
Is that the sound of a plank being pushed out beyond the gunwales of the good ship GOP?
It gets rid of him as a problem in '24 if successful, and stops him splitting the right-wing vote by standing as an independent. Maybe it took them a few days to sniff the wind and judge whether another splitter was likely to step up and try to ride the MAGA base? Maybe they're hoping what looks like the forthcoming legal spectacle, rounding up all the level 1 schmucks, is going to pull the base back in line and put the genie back where he belongs?
The Democrats would be helping the Republicans by ensuring trump can never stand again. How does it give any advantage to the Dems? If they let the crimes of everyone be dealt with by the justice system with no interference (and NO pardons!) they can point back to this time forever saying "this is how the party of power acted - they elected, then protected a monster for four years and their misplaced 'loyalty' wouldn't let them help eject him for the good of the nation until even McConnell and Pence noticed how criminally corrupt and uncaring for anyone or anything else he is."
Isn't a big part of the problem here that people were/are thinking "How does this help me?" and not "How does this help the USA?"? Democrats should do what helps the country in the long haul. It could, of course, be argued that helping the Republicans is bad for the USA in the long haul.
I don't disagree at all but accept that helping the enablers of this monster remove the possibility of their future vote being split doesn't help the nation IMO.
...which would allow the possibility of 4 more years of this crap, down the road. The Democrats in Congress can't control the legal system, but they might be able to protect all of us from T Nightmarish Presidency 2.0.
ETA: This was in response to Furtive Gander's post that starts with "The Democrats would be helping the Republicans".
I have to admit there is a small chance of trump coming back but the Rep hierarchy won't want him especially after the most recent events and and with social media dumping him and big business witholding the cash and his crimes and debts being uncovered over the next three/four years, how can he come through? There may still be small town supporters but letting them split the Rep vote (like a mirror of Sanders or Nader splitting the centre/left)* it looks good to me.
*Yes, I'm probably remembering it all wrong!
ETA: Yes send a message not to be tooo efficient in catching anyone involved (eg trespass in Capitol with no threats to anyone) but anyone who committed serious crimes, like threatening a Congressperson or staff or police expecially anyone who is a 'leader' type in their community - let the bastards rot in jail and never be allowed to hold office.
The Republican establishment didn't want him the first time around, but it didn't make a damn bit of difference because he kicked their asses anyway, and now none of them would stand a chance against him.
Maybe I'm looking this from too far away. And maybe being sensible is a lot to expect from them. I'd assumed that while many of us thought trump was a disaster and a disgrace, some people considered him good and popular (unaccountably, he was!) with a few rough edges - and now their eyes have been opened so they can see the truth like we always could! Is this too optimistic?
I'm assuming when ousted the law and his creditors will catch up with him and so will his health. Is this too optimistic? I'm still assuming that big companies which are currently witholding party funding will continue to do so while the party welcomes trump. Is this too optimistic? Will Twitter et al welcome him back and apologise? Maybe but he'd need become popular again before they risk it.
The 'small town voters' bit I accept was going too far.
I don't think it's possible to over-state the very real danger facing the USA at the moment. True, the impeachment of Trump might be considered a side-show but it would also send two powerful messages:
First, that the office of the presidency doesn't offer a blank cheque for the individual occupying it to behave in ways that are criminal or traitorous; no one man, however popular, can be allowed to ride rough-shod over the rule of law, even if supported by a gun-toting mob.
Second, that those elected on a party ticket must be expected to exercise their authority to act to bring down someone, even of their own party, if they act against the laws and good governance of the country; anyone elected to public office must act for the good of the whole populace, putting country above party.
Trump didn't start the dangerous disconnect between millions of voters and the people who govern them and make their laws - that began at least 30 years ago. And for the past 30+ years, with a handful of exceptions, there has built up a toxic tradition or one party regarding the other as illegitimate. In the Republican party in particular, there has evolved a widely held and expressed belief that members of the Democratic party have no right to hold power or govern. But what Mr Trump has done is take this below surface toxic sense of grievance and entitlement and bring it to the surface, relentlessly nurturing and feeding it until it has become a movement in it's own right - Trumpism.
The actions (or lack of them) by law officers all around the USA when confronted by demonstrations or heavily-armed groups or self-proclaimed militias in recent years has been not only disgraceful but extremely dangerous. The words and actions of senators and congressmen giving de facto support, and thus legitimacy, by quoting the Second Amendment has been misguided at best and potentially catastrophic in the long-term.
Pious talk from Biden and others about healing wounds is nothing but dangerous hot-air, despised and/or ignored by a sizeable number of citizens who see him as akin to a communist and his removal as a grail-like pursuit.
These people are not going to go away. Ignoring them is no longer an option. For the good of the country now, and in hopes of diverting potential long-term domestic unrest on an unprecedented scale, the militias, racists, holocaust deniers and anti-democrats must be tackled head-on, starting with the totem at the head of them - Trump.
Comments
It'll cost him a lot of $$$, which he may not have, of course.
Still, the man has to live somewhere. Any suggestions as to which country might take him in? Brazil, maybe? Not Venezuela, I think...
Solution: Don't let extra people in; cut off food deliveries, power* and water; wait til he comes out; don't let him back.
ETA: * and internet!
He will have the umpty millions he raised to "challenge the vote" which, if he is in any way sentient, he will have stashed away in a place the legal authorities etc can't get to it. My guess would be an off-shore account, handled by Ivanka.
The scenario's a long-shot, but I think the country most likely to take him in would be Israel.
The current ruling-party loves him, and owes him big-time for recognizing Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, moving the embassy there, and getting a few Gulf princelings to recognize the country. Not to mention trashing the Iranian nuke deal.
Plus, Israel is widely propagandized in the USA as America's BFF Forever, so it would be politically tricky for the Democrats or anyone else to attack them for giving Trump refuge. Not impossible, but tricky, especially compared to the gift-wrapped box of chocolates that a Russian refuge would be.
I'm also taken to understand that Israel doesn't have an extradition treaty with the USA. Not to mention, it's culturally western enough for him to feel at home there.
Like I say, this is probably more fantasy than anything else, but if I were Trump, and I were seriously thinking of fleeing the USA, I would consider Israel my best bet.
I think he'd rapidly outstay his welcome, probably within 6 months he'd say something grotesquely anti-semitic. I'd guess at Holocaust denial.
I think he'd be smart enough not to do that. AFAIK, he's never said anything directly anti-semitic publically during his political career, so I don't think he'd start doing so in Israel.
The worst I could see is him mouthing some supposedly positive model-minority type stereotypes: "They love me here! Israelis appreciate a smart businessman!" Which wouldn't be a deal-breaker for a government that's been happy to ally with Xtian end-timers who support Israel just so it can be destroyed by the Antichrist and its unconverted citizens sent to hell.
(But yes, holocaust-denial would get him kicked out, or more likely arrested.)
Republicans impeach for erections but not for insurrections.
I wonder if you've ever read his rebuke of the trolls who were ridiculing the Special Olympics a few years back. Very eloquent, and quite moving. I don't do links on my cellphone, but it's worth looking up.
He left out Black and brown people. And that's crucial error.
Jan 6 wasn't America's Kristallnacht. We've had multiple Kristallnachts during the Trump administration. Off the top of my head: the Muslim ban, family separation at the border and children in cages, police brutality during the protests in the wake of George Floyd's murder. Kristallnacht was a sharpening of the existing anti-Jewish hate in Germany, not a direct attack on German government. Jan 6 was closer to being our Beer Hall Putsch than our Kristallnacht.
He's right to draw a connection between Nazism and what's going on in the US right now, but he hasn't made that connection clear. German Nazis drew inspiration from American Jim Crow and racist anti-immigration laws. And now one of the driving factors in Trump's and other Republicans' efforts to remain in power is American racism; it's a feedback loop, in which they both incite and are fed by racism, without which they would not be able to maintain their minority rule.
Schwartzenegger may have been telling a true story, but his judgement is questionable to state his admiration of a criminal president.
My other reaction is, how nice, a movie star who's taken too many steroids rebukes a TV star who's used too much bronzer. Who raises Kristallnacht which was an anti-Jewish attack amidst an escalating bunch of violence. It's an in an in-ept comparison of events.
I agree that those are all bad things, but what Kristallnacht had that they did not was that Kristallnacht was the hoi polloi taking things into their own hands and doing their evil idol's violent work.
Ummm . . .
The idea that Kristallnacht was a spontaneous and unprompted outpouring of rage from the angry Volk was an invention of Nazi propaganda. Don't spread Nazi propaganda.
My nomination Beaumont or Clinton. Clinton would be poetic justice.
And Clinton has a beautiful wall! He'd love it.
I accept correction on its origins. You're missing my main point though. Kristallnacht was a widely distributed action by many citizens, not a political action by one or two citizens.
And if you think the Trump white house had nothing to do with Wednesday's insurrection, I have some swamp land you might be interested in.
Good choices @Penny S , though I suspect the Regent of Sealand might object...
...and there doesn't appear to be enough space on Sealand for a golf course...
Perhaps he could take up water polo?
It's not a widely known fact, but the U.S. has possession of several uninhabited islands in the Pacific. Maybe Trump could be convinced to be appointed Governor of Jarvis Island. Just tell him it's a bunch of beachfront property he can have all to himself. It was acquired, appropriately enough, under the Guano Islands Act of 1856.
I thought of Sealand, too, but I'd hate for T to take it over. Maybe set up something similar elsewhere?
But T and P can live happily in their dacha, and the world can be happier without them.
Amen.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XhszR52lVyY
Maybe the Scottish Government would make an exception to their travel ban to allow him to be left there? It's even technically part of the same authority as his ancestral home.
Surely the US has a supply of such places? Isn't there an island near San Francisco that might do?
This is a problem why?
I'm sure the New York City district attorney would be happy to escort him...even if it meant rowing T over himself. (Though there'd probably be plenty of volunteers.)
IMVHO, though: It's such a nightmarish, abusive, evil place. I hate to think of anyone going there--even T.
Is that the sound of a plank being pushed out beyond the gunwales of the good ship GOP?
It gets rid of him as a problem in '24 if successful, and stops him splitting the right-wing vote by standing as an independent. Maybe it took them a few days to sniff the wind and judge whether another splitter was likely to step up and try to ride the MAGA base? Maybe they're hoping what looks like the forthcoming legal spectacle, rounding up all the level 1 schmucks, is going to pull the base back in line and put the genie back where he belongs?
ETA: This was in response to Furtive Gander's post that starts with "The Democrats would be helping the Republicans".
*Yes, I'm probably remembering it all wrong!
ETA: Yes send a message not to be tooo efficient in catching anyone involved (eg trespass in Capitol with no threats to anyone) but anyone who committed serious crimes, like threatening a Congressperson or staff or police expecially anyone who is a 'leader' type in their community - let the bastards rot in jail and never be allowed to hold office.
Ummm...why in the world are you assuming that the Republican hierarchy and Congressional Republicans would act sensibly about anything, let alone T?
Why are you assuming that T's base will be diminished to "small town voters"? You think this is over? And BTW the US has *lots* of small towns.
I'm assuming when ousted the law and his creditors will catch up with him and so will his health. Is this too optimistic? I'm still assuming that big companies which are currently witholding party funding will continue to do so while the party welcomes trump. Is this too optimistic? Will Twitter et al welcome him back and apologise? Maybe but he'd need become popular again before they risk it.
The 'small town voters' bit I accept was going too far.
First, that the office of the presidency doesn't offer a blank cheque for the individual occupying it to behave in ways that are criminal or traitorous; no one man, however popular, can be allowed to ride rough-shod over the rule of law, even if supported by a gun-toting mob.
Second, that those elected on a party ticket must be expected to exercise their authority to act to bring down someone, even of their own party, if they act against the laws and good governance of the country; anyone elected to public office must act for the good of the whole populace, putting country above party.
Trump didn't start the dangerous disconnect between millions of voters and the people who govern them and make their laws - that began at least 30 years ago. And for the past 30+ years, with a handful of exceptions, there has built up a toxic tradition or one party regarding the other as illegitimate. In the Republican party in particular, there has evolved a widely held and expressed belief that members of the Democratic party have no right to hold power or govern. But what Mr Trump has done is take this below surface toxic sense of grievance and entitlement and bring it to the surface, relentlessly nurturing and feeding it until it has become a movement in it's own right - Trumpism.
The actions (or lack of them) by law officers all around the USA when confronted by demonstrations or heavily-armed groups or self-proclaimed militias in recent years has been not only disgraceful but extremely dangerous. The words and actions of senators and congressmen giving de facto support, and thus legitimacy, by quoting the Second Amendment has been misguided at best and potentially catastrophic in the long-term.
Pious talk from Biden and others about healing wounds is nothing but dangerous hot-air, despised and/or ignored by a sizeable number of citizens who see him as akin to a communist and his removal as a grail-like pursuit.
These people are not going to go away. Ignoring them is no longer an option. For the good of the country now, and in hopes of diverting potential long-term domestic unrest on an unprecedented scale, the militias, racists, holocaust deniers and anti-democrats must be tackled head-on, starting with the totem at the head of them - Trump.